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Kensai
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Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:23 am

Moriety,
I have never played Vicky 1 but your mileage may vary. I've seen players (including myself) that are enjoying Vicky 2 immensely. It's just different. I like the economic micromanagement but I agree though, perhaps Vicky 1 was just different and the players expected the sequel to follow the steps of the first iteration.

makotech222,

so you abandon the game because you don't know how to select multiple units with the CTRL button or use disembark? I believe you are a little bit harsh here. Moreover, trust me, most of the "bugs" reported are failed player attempts to mod the game or change some other parameter. Oh, and some issues with the video card drivers or DirectX. I have never experienced game failures as long as I don't experiment beyond the typical settings. Before leaving, try once more to launch the game with the most conservative options possible.

Pocus,

one other tiny miny thing you may want to add to v1.03d I just noticed. Generals/Admirals seem to die/retire the NEXT year of the year set according to their DateOut. This gives some strange results. For example in our PBEM game I know of a General of Japan that should retire but the most striking example is that of Napoleon III which by mid 1871 and the Republic formed is still leading* a standing army. I do not know how the code should be corrected but perhaps you need to see if the DateOut needs to force its result at some random point in the running year, if this is possible. To be certain please also check if the same is happening to the rulers' DateOut.

*ok, maybe Napoleon is alright because he has a DateOut of 1878 for some reason... instead, Matsudaira Katamori of Japan had a DateOut of 1870 and he still hasn't retired
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makotech222
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Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:10 pm

The game isn't worth it to play. Takes several hours just to get through 10 years of gameplay. And i still get crashes that aren't due to any mods

Emre Yigit
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Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:36 pm

As an example, in the following event:

Code: Select all

SelectFaction = $RUS
SelectRegion = $Petersburg
StartEvent = evt_nam_RUS_Kolokol1857|1|2|evt_txt_RUS_Kolokol1857|Event-img_RUS_Kolokol1857|$Petersburg|NULL

Conditions
  MinDate = 1857/01/01
  MaxDate = 1867/01/01
  EvalEvent = evt_nam_RUS_SerfdomAbolition1861;=;0
  Probability = 15

Actions
  DescEvent = evt_desc_RUS_Kolokol1857
  ChangeLoyaltyFac = $Theater_Russia;-5

SelectFaction = $REB
  ChangeLoyaltyFac = $Theater_Russia;5

EndEvent


The scope of the action ($Theater_Russia) applies to every faction, not merely the Russian. So, for example, Prussians or Austrians owning part of that area are also affected. I find this strange, given that serfdom was abolished in Prussia (officially at least) in 1807, and in 1848 in Austria. From the start of the game's timeframe, if you were a Russian serf and you got taken over by, say, the Prussians, you would have been emancipated.

There are other, similar events, for other countries, which do not take into account possible border changes, relying on the $Theater_XXXXX definition.

Would it be possible to amend this definition to ensure it applies only to owned and controlled theaters?


Is this reproducible? Sure. Just input the following event I designed into the Plugin_1850GC.sct, start a new game, wait a turn and see hilarity ensue.

Code: Select all

SelectFaction = $GER
SelectRegion = $Brandenburg

SelectFaction = $GER
SelectRegion = $Brandenburg
StartEvent = Loyalty|20|2|Loyalty|Benefactor.png|$Brandenburg|NULL

Conditions
  MinDate = 1850/01/01

Actions
  ChangeLoyaltyFac = $Theater_Poland;5
  ChangeLoyaltyFac = $Theater_France;5
  ChangeLoyaltyFac = $Theater_Germany;5
  ChangeLoyaltyFac = $Theater_Eastern_USA;5
EndEvent


Within a few months, citizens of the area formerly known as France should be clamouring for union with their newly-rediscovered family. :) Etc etc etc.

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Kensai
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Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:48 pm

Please read the event more carefully. First of all, only the Russians lose Loyalty as the first action is in scope to the initially selected faction, Russia. Only Russia will lose explicitly loyalty. Yes it will add 5% loyalty to Rebels as well, but this is a tiny collateral of the way the scripts are applied. No bigy, considering that these non-Russian territories in the Russian theater might be justified to get these revolutionary ideas. When some loyalty is added to an already "full" house, then the first in loyalty nation loses that percentage, iirc. So even if Austria or Prussia have conquered Russian territory, I seriously doubt they had enough time to become the dominant majority in loyalty, so it is inconsequential. Second, this is the event about the Kolokol newspaper, a firebrand press that called for all peasants to rise. It seems that for it to fire you need the Serfdom abolition to not have fired, which will be the case given the 4 years it has ahead of it.

There was an Emancipation reform in 1861.

Btw, border changes to the extend you are implying them are possible only at "kids mode", aka with extended claims on. When you play such a sandbox game expect that some scripts might not run correctly. In theory, a future iteration of the game can have all events fire or not fire according to complex conditions, but that would be an overkill. I prefer that the developers focus on different, more important aspects.
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czert2
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Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:33 pm

When speaking about selfdorm i will love to implement some checks for new conqured/added/colonized regions - if you have abolished selfdorm they it will be automaticaly abolished in your new conqured areas, not only as on mentioned case if prusia conquer some russia.
In my russian game when event to abolish selfdor fired it only converted population on national provinces, on colonial areas (siberia) they remained serfs, and if you colonize that are - they are created.
I will love if they abolish selfdorm in colonyes too, if not mandatory when abolising selfdorm, then by some tech automaticaly (voting for minorities and former slaves? - ideal by me) and forcing it to newly conqured regions too.

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Kensai
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Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:44 pm

Having serfs in colonies may be WAD though. Do not know.
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Emre Yigit
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Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:33 pm

Kensai, you're so right! I'm glad, that after a half-century or so on this planet, and some 30 years after my first computer games, I finally encountered someone with your sympathy and courtesy!

Of course, having bought the game, why should I play any/all options available, especially as I didn't check with you which ones would be acceptable or not, for kids as well as adults? Forgive me the discourtesy of not checking with you before I decided how to spend my money or enjoy myself.


There is nothing to suggest in the marketing or manual that relatively open claims can create some strange situations. Nor does the menu tooltip "The PON Design Team has not calibrated the game for such a setting, so be prepared to embark on alternate world history" suggest (to me) that I can therefore encounter events designed for other nations even if, say, they no longer exist.

The fact remains that, no, actually, I do not see it as acceptable that scripts don't run well in sandbox games. I appreciate there are other issues, with events and other things, but sandbox games are as basic as you will get. They need to work right; if they do, then (probably) everything else will as well.

Moreover, as the post following yours point out, the event (as it stands) has other drawbacks. The "WAD" excuse (if that applies here) is a get-out-of-jail card that is used all too frequently.

If I am Prussia, and I take Russian provinces, and then these provinces gain or lose rebel loyalty based on events that have no effect on them, then I find the situation bizarre. IRL if you bought a house, sometime later to get a tax bill for even 1/20 of the value of the house (no "bigy"), I wonder whether you would be so sanguine?


I find it hard to believe, that a game where a command such as "EvalRgnOwned = $xxxx" exists, cannot check to see whether provinces included in a theater are actually owned. And these events, firing in 1857 or 1861, can easily have an effect. For example, in my game, not only have I behaved really unhistorically, but the Crimean War went very poorly for Russia, leading to Austrian and Ottoman gains. I assume they're now benefiting from the same events.


All that is an aside to Kensai.


To the actual developers of the game, I repeat my request: Would it be possible to amend this definition to ensure it applies only to owned and controlled theaters?

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Jim-NC
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Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:03 pm

Unfortunately, at this time, and with the resources available, PON will not see a major correction of such scripts from the developers.

Problems such as these will be addressed as can be by volunteers who love the game. We will try to help you as we can.

It is possible to add conditions to the scripts so that when they fire, they do look at such things as prior claims (if any). I personally don't know the exact scripting necessary.
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ruur
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Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm

Hello everybody.

I hope not too many find this question out of topic but, as this thread has included posts other issues than bugs... I dare to ask:

Any chance that other nations (PARTICULARLY SPAIN!!!!) will be included in future patches as Belgium and OE were in patch 1.01h?

I think that including more nations "of reasonable size", challenging but with great potentiall and world wide favourites (like Spain) would bring new players to the game and make PoN2 possible in the future.

Another way at looking at my post: I consider the omission of Spain as a regular playing nation as practically a bug :mdr:

czert2
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Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:33 pm

Well, more playable nations can be done only by volunters which made them playable, just contact kensai how to make it playable, you can be main tester for it. And after it will pas some basic trials and bugfixing, kensai will send all needed files to pocus which integrates them to official patch.

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Kensai
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Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:11 pm

One last request to Pocus. Would it be prudent to change the crisis result when a stake is played to attribute the stake at the winner of the "Just Cause" and the prestige to the "Dominator"? This way, as I had argued in the past, players will try to play to maximize both aspects which are reached with different crisis cards... Obviously Domination does NOT lose its role as it can finish a crisis earlier and give more VPs. Nations, according to their agenda, will try to win them both Domination and Just Cause or one of them according to their preferences and priorities.
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ruur
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Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:47 am

czert2 wrote:Well, more playable nations can be done only by volunters which made them playable, just contact kensai how to make it playable, you can be main tester for it. And after it will pas some basic trials and bugfixing, kensai will send all needed files to pocus which integrates them to official patch.


Thanks. I´m aware of that and precisely for that reason is that I posted. The Spanish Mod has been working for some time and it has even been updated for PoN 1.03. I haven´t been able to make it work for 1.03c, though. It only lacksa few things (prime ministers activated f.e.) to make Spain a regular nation (that can benefit from latest patches f.e.).

Kensai and Pocus are aware (at least + or -) with the situation of that and other national mods for they posted (with enthusiasmIIRC) in the eng. speaking Sp. mod threads.

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Kensai
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Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:29 am

What do you mean by Prime Ministers activated? The main problems of minor nations are:

1) lack of events (some of them have a few, like China and Spain) and national actions/decrees
2) lack of specialized auxiliary units, and sometimes even naval units
3) other minor thingies that could be considered "bugs" such as setting correctly their leader and force pools, the IsMajor=0 issue when landing on foreign land with passage rights while not at war, etc

Most of the above things are fixable through scripts. AGE 3 is a fantastic engine! :cool:
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Pocus
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Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:23 am

Resources are very limited and delaying work on AACW2 is not an option.

Kensai, the code for crisis is complex and lengthy, I would like to edit just a line for your request, but this is not how it is done, so sorry, not for the time being.
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Kensai
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Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:18 pm

Fair enough. I think it's better that way as with calm you might improve it even better. It is not critical, it's a feature request after all. :)

AACW2? You have my attention, again. Hehe. Anyway, regarding v1.03d I think what you will be correcting so far is more than enough. Just remember to make the algorithm of what constitutes a (non-) national area stricter. I think the 100% loyalty and a good percentage of ethnicity (at least 50%) should be good parameters for the conversion from colony/dominion to non-national area. Perhaps even population size (both provincial and urban) could play a role, only the largest of colonies should ever be considered to become non-national regions. Maybe if there is at least a city of at least 4-5 size to portray critical infrastructure? If there is a connection to the capital: national area, as it is now. However, it MIGHT give problems with multi-national empires such as Austria and China, but if these start at the beginning of the game as national regions, as it should be, they cannot revert back.

I think ethnicity fixes most of these automatic transitions we had in the past: I have been watching Canada for example. The ethnicity there is not British 100% but Canadian, which means they already start to have a different identity which is realistic and compatible with the further evolution, as Canada will eventually become independent.
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vaalen
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Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:52 pm

Pocus wrote:Resources are very limited and delaying work on AACW2 is not an option.

Kensai, the code for crisis is complex and lengthy, I would like to edit just a line for your request, but this is not how it is done, so sorry, not for the time being.


I am deeply grateful that you are working on 1.03d, with resources being so limited. What you have outlined previously is enough, and will greatly improve the game. I understand completely that you must get going on AACW2.

ruur
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Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:20 pm

Pocus, in case you were referring to my post, I´m aware that the resources are very limited atm. I know that further improvement of PoN through patches rest mainly on the good will of Kensai (and others?) and that Ageod will basically give the green light, so to speak. Ageod is notorious for its support not only for its games but also for its community. I´m not complaining at all.

However, the 2 Sp. Mods, by Laruku and Kekecrack or Xesco (Pride of Spain) are super, super advanced in most of the issues that Kensai mentions as tipically lacking for not major countries. They were so at least 2 months ago.

Kensai, you must be tne busiest forumite in the world. Posting, reading threads, developing the patches, etc. To ask you now to take a look at the present state of those mods would be too much atm. BUT...... if you happen to have the time... on a lonely horrible, wintery afternoon in the near future.... DO IT!!!!, BY ALL MEANS!!!....please (of course) :wacko: . Oh!, last thing: by Prime minister I mean the portrait to the right of the ruler and that add to the statistics of a nation.

I´m sure that many people would gladly pay for a DLC with more playable nations.

Anyway, thanks everybody for the support to PoN.

czert2
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Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:22 am

one sugestion - forced conversion of artilery unist from tribal nations to national. It is not only fictional taht tribal unist in africa (and in otehr places) have arty units, and second lack of upgrade path for them make them stuck forever at firs tech, doesnt matter how advanced arty tech you have, and since captured unist draw your pool, it will be no difference from building them. Sure no need for conversion of units which have upgrade path :) .
And one question - how exactly is colonization/population mechaning working - when i played colonist card on region with low regional population 1 or 2, mayby tehre were more not sure, then result was not nice "wiping out" of all pupulation, not adding national, results were severe - all stuctures placed here which need pop no longer operating and despite playing 2x colonist card here, no increase in pop. Other card which increase pop dont work too. Onlyest effect from colonist is only gaining more and more % of national pop over regional. How game handle tehse 0 pop regions, it is chance that they will spawn pop after certain time, without need to play cards ?

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Pocus
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Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:40 pm

@Ruur: We are not against adding content to PON, provided Kensai validates it. Yes, it is a burden, no doubt, but I think he demonstrated both his skills and expertises, plus he volunteered :)
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ruur
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Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:19 pm

I know, thanks Pocus.

I´m crossing my fingers that eventually Kensai wll have the time to add the Spanish Mod(s) (the most advanced of them) and other national mods that might need little work for their inclusion.

Anyway, I´m sure we are all gratefull to him and other forumites that dedicate their time for us all.

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Kensai
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Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:48 pm

I am really standing on the shoulders of giants, here, kudos to everyone else who made this possible. ruur, even if you don't get the Spanish mod as "official" inclusion, it is rather easy to integrate the content Laruku and others have made. If you need any help let me/us know.
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Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:39 am

Kensai wrote:I am really standing on the shoulders of giants, here, kudos to everyone else who made this possible. ruur, even if you don't get the Spanish mod as "official" inclusion, it is rather easy to integrate the content Laruku and others have made. If you need any help let me/us know.


Kensai, in my book you are a giant as well.

My deep thanks for all you have done and all you are doing to help this magnificent game reach its potential.

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Pocus
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Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:11 am

Incoming!!!
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ruur
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Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:54 pm

Kensai wrote:I am really standing on the shoulders of giants, here, kudos to everyone else who made this possible. ruur, even if you don't get the Spanish mod as "official" inclusion, it is rather easy to integrate the content Laruku and others have made. If you need any help let me/us know.


No, unfortunatelly not, Kensai, Spain is unplayable right now afaik. The Spanish mod was good for PoN 1.03. It´s creator, Laruku, ackowledges that for every new patch, the Sp. mod needed an adapatation so it could work. It doesn´t work for 1.03c. Furthermore, I´ve been unable to play with Spain as one of the "aside nations" in 1.03c. A critical error happens: a text.log problem always around turns 6-8 (can´t remember if it´s always on the same turn).

So, as things stand atm, Spain is unplayable unless you want to go to back patch 1.03.

Anyway, thanks again Kensai.

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Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:07 am

Pocus wrote:Resources are very limited and delaying work on AACW2 is not an option.

Kensai, the code for crisis is complex and lengthy, I would like to edit just a line for your request, but this is not how it is done, so sorry, not for the time being.


Please Pocus,
Just get a more realistic weather map. I know you have to have a [long] winter to allow both players and the AI to consolidate, it's important and it's a game, sometimes a compromise between the history and gaming is required. I'd prefer the more honest weather map personally, and as always in complex games, more choices for your customers to pick at game start is always better. (I'm getting older so now prefer a less frenetic game when possible, although the default of the USA Civil war must always start as manic.)

Back to a PoN 2: The long turn processing times; I'm wondering, another player mentioned if would it not be possible to do some "background" processing of things such as Supply pushes during the players turn. As many nations have little to do throughout the game this may help quite a lot (apologies to the player and I believe it was mentioned on the previous page).

I'd love to see a detailed rendition of the English Civil War: The French, Irish, Scottish and Welsh all dived in as well, if memory serves. A properly done English Civil War title would be fascinating if the history was given as well. At School I learnt mostly about the Romans, Tudors and WWI, and have forgotten mostly all except WWI, Perhaps you French blokes could remind me. ;)

Within PoN 1: The Russians not having access to any modern Cavalry and the AI forgetting what is Colonial and who owns what and how and why, within specific situations, are the only two major problems I've seen still playing as Russia.
Easier access to edit games would be good as well. Paradox got one thing very right on that and changed gaming forever, within this intellectual end of gaming.

PPS: I also agree that it's crazy Spain is unplayable! The complete list of nations able to be played in PoN 2 should be a must. As the PoN 1 economic model only has minor quirks, come on you Phil's , PoN 2 isn't such a major, major project :)
"Whether it's the best of times or the worst of times, it's the only time you've got" Art Buchwald, U.S. Journalist and humourist

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Kensai
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Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:25 am

Moriety, an old member here at the AGEOD forums had used a pearl script once to create a "better" weather implementation for Rise of Prussia, Wars in America, and possibly other titles as well. It was never completed although on a good track.

However, why do you say you are not satisfied with PON's weather? Personally, and our 24-nation game can mostly confirm this, I find the weather patterns quite nicely implemented. I will give you three examples I've personally noticed while playing Japan and Greece:

  • The Far East waters between Siberian and Japan freeze every winter shutting down all naval trafic over a certain latitude. Amazingly this latitude (circa from Vladivostok Northwards) is the historical reason why the Russian Empire desired a year-long ice-free port exit in the Far East and created the naval base of Port Arthur.
  • As Japan, again, I have noticed a consistent monsoon season every summer. Quite nicely simulated.
  • As Greece, I notice the snow patterns in the Balkans is more or less consistent to what happens in Greece and the rest of the area in real life.


It might get better, but it already works more than adequately. Perhaps if you have specific changes to suggest, they might get implemented in a future patch. Since the game is extremely moddable though, I suggest you try to play with the parameters yourself in the Weather folder. You could create your own situation as you wish it!
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Moriety
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Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:12 pm

Kensai wrote:Moriety, an old member here at the AGEOD forums had used a pearl script once to create a "better" weather implementation for Rise of Prussia, Wars in America, and possibly other titles as well. It was never completed although on a good track.

However, why do you say you are not satisfied with PON's weather? Personally, and our 24-nation game can mostly confirm this, I find the weather patterns quite nicely implemented. I will give you three examples I've personally noticed while playing Japan and Greece:

  • The Far East waters between Siberian and Japan freeze every winter shutting down all naval trafic over a certain latitude. Amazingly this latitude (circa from Vladivostok Northwards) is the historical reason why the Russian Empire desired a year-long ice-free port exit in the Far East and created the naval base of Port Arthur.
  • As Japan, again, I have noticed a consistent monsoon season every summer. Quite nicely simulated.
  • As Greece, I notice the snow patterns in the Balkans is more or less consistent to what happens in Greece and the rest of the area in real life.

It might get better, but it already works more than adequately. Perhaps if you have specific changes to suggest, they might get implemented in a future patch. Since the game is extremely moddable though, I suggest you try to play with the parameters yourself in the Weather folder. You could create your own situation as you wish it!


Hi Kensai,
I was talking about the future AACW2. :)
I did actually do some weather modding to BoA but it's lost on a dead PC.
"Whether it's the best of times or the worst of times, it's the only time you've got" Art Buchwald, U.S. Journalist and humourist

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Egg Bub
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Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:24 pm

Moriety raised this issue in another thread, but I would like to second it here:

I have recently had to fight Chinese doom stacks of 500000+ men, which only have a 23% command penalty. I am pretty sure that 1860s China could not field armies (yes, there are more than one) of this size. Unless this is WAD, the code to prevent AI doom stacks isn't working. Maybe a cap of 50 command usage for nations like China which otherwise build doom stacks, whereby they literally cannot build armies with more than that much command usage. :)

P.S. I understand that in 1870/1914 Europe this is less unusual, but no way could China put 500000 men on the battlefield in 1865.

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Egg Bub
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Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:03 pm

Egg Bub wrote:This may already have been mentioned, but the 1854 miners' strike in Australia never ends, regardless of which option you choose.


Update: this event just went away in mid-1865. Not sure if anything to do with 1.03d patch.

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Kensai
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Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:16 pm

Do not be afraid of the Chinese stacks of doom. Quality can win over quantity. Use crack troops and they will melt like a hot knife through butter... ;)
(I do not know if the AI penalties are lenient or not, but they are mostly unorganized levies after all, do not worry)
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