Army Organization

[morvael]

I wonder if you could share optimal force composition hints, I think manual lacks something in that department.

Usually if you create divisions what elements go into them? How much artillery? Do you ever include cavalry into regular divisions or form cavalry divisions or let them move alone? What support units do you put in every army/corps/division?

I try to put sharpshooters, engineers, medical, signal and balloon in every strong corps and this means a corps with 2-4 divisions with power between 280-400.

What is the strength of city garrisons that you prefer? 1 or 2 militia units?

[GShock]

Good idea, i'm interested in knowing that too, i've been searching for long.

Actually i found a very detailed history debriefing here but nothing so far mentioned on the exact composition of armies/corps/divisions. http://www.historynet.com/magazines/american_civil_war/3028476.html?page=1&c=y

As of the manual, no manual can tell you what to do do but it tells you how to do it whatever you want to do.

[Jabberwock]

I wonder if you could share optimal force composition hints, I think manual lacks something in that department.

Usually if you create divisions what elements go into them? How much artillery? Do you ever include cavalry into regular divisions or form cavalry divisions or let them move alone? What support units do you put in every army/corps/division?

I try to put sharpshooters, engineers, medical, signal and balloon in every strong corps and this means a corps with 2-4 divisions with power between 280-400.

What is the strength of city garrisons that you prefer? 1 or 2 militia units?

I usually put 4-8 artillery into each division, depending on what is available. I try to put two cavalry into one division in each corps to act as scouts; the rest are organized into semi-independent divisions / corps, or independent units outside the army command structure.

A sharpshooter and a marine or sailor in each division is an effective combination.

One medical and engineer per corps is also good. I give the worst division leader all the support units. If you give the army commander an ADC, then put a signal and balloon into a corps' support division you can add an extra division to that corps with no command penalty.

My preference for moderately important garrisons is two militia bound together, with a cheap artillery so that they can do some serious entrenchment. Less important garrisons are one militia. Of course, I adjust based on the opponents style, strategy, and tactics . . .

[Rafiki]

Why put the support units into divisions at all? They don't cost any CP and take up space that combat elements could fill instead?

Also makes it more difficult to keep track of them and administrate, I'd think?

[Jabberwock]

Why put the support units into divisions at all? They don't cost any CP and take up space that combat elements could fill instead?

Also makes it more difficult to keep track of them and administrate, I'd think?

If they are in a division, especially a division that has a marine or sailor, they tend to not slow the whole corps down as much. I can drop off the supply wagons and get to where I need to be, then let supply catch up.

EDIT: The emphasis on speed over strength has cost me dearly in one PBEM, but overall it works for the way I play.

[morvael]

Thanks for the info, I think such thread could be very useful to new players (like myself).

4-8 artillery - that much? It seems I was relying too much on infantry brigades and put only 1 artillery per division!

However I think it's better to save the ability to create a division (as they are limited) for line troops and let the support units be attached directly to corps.

What is ADC?

[Jabberwock]

Thanks for the info, I think such thread could be very useful to new players (like myself).

4-8 artillery - that much? It seems I was relying too much on infantry brigades and put only 1 artillery per division!

However I think it's better to save the ability to create a division (as they are limited) for line troops and let the support units be attached directly to corps.

What is ADC?

Eight artillery may be a little much, due to frontage limitations. I'm not sure. Unsupported infantry will have trouble getting to a range where they are effective.

I believe that is what my opponent was doing in the PBEM I mentioned where I had so much trouble. Attaching support to corps. He was very good at building powerful entrenched positions fast. It negated my mobility advantage. He clearly had a lot of experience, and was good at guessing where I was going to attack.

Aide-de-camp (a 4-1-1 * who doesn't command anything, just sits in the army stack)

[morvael]

Interesting I didn't know an additional * general will increase the CP in subordinate corps. Will 3-1-1 be enough? I don't see many 4-1-1 around...

What size are your divisions (maximum power)?

[Jabberwock]

Interesting I didn't know an additional * general will increase the CP in subordinate corps. Will 3-1-1 be enough? I don't see many 4-1-1 around...

What size are your divisions (maximum power)?

Has to have a 4 strat, an ideal use for a 4-0-0 if you are using randomization.

Max is usually about 550. I've seen it go over 600. A typical full (18-element) division is about 400. I try to give the best leaders a full complement of the best troops, but spread the elites around so each division has at least one.

[morvael]

Was this described somewhere in the manual or is this secret knowledge? If you know more hints like this one, please share them on the wiki.

[samwise]

Having planned only a short while and scanning the forums, it seems that field artillery is a key component in any military buildup. While they are very expensive, it seems that dollar for dollar, it makes sense for each side to build significant artillery, in conjunction with ample infantry, as opposed to rarely building artillery and relying on infantry.

Does this make sense? Your thoughts would be appreciated.

[morvael]

I think that newbies are fooled by the power factor displayed next to each unit. Why would you pay so much for artillery with power 20 while on the other hand you can have an infantry brigade with power 60-100? The synergy effect (additional bonuses when you join infantry with artillery) should be shown by the game somehow because otherwise rookie players will only try to maximize the power factor as I did.

[samwise]

Does there exist any discussion either in the Manual, the Wiki or this forum that discusses the attributes of combined arms to give an indication of optimum force organization. While it is intuitive to group cavalery, artillery and infantry, it would be helpful to understand the game dynamics on this.

[morvael]

Exactly, I second that request - newbies need a tutorial on force composition, not only the mechanics (that is included) but also on the various bonuses that come from combining arms in proper proportions

[Toten]

Someone posted a while back that the optimal TOE of a division is 3 arty, 2 cav with the rest being Inf. Not sure if this is entirely correct but that is what I try to do.

[Jabberwock]

Was this described somewhere in the manual or is this secret knowledge? If you know more hints like this one, please share them on the wiki.

From the manual, page 22:

The CP's generated by leaders can be further increased by the following bonuses:

...

Units in the region are part of a Corps and Army Headquarters which includes a capable Aide de Camp (i.e. A non-Army commander leader in an Army Stack that has a Strategic Rating of 4+): 1

It is on the Wiki here.

The wording could stand to be cleaned up a bit, and Command-Chain bonuses should be a separate heading, not part of Out-of-Command-Chain Penalty.

[Rafiki]

The wording could stand to be cleaned up a bit, and CP bonuses should be a separate section, not part of Out-of-Command-Chain Penalty.

Do feel free to do so

[Jabberwock]

Do feel free to do so

On my way out the door. I can get it tonight if nobody does in the meantime.

[Stuie]

Nice timing with this thread. I was coming here this morning to ask about building divisions/corps/armies.

Thanks for the answers!

[Nial]

4-8 arty per div? Wow........thats alot of cannon. I usually go for 1 arty, 1 sharp, and 1 cav in each div. Then add one or two of each per corp. Rest is inf. Independent cav div.s where needed as well. But then I usually play CSA, and we don't have alot of cannon in the south you all.

Nial

[Jabberwock]

I re-read that section of the manual prior to making a wiki change. Does the ADC only affect corps which are in the same region as the Army HQ? Anybody know?

[morvael]

Jabberwock, do you count those artillery elements in big infantry brigades too? With them it would be easier to get to those 4-8 batteries.

Nial, thanks to your post I have realized that sharpshooters need to be in the division, I was confused with unit/stack designations.

I wonder if the devs could make it possible for the corps and army commanders to be able to merge those support units like signal & medical into them. It would reduce the clutter in the list and would allow for easier checking of corp's status. That would use the same mechanism as divisions while not counting as one, just to reduce the horde of unit boxes in the list, maybe this could be done with just small & simple additions to the game code?

[Jagger]

If you look at the terrain frontage limitations, in most terrain you can use one artillery element per three infantry elements. So for every 12 infantry regiments, 4 artillery batteries is ideal in typical battlefield terrain.

I try to have a sharpshooter in every division. I also try to have an engineer and medical unit in every corps.

[Jabberwock]

Jabberwock, do you count those artillery elements in big infantry brigades too? With them it would be easier to get to those 4-8 batteries.

Nial, thanks to your post I have realized that sharpshooters need to be in the division, I was confused with unit/stack designations.

I wonder if the devs could make it possible for the corps and army commanders to be able to merge those support units like signal & medical into them. It would reduce the clutter in the list and would allow for easier checking of corp's status. That would use the same mechanism as divisions while not counting as one, just to reduce the horde of unit boxes in the list, maybe this could be done with just small & simple additions to the game code?

Absolutely, they count. They show up as individual elements in the division.
But wait . . .

[Jabberwock]

If you look at the terrain frontage limitations, in most terrain you can use one artillery element per three infantry elements. So for every 12 infantry regiments, 4 artillery batteries is ideal in typical battlefield terrain.

I try to have a sharpshooter in every division. I also try to have an engineer and medical unit in every corps.

So, it would never make sense to have more than four artillery in a single division. Thank you.

BTW - Where can I find frontage information?

[Jagger]

quota = 130

means 130 points of travel of line troops. For example if a line infantry takes 30 days to travel in the region, it takes 30 points from the quota.

OffCost is a coefficient to apply if in offensive to the quota.

I will check this supply potential problem this week and report back.

Above is a Pocus explanation of how OFFCost and Combat_Unit_Cost and Support_Unit_Cost determine frontage limits from the Terrain files.

Basically you divide the Combat_Unit_Cost or Support_Unit_Cost from the terrain files by the movement cost of the unit. There is a percentage modifier, OFFCost, if a unit is on offense. I did the calculations and came up with the 3:1 ratio for common battlefield terrain.

There is nothing wrong with having more artillery or infantry units than the number indicated by frontage limitations. If too many units are available for frontage limitations, then the excess will enter battle if any of the first units retreat or rout. However for max efficiency in number of formations, meeting the terrain frontage limitations makes sense.

[Rafiki]

"Strong morale" is also a unit binus, isn't it? I try to have at least one "strong morale" element in each division, especially the ones that are expected to see heavy fighting.

[Sheytan]

depends on what size brigades you have, if I have heavy brigades +5 elements I will use 2, these typically also have cav or artillery as a element, then I will add a additional cav, and 3 artillery, if available I will also add a skirmisher. If I still have room left, more artillery. these are powerful divisions. if the brigades only have 3 elements I will use 4 of these 3 artillery, cav and skirmisher. the idea is to fill out your TO&E for the division, but ideally you want a mix of units to maintain combined arms.

Someone posted a while back that the optimal TOE of a division is 3 arty, 2 cav with the rest being Inf. Not sure if this is entirely correct but that is what I try to do.

[anarchyintheuk]

My $.02 which repeats alot of what was said above:

Each div has one of the big brigades w/ organic artillery and cav as a base and add a sharpshooter. Fill the rest w/ infantry and maybe 1-2 arty. Never add cavalry. IMO cav is too expensive, doesn't have enough firepower and is ineffective in anything other than clear terrain to keep in combined divs. One cav reg per div is enough. Spread your elite units (high morale attribute) one for each div. Keep the big 7 element CSA brigades separate and don't use them in a division.

Organize separate cav divs for raiding/chasing raiders or stuffing in army hqs. They're easy to detach and you don't lose that much combat power. Still undecided whether or not to put sharpshooters in them. Usually add horse arty and gatling guns (if I'm union).

Each corps has a marine, medical and engineer unit. Add signal/balloon units if needed.

W/ good army commanders I form them like another corps addng signal and balloon units to increase the cp rating. Bad army commanders I tend to strip down to maybe 1 div or so. Sometimes I'll form a division or two of arty under one of the arty attribute commanders and keep one w/ the each of the major armies in the east and west.

[Nial]

Absolutely, they count. They show up as individual elements in the division.
But wait . . .

Ahhh......that makes more sense. Thought you meant 4-8 stand alone arty batts. I was refering to independent arty batts. *smile* Was wondering how you afforded that much Arty. *chuckle*

On elite's: I like to have elite div's. More of a flavor thing than any tactical reason. 2 elite bgde's together with some decent filler units. I use them as shock troops. ( think Imperial guard) Not sure how historic it is. Or how effective. But it's what I do. *smile*

Nial