Confusing battle result

[ohms_law]

Um...

[ATTACH]31236[/ATTACH]

Hwha?

[Gray Fox]

The side that withdraws from battle is treated as defeated by the program. So I'm guessing that Breckinridge withdrew.

[Highlandcharge]

Also depends on strength of stance the forces where set to, retreat if engaged etc.

How many rounds did the battle last for?

[ohms_law]

I think that it was because I had two forces moving into Clarksville that turn... they should have gotten there several days apart, though.
humm.

[ohms_law]

Also depends on strength of stance the forces where set to, retreat if engaged etc.

How many rounds did the battle last for?

1 round.

And both forces were set to O/O, neither was trying to avoid battle or anything like that. I expected to crush Thomas' Corps with my 1000+ power Army from one side and 300+ power division from another.

[ohms_law]

Here's the battle log:

[ATTACH]31238[/ATTACH]

The end of it:

Code: Select all

10:46:26 AM  (Reporting)  Battle in 579 Montgomery, TN Day: 3 Round: 1
10:46:26 AM  (Reporting)  1007115 G. Thomas' Corps new target is 1010176 J. Breckinridge' Force
10:46:26 AM  (Reporting)  Commit Chance 1011099 Iron Bde 35 %, Rolled: 61 Not commited
10:46:26 AM  (Reporting)  Checking combat stance for United States of America in region 579 Montgomery, TN
10:46:26 AM  (Reporting)  Stack: 1007115 G. Thomas' Corps is routing automatically.
10:46:26 AM  (Reporting)  Stack: 1007115 G. Thomas' Corps is routing
10:46:26 AM  (Reporting)  Auto retreat triggered, TotalHits remaining:  140 Avg Cohesion%:  87 Base AutoRet%:  20 Hits taken:  90
10:46:26 AM  (Reporting)  Auto retreat: Hits received altered by the CiC's ROE retreat will 1007887 George H. Thomas 100
10:46:26 AM  (Reporting)  Group 1011099 Iron Bde faction losses reached Auto retreat level, retreat is automatic
10:46:26 AM  (Reporting)  Iron Bde succeeded in retreating
10:46:26 AM  (Reporting)  Iron Bde will take 2 hits while retreating (though no hits can be done on round 0)
10:46:26 AM  (Reporting)  Group 1011099 Iron Bde has called off offensive Montgomery, TN
10:46:26 AM  (Reporting)  Group 1007115 G. Thomas' Corps is routed, retreat is automatic
10:46:26 AM  (Reporting)  G. Thomas' Corps succeeded in retreating
10:46:26 AM  (Reporting)  G. Thomas' Corps will take 8 hits while retreating (though no hits can be done on round 0)
10:46:26 AM  (Reporting)  Group 1007115 G. Thomas' Corps has called off offensive Montgomery, TN
10:46:26 AM  (Reporting)  Checking combat stance for Confederate States of America in region 579 Montgomery, TN
10:46:26 AM  (Reporting)  No need to retreat from this battle (enemy at 0 power).


So, Thomas' Corps retreated after all...
And, according to the report:
[ATTACH]31239[/ATTACH]
So, now I'm even more confused.

[Highlandcharge]

Was Brekinridge activated? that van make a big difference...

[ohms_law]

He had to be, since he moved into the region and initiated combat... right?
I use the advanced activation option, so I wouldn't know if he were activated ahead of time.
(or rather, the "Veteran option", I guess. Always see leaders as activated.)

[Highlandcharge]

I don't think Brekinridge is active, the battle report says he is in a defensive posture, he would have switched to attack because he was moving into an enemy controlled region, Thomas is definitely active, he is in an attacking posture...

Thats just my take, I might be wrong, anybody else got any thoughts?

[ArmChairGeneral]

Activation and Posture do not affect the retreat threshold IIRC. Orders affect the retreat-decision threshold, but both sides were under */O orders, so should have normal retreat thresholds. Activation status might modify the actual roll to succeed at retreating, but Breckinridge would need to order the retreat in the first place and I don't see any reason retreat would be triggered under these conditions: he is delivering a serious butt-kicking to Thomas.

ohms_law,
Do you have a screenie with the whole battle report? Specifically was the Iron Brigade under Breckinridge or Thomas? If it was the Confederates, and it was loose in a stack and not attached to a division, it is possible that Thomas' unit(s) targeted the Iron Brigade, and the hits were thus applied a brigade's worth of elements rather than spread out over a division's worth, and the concentrated damage was enough to rout it. Routing units can trigger retreat checks even if other conditions are not met (they can cause you to retreat from an otherwise won battle).

Retreat rolls are made at the beginning of each round, so it is possible that at the beginning of the next round Thomas carried out his auto-retreat, and Breckinridge simultaneously succeeded at a (non-automatic) retreat roll triggered by the routing Iron Brigade from the previous round. The battle log is not entirely clear on how/when the various types of retreat checks occur (and I am not even sure that the log is written in sequential order; sometimes entries occur that seem reflect events that happen below it in the log).

If both sides retreat at the beginning of the same round, "victory" conditions and results become murky. Supposedly it would be a draw, but I have seen strange outcomes happen in situations like these.

If the Iron Bde was Union, then who knows. I have seen seemingly inexplicable "defeats" like this fairly often, even when the battle was overwhelmingly in my favor (and just as many inexplicable "victories"). I am even willing to speculate that the victory/defeat mechanism is not working 100% correctly in edge-cases. Sometimes the stack behavior does not match the "winner" either, I have seen stacks retreat from the region when victorious and stay put when defeated.

VP, NM and promotions are only awarded for victories, so ohms-law was robbed of any benefits due his overwhelming victory, something that has happened to me many times.

[ohms_law]

I went on to the next turn already, but I can go back and check it later.
The Iron Brigade is the principal component of Thomas' Corps, though. It's a brigade under Rufus King's command. They're Half out of supply now, surrounded by my Army of Tennessee and a couple of division sized "independent" forces, so I'm pretty sure that I'm about the administer the coup-de-gras. Still, you're right; I shoulda had that extra point of NM.

[havi]

have to say that breckinbridge have a great looking mustache... im jealous

[CajunNavy]

I have seen seemingly inexplicable "defeats" like this fairly often, even when the battle was overwhelmingly in my favor (and just as many inexplicable "victories"). I am even willing to speculate that the victory/defeat mechanism is not working 100% correctly in edge-cases. Sometimes the stack behavior does not match the "winner" either, I have seen stacks retreat from the region when victorious and stay put when defeated.

I have seen this behavior also. As a nubie I figured something might be wrong with me. But maybe the victory/defeat mechanism is not working 100% correctly.

[ArmChairGeneral]

Iron Bde was Union, not Confederate. So much for that theory then.