Any new AGEOD games in December 2011 or in 2012?

[Hobbes]

I suppose the generally negative reaction is from existing AGEOD game players (like me) who love the engine, map and counter style and turn based play. I can only hope they find an audience for this game and make some money out of it which will allow them to make the occasional game in the usual AGEOD style (which I'm sure they will still want to do if time and finances allow).

Cheers, Chris

[GlobalExplorer]

It's the classical AGEOD's TB engine It is a subject not yet tackled, and the fans will love it. In addition the game will come with quite a few scenarios and an expansion pack quickly, plus very interesting DLC's and room for more...much more

and, even more interesting, players and fans will be able to "influence" the evolution choice of that new game..

We are now streamlining a few technical, commercial and contractual aspects of that second game...patience

Good. That is my hope now. I have a lot of respect for you guys, so I will not try to rub in my dissapointment about this new game.

The engine considerations make sense at least for the maps. I already knew that the Paradox can handle the graphics much better, hardware accelerated vector graphics scales much better than the raster approach wich clearly hit a wall in PON. Perhaps, just perhaps in the future, it could be possible to use the Clausewitz engine with a good looking 2D view and turn based system?

[GlobalExplorer]

I still have massive regrets that the post AACW turn wasn't better managed by AGEOD. They were a little garage studio, who released a little gem in BOA, than a triumph in AACW and unfortunately between the "mistakes" made in NCP and the overly complex and demanding to developp PON, the future didn't turn out as hoped...

My thoughts exactly. Someone should have told us how bad it really was.
AACW was indeed a triumph and I'm still amazed why not more people could recognize this. Afterwards, all the time AGEOD kept releasing more great games like Wars in America, and Revolution under Siege. So it was not that there was lack of dedication from AGEOD. I tried hard to advertise the games in other forums and met a lot of ignorance. It was the fault of the broader market, which did not respond to this type of game. Then came the Paradox deal, and one already had an uneasy sense. PON is another story. I think real mistakes were made, though the intentions were right. But I knew something was wrong when I saw the first screenshots, and the performance .. I could have told you it wouldn't work but you didn't ask me
But alas, with the help of Paradox, you managed to keep the company alive. There will be more games .. with turn based mechanics and the genuine Ageod flavor. I am looking forward to the announcements. I still love you guys What more can be said?

[De_Spinoza]

I really hope you keep working on this marvel the AGE engine is. Nevertheless, I hope for v4.0 to give it what it really deserves: SPEED!

I would suggest you don't add any new features, but you rewrite it from scratch to take advantage of the newest technologies: multicore processors, multithreading, 64-bit, GPUs, the kitchen sink of today's computing capabilities. The only problem that is stopping for example Pride of Nations of being a masterpiece is the long turn processing. If you manage to rewrite the Athena engine to have the much needed speed it craves for, I don't ask for anything else.

I couldn't agree more. The only thing that stops me from truly enjoying Pride of Nations is the slow turn procession and the sluggish map. Fact is that all modern day video cards have a rather limited 2d capability. With old 2d games this didn't matter, but with the huge(albeit pretty) map of Pride of Nations it indeed is a problem.

From that perspective, moving to the Clausewitz engine could be a big step forward. A bigger amount of processing can be offloaded to the GPU. And I am sure the artists at AGEOD will be able to make that map look very, very pretty. It already looks better than the map of the first EU3, anyway. In the end this will lead to a smoother and better experience.

Indeed the only thing I don't like is that they moved to real time for NCP II. The turn-based system is what made me love WIA and PoN...

[deguerra]

Hmmmm, I'm going to go with the "slightly disappointed, but" crowd. Yes an old-school Nappie game would have been cool. But:

-paradox do not make bad games. There is a reason for their fan base. Personally, I was disappointed with HoI3 and (to a lesser extent) Victoria 2, but HoI2 and it's various expansions and mods were fantastic, as was Eu2, as was Eu3, once the modders got to it (magna mundi being my poison o f choice)

-of course paradox games are different from ageods, but isn't diversity something to cherish? This will be an ageod game, based on a paradox engine. Yes, that will mean some changes, but I expect the end result to be closer to ageod than paradox in terms of design philosophy.

-the caveat being the real time engine. But again, I found paradox games to work best where they were focused and event driven, rather than the more "free roam" Hoi3 and Vickie 2 (and vanilla eu3). Buy arsenal of democracy (essentially hoi2) and download the excellent CORE mod and you will see that a paradox engine is capable of handling the sort of scope s napoleonic game needs.

-a napoleonic game will be more focused and event driven than eu3 etc. Otherwise it wouldn't work. Paradox engines can do this. Ageod can do this. Perhaps an ageod design on a paradox engine is exactly the right level of focus and detail for this game. Perhaps the scope is just too big for the old engine. At least we should give it a chance.

-and if not, there is a pure ageod game to look forward to.

- and if not, we can play aacw til kingdom come :P

[Zap Brannigan]

I am pleased to hear another game is being developed with the AGE engine (I have all of them - hoping for 30YW) but I'm not as down as a lot of the posters here on the announcement for Napolean's campaigns - although it is hard to judge by only screenshots at this stage I'm already interested in the military differences (flanks and reserves) and I'm looking forward to seeing how the Real time will work with that. I've always thought that the Paradox real time games could do with some of the features from Ageod's games and I hope it is a successful merging

I for one will be buying.

[Franciscus]

I confess my initial reaction was disappointment. I can live with the maps, I believe the Phils can tweak Clausewitz and make something special out of it, but what I really do not like is the idea of real-time. I own several Paradox titles, but with the exception of the first EU, I never could derive real pleasure from them, and I suspect the "real-time" is one of the main reasons.

STILL, the Phils have made one of the finest games ever, for me - AACW. If not for anything else, that would be reason enough for putting money in their bank accounts regularly, like I do with my cable provider, internet provider, etc.

SO, I grudgingly will give them the benefit of a doubt. I will continue to support them, but I will be expecting nothing short of a miracle: an outstanding real-time strategy game that will make me forget all the EU3/HOI disappointments

[vaalen]

I confess my initial reaction was disappointment. I can live with the maps, I believe the Phils can tweak Clausewitz and make something special out of it, but what I really do not like is the idea of real-time. I own several Paradox titles, but with the exception of the first EU, I never could derive real pleasure from them, and I suspect the "real-time" is one of the main reasons.

STILL, the Phils have made one of the finest games ever, for me - AACW. If not for anything else, that would be reason enough for putting money in their bank accounts regularly, like I do with my cable provider, internet provider, etc.

SO, I grudgingly will give them the benefit of a doubt. I will continue to support them, but I will be expecting nothing short of a miracle: an outstanding real-time strategy game that will make me forget all the EU3/HOI disappointments

That is a miracle that I expect to happen. Thank you for supporting Ageod.

[H Gilmer3]

Hi everybody

I noticed the announcement of NCII and new to this forum.

At http://www.paradoxplaza.com/games/napoleons-campaigns-ii I read that there will be a multiplayer restriction: Play-by-Email only... Is this correct?
No Lan sessions?
....and what is with Country Sharing i multiplayer will it be supported?

Can't answer any of your questions, but welcome.

[H Gilmer3]

WOOT! Gogo Bing French to English Translator!

"Sorry but I am getting disappointed.. .the engine of Paradox (Sengoku/CK2 etc) is not bad but is well below that of AGEOD. And frankly, with total Napoleon war, EU III and Imperial Glory, I do not see that this version on Napoleon will make more? I'll remain attentive but remains on the reserve. I understand that the artist did not yet publish these images because frankly, it's fairly ugly.

And one who thinks that taking 3D it is a positive development, I will put him happy a Smurf to face me, a Stroumpf name.


You cannot put AGEOD symbols option instead of these giants of Paradox?


Short... I hope that the other games mentioned by Pocus (ancient world perhaps) will save my year."


I also want the happy smurf to face me. But yes I think I agree with you, if Bing didn't lie to me.

Google translate wasn't as good. Why oh why did I forget how to speak and read French?

[deoved]

Ancient Rome game maybe? Anybody played old Phils game Pax Romana? It was never fully completed, but brilliant nonetheless! Even now i play it sometimes... If they wanted something realtime, then it is better to revive that label or create AGE game about ancient mediterranean.

[Ilitarist]

The clausewitz engine is not AGE. And yes there is a dramatic difference between the two and how the games built on them play. Real time versus WEGO being the most notiable change.

You are correct that doesn't mean a bad game, but they will inherently play differently.

The difference between clausewitz and AGE games is one is made by Paradox and other by AGEOD. Graphical engine doesn't force developer to use anything else. For example, Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion, Civilization 4 and Pirates! are all made on the same graphical engine. It seems that AGEOD copypasted map drawing from P-x - but that's because P-x makes great maps (they are very moddable and artistic, just look at Victoria 2). They've also taken "1 turn = 1 day" (not the same as realtime) policy. And now they can add anything. They can make battles just the same. They can make them better. They can put complex logic in the game cause clausewitz can digest it without choking. All panik is pointless till you've seen the game.

[Narwhal]

I am enthusiastic about this game, and I believe it will be a commercial success, as for most Paradox fans, this is going to be "normal" Paradox game, and for some AGEOD fan it is going to be a "Phillipe" game.

I would not have bought a "pure" Paradox on the Napoleonic era, but made by the Phillips it can be oustanding. I just hope that
- the AI will be AGEODic and not Paradoxic
- the "campaign" will be short enough that I can play multiplayer quite easily. Easy MP was one of the major advantage of AGEOD games.

I understand why many AGEOD fans are disappointed with this game - AGEOD gathered a crowd of TB Wargamers, not real-time strategist, so of course they don't like that the best company in their opinion in such a niche is partially getting out of the niche. As for me, I completely come from Paradox (first heard of AGEOD when Paradox bought them), so I am really happy. I hope it will be the best of both worlds.

[deoved]

I understand why many AGEOD fans are disappointed with this game - AGEOD gathered a crowd of TB Wargamers, not real-time strategist, so of course they don't like that the best company in their opinion in such a niche is partially getting out of the niche. As for me, I completely come from Paradox (first heard of AGEOD when Paradox bought them), so I am really happy. I hope it will be the best of both worlds.

By what i must be happy? There was Paradox and there was AGEOD, i played games of the former and of the latter. But now they will do same kind of games and niche TB Wargames on PC will disappear, its horrible! Dont know maybe i am fully move to Matrix Games wargames than succumb to later Paradox profanity...

[Bison36]

I guess the another question that hasn't been asked is whether or not Steam will be required for the game.

[Gooring]

Since Paradox will be distributing it I guess it'll be available on Gamersgate without any involvement from Steam whatsoever.

[Robert E. Lee]

Since Paradox will be distributing it I guess it'll be available on Gamersgate without any involvement from Steam whatsoever.

It's not sure. Johan told me they focus on steam. CK2's case however shows they do listen to us. CK2's was full steam initially. Now there will be a gamersgate version as well which is what i will get. It's important to keep the pressure as soon as sub-forum for the game is open in the Paradox forums.

[Bruit Bleu]

No, the real question is when costume DLC will be available for the big polygonal sprites ? A few cheap shoulder pads and ribbons pack would be great ! ......


I now have indeed low expectations for this game (but not for the other to be announced ! my wish is for the 30 years war), and will have a good surprise if it happens to be a good game.

I just hope Clownswitz engine can restitute the spirit and feel to be a commander of those times, with delays and incertitude in orders resolution, something Ageod always did with great talent, thanks to the turn by turn wego system.
In my humble opinion, that's what made Ageod games so enjoyable and interesting, that, and of course the very nice artistic direction and the precision of historical databases !

[veji1]

Well I suppose the question regarding the engine is what could the AGEOD guys change and what is set in stone. For example, I hopethe AGEOD guys will be able to get into the battle resolution engine, make sure it gives realistic results, takes into account frontage, unit type, terrain, etc... But will they be able to include a form of MTSG ?

I can understand that the Clausewitz engine will allow for faster, more efficient processing of the Grand strategy part of the game : Diplomacy, Production, etc... Basically they will be using for NCP2n a engine perfectlyz adapted for PON ! It is a shame by the way that AGEOD being Paradox France they could'nt get together and do Victoria II/PON as one game. the PON ideas from Paradox with the Clausewitz engine, that might have been very solid (except for the RT versus TB issue).

But for the purely operational aspects of NCP2 although I hope it can be done, I have my doubts. If it ends up being Napoleon's stack of death cruising through Europe... Well...

It might be a good game but my fears have been confirmed to some extent, rather than doing a NCP2 that actually gets the best out of AACW and the progresses made in WIA for example, we will get a super EiA.

I hope that the AGEOD game they are talking about is a European based game à la 30YW. I still think the best thing AGEOD could do is produce a detailed European map, with provinces of the scale of ROP, and with moddeable overlys and files for the transport network, forts, etc.. Because than such a Map with the AGEOD engine (sped up for graphics loading) would provide the base for all the games you could imagine in Europe between 1600 and 1920...

[Blind Sniper]

A Paradox game? Real time? Horrible pair for my taste. No thanks

There will be an AGE/Athena game engine game released in 2012 too, more later be assured.

Great news indeed, hoping for a good game with Athena engine, maybe ACW II but of course I'm dreaming...

... and it will be on a theme not yet treated that you shall like

Ok, read now, stop dreaming. Waiting news.

I suppose the generally negative reaction is from existing AGEOD game players (like me) who love the engine, map and counter style and turn based play. I can only hope they find an audience for this game and make some money out of it which will allow them to make the occasional game in the usual AGEOD style (which I'm sure they will still want to do if time and finances allow).

Agree! I wish Ageod all the luck hoping that the money earned can be used for a good game.

[Nikel]

Technical choices regarding engine and other matters have been duly weighted before making a choice

Pocus is involved in another engine... Is it not better that Pocus improves AGE adding multicore support? So it was the long turns of PON the reason choosing another engine... But NCP2 should have been like AACW, not PON.

And who needs 3d monsters like the ones that appear in the screenshots?

It's the classical AGEOD's TB engine It is a subject not yet tackled, and the fans will love it. In addition the game will come with quite a few scenarios and an expansion pack quickly, plus very interesting DLC's and room for more...much more

and, even more interesting, players and fans will be able to "influence" the evolution choice of that new game..

We are now streamlining a few technical, commercial and contractual aspects of that second game...patience

Who is developing it? RUS team?

Will it also be released in 2012?

Players will influence the evolution? What does it mean? For expansions using the same map, for example Mediterranean basin in ancient and WW2 times?

[wosung]

Marketing wise, it would have been better if Paradox first would have announced the new AGE game and then Napoleon 2. This would have pleased the TB AGE afficionados without disturbing the rest, who doesn’t care. Unfortunately it was done the other way.

As for the strengths and weakness of AGE and Clausewitz it seems to me, that the former is best used for operational to “medium”-strategy games covering conflicts about 5 years (130 turns) long between 2-3 contrahents. I wonder why nobody (except someone with PON) experimented with 1 week or one month turns instead of the standard 2 week turns in order to extend AGE’s scope.

As for Clausewitz, it seems to me, that it’s a paradox engine, pun intended. Being RT it allows to span larger periods of history, which is good. OTH, RT makes it hard to play global strategy games: Even if it’s pausable, too many things are going on at the same time in different parts of the world. And precisely this shapes playing styles: Arguably this is one (but not the only) reason why so many like to play, say Germany or Japan in HOI. One front/enemy at a time, rinse and repeat. But hardly any global acting. Despite all this, Clausewitz games seem to be immensely popular. I’m really curious, how the 2 Phils will handle Clausewitz .

Regards

[PhilThib]

The team developing the new project is made of experienced AGE players, they know our engine very well and have been modders of same for long time... not the RUS though, other people (mostly French)

You'll hear from them when they are ready (in a few weeks I supposed), they want to be sure the welcome of the product will be great and that no grumpy player will destroy they efforts and critizice beyond reasonable way as we have seen in the past... In the meanwhile, I promised to seal my lips

The game will come with lots of expansions on a long-term, multi-years programm: that's where players will be involved; they will be allowed to give their opinion and desires, help choose the subjects, and even get involved into creating content (graphic, historical, DB, etc...)

[Nikel]

Thanks


Seems to be very advanced, only a in few weeks

[nadia911]

The team developing the new project is made of experienced AGE players, they know our engine very well and have been modders of same for long time... not the RUS though, other people (mostly French)

You'll hear from them when they are ready (in a few weeks I supposed), they want to be sure the welcome of the product will be great and that no grumpy player will destroy they efforts and critizice beyond reasonable way as we have seen in the past... In the meanwhile, I promised to seal my lips

The game will come with lots of expansions on a long-term, multi-years programm: that's where players will be involved; they will be allowed to give their opinion and desires, help choose the subjects, and even get involved into creating content (graphic, historical, DB, etc...)

NCP III ???????????

[Czert]

It may sond like heresy, but which have NCII have more to offer compared to the napoleon expansion for eu3 ?
Having historical names for units, graphicks for them, portraits of leaders....is only nice bonus and fancy stuff, but if core remains same.....from gameplay is no difference if on that provience attack 10 nameless units or 10 with pictures and history.
Or it will have greatly reworked system in terms of supply, reinforcment and other things ?

[nadia911]

It may sond like heresy, but which have NCII have more to offer compared to the napoleon expansion for eu3 ?
Having historical names for units, graphicks for them, portraits of leaders....is only nice bonus and fancy stuff, but if core remains same.....from gameplay is no difference if on that provience attack 10 nameless units or 10 with pictures and history.
Or it will have greatly reworked system in terms of supply, reinforcment and other things ?

Go play Total War saga

[deoved]

It may sond like heresy, but which have NCII have more to offer compared to the napoleon expansion for eu3 ?
Having historical names for units, graphicks for them, portraits of leaders....is only nice bonus and fancy stuff, but if core remains same.....from gameplay is no difference if on that provience attack 10 nameless units or 10 with pictures and history.
Or it will have greatly reworked system in terms of supply, reinforcment and other things ?

Clauzewitz engine is all about conquering provinces, so called "Only Land Matters" principle. Happily painting map into colourfull stripes. I doubt anyone can change that.

[PhilThib]

Clauzewitz engine is all about conquering provinces, so called "Only Land Matters" principle. Happily painting map into colourfull stripes. I doubt anyone can change that.

You are confusing the effects and method with the purpose. A military game is indeed about conquering lands, but in NCP2 it will not matter that much for victory...

Winning NCP2 will all be about acquiring dominancy (which is a bit more than just grabbing provinces) and, more importantly, achieving glory and dynastical objectives...

France with it's 1792 borders (or even less) AND Napoleon a legitimate and recognized ruler will WIN, no matter what amount of land (more or less) she controls...

Thanks to give us a bit of trust on what we may be able to achieve in terms of gameplay and design

[veji1]

The team developing the new project is made of experienced AGE players, they know our engine very well and have been modders of same for long time... not the RUS though, other people (mostly French)

You'll hear from them when they are ready (in a few weeks I supposed), they want to be sure the welcome of the product will be great and that no grumpy player will destroy they efforts and critizice beyond reasonable way as we have seen in the past... In the meanwhile, I promised to seal my lips

The game will come with lots of expansions on a long-term, multi-years programm: that's where players will be involved; they will be allowed to give their opinion and desires, help choose the subjects, and even get involved into creating content (graphic, historical, DB, etc...)

OK, I have very hopes now. Whay ? because the bold sentence seems to really point at work being done a comprehensive adaptable multilayered european map. Why ? Because once you have a proper European map, with overlays for transport infrastructure, forts anc city sprites and the ability to adjust its feel with just a few UI changes, you have the base of a slew of games.

Want to do a 30YW game : Map is there, engine is there, adjust the city sprites and fortifications, build up the sides an the units and storyline with some events and off you go.
Want to do the "Wars of Nations 1850-1870" : Map is there, adjust the transport overlay to reflect rail, the forts to reflect more modern forts, build up the sides with their Units, events, and off you go.
Want to do a NCPIIbis, using the AGE engine : rinse repeat.
Want to do a Louis XIV against the rest of Europe or a 1740-1760 MegaROP : Again doable.

It will require a comitted community to pull it off and build it up, but if a dynamic gets started, the tools will be there. Phil says it is mainly the french guys, which could be guys like Bohémond who vastly improved NCP and was working on a proper campaign mod for it using the AACW tool kit.

Man I am all giddy and hopeful again !!!

GO AGEOD !