Newbie with a bit of confusion.......
I understand a Division requires 4CP and an Army 4 also - what does a Corps require? Is it 4 or is it 4 multipled by number of divisions?
In this vein, if I have a *** General with a 16 CP Corps in a region consisting of 4 divisions, each with a * General, do I have enough leader CP's to fulfill the requirement or is the *** General the only factor and I am thus penalized in combat?
Finally, if I have an Army (4CP) with 2 16cp corps, do I need to provide 36CP's of leadership points by combining my ***, ** and * star generals or do I merely need to provide 4CP of leadership - the army requirement?
Question on Corps, Armies and CP's.
Newbie with a bit of confusion.......
I understand a Division requires 4CP and an Army 4 also - what does a Corps require? Is it 4 or is it 4 multipled by number of divisions?
In this vein, if I have a *** General with a 16 CP Corps in a region consisting of 4 divisions, each with a * General, do I have enough leader CP's to fulfill the requirement or is the *** General the only factor and I am thus penalized in combat?
Finally, if I have an Army (4CP) with 2 16cp corps, do I need to provide 36CP's of leadership points by combining my ***, ** and * star generals or do I merely need to provide 4CP of leadership - the army requirement?
I understand a Division requires 4CP and an Army 4 also - what does a Corps require? Is it 4 or is it 4 multipled by number of divisions?
In this vein, if I have a *** General with a 16 CP Corps in a region consisting of 4 divisions, each with a * General, do I have enough leader CP's to fulfill the requirement or is the *** General the only factor and I am thus penalized in combat?
Finally, if I have an Army (4CP) with 2 16cp corps, do I need to provide 36CP's of leadership points by combining my ***, ** and * star generals or do I merely need to provide 4CP of leadership - the army requirement?
The important thing to note is that generals 'in' the chain of command give their full cp value. (Which is 4/star) And generals 'out' of the chain give half of their cp value (So 2/star)
Generals count as 'in' if they are part of a corps or army structure. This includes Army/Corps commanders as well as subordinate generals in an Army or Corps stack. (Not just in the same region, but the same tab on the bottom of the screen.)
A corps on it's own requires no cp, just gives you the ability to maximize your leadership's potential. A corps can have up to 16 cp under it using only general-generated cp. You can get a few more points with baloons, signal corps and an aide de camp.
A division does indeed take 4 cp, but as long as they are in an army/corps stack you are covered because the commander of said division gives his full compliment of cp. So, to use your example: A corps headed by a 3* would give a base 12 cp. Add in 4 divisions each headed by a 1* and you get 16 more cp (technically), but due to the 16 cp limit you only get an additional 4. So, you are now at 16 cp and are using 16 due to the four divisions in the stack. You will be penalized if you go over the cp limit, as you normally would. (5% per point over, up to 35%)
To your final question, all corps and army stacks operate independently with regard to cp usage. Each will require the cp for the units it contains. So, the army commander (and any generals in his stack) will only need to cover his personal stack. The individual corps commanders (and their direct subordinates) will take care of their stack(s).
A lot to take in, but it will all come clear with time.
Generals count as 'in' if they are part of a corps or army structure. This includes Army/Corps commanders as well as subordinate generals in an Army or Corps stack. (Not just in the same region, but the same tab on the bottom of the screen.)
A corps on it's own requires no cp, just gives you the ability to maximize your leadership's potential. A corps can have up to 16 cp under it using only general-generated cp. You can get a few more points with baloons, signal corps and an aide de camp.
A division does indeed take 4 cp, but as long as they are in an army/corps stack you are covered because the commander of said division gives his full compliment of cp. So, to use your example: A corps headed by a 3* would give a base 12 cp. Add in 4 divisions each headed by a 1* and you get 16 more cp (technically), but due to the 16 cp limit you only get an additional 4. So, you are now at 16 cp and are using 16 due to the four divisions in the stack. You will be penalized if you go over the cp limit, as you normally would. (5% per point over, up to 35%)
To your final question, all corps and army stacks operate independently with regard to cp usage. Each will require the cp for the units it contains. So, the army commander (and any generals in his stack) will only need to cover his personal stack. The individual corps commanders (and their direct subordinates) will take care of their stack(s).
A lot to take in, but it will all come clear with time.
My name is Aaron.
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Major Dilemma
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There is a lot of information to cover there and it needs to be sorted out. Divisions require 4 cp's this is true. You can satisfy that requirement by using two one star generals or one two star general.
* provides 4 Cp's
** provides 8 CP's
*** and **** provided 12 CP's
With a division the unit is out of the chain of command even if it is in the same stack as a corps it is not in the chain of command. Therefore there is a 50% penalty. That is why you need two one star or one two star generals to satisfy the CP requirements unless you want to suffer the penalty of insufficient command for that division.
If your division is in a stack with corps the division CP requirements do not change and the CP requirements for the stack as a whole are an aggregate of all the CP requirements for the stack. If your division is lacking CP's the effect on the stack will be a deficit which can be satisfied by adding generals to the stack. Divisions do not benefit from the chain of command and therefore the command point requirement must be satisfied with sufficient generals to overcome the out of command penalty which is 50%.
to answer your first question how many command points does a corps require the answer is nothing in and of itself. the status of a corps allows the corps to avoid the out of command penalty. therefore a two star general which provides 8 CP will enjoy the full 8CP of command points available. Add a one star into the corps stack and you add 4 additional command points.
********
..."In this vein, if I have a *** General with a 16 CP Corps in a region consisting of 4 divisions, each with a * General, do I have enough leader CP's to fulfill the requirement or is the *** General the only factor and I am thus penalized in combat?"...
If your divisions are in the same stack as the corps your corps command points will contribute to the overall stack cp requirements of your divisions. Each of your divisions requires 4 CP and they each have one brigadier general assigned to them so each of your four divisions is running a deficit of two command points. That is a total deficit of 8 cp's for the four divisions. if those four divisions are placed within the corps stack which has a total of 16 cp's you should have a running total of 8 CP's in the positive.
Divisions not under the command of the corps leader will each suffer their own independent penalties.
**********
Last question CP calculations only apply to the combined cp requirements of units within the same stack.
I hope this has not confused you further.
I suggest you operate your divisions independently of your corps and armies until things are clear in your mind. Divisions do suffer the out of command penalty but in return they offer the opportunity to command 18 elements for the comparatively low cost of only four command points and a division can be fully operational when led by two one star generals. Divisions enable you to use your one star generals to effectively command brigades which are not necessarily the best choice to place into a corps.
*************
* provides 4 Cp's
** provides 8 CP's
*** and **** provided 12 CP's
With a division the unit is out of the chain of command even if it is in the same stack as a corps it is not in the chain of command. Therefore there is a 50% penalty. That is why you need two one star or one two star generals to satisfy the CP requirements unless you want to suffer the penalty of insufficient command for that division.
If your division is in a stack with corps the division CP requirements do not change and the CP requirements for the stack as a whole are an aggregate of all the CP requirements for the stack. If your division is lacking CP's the effect on the stack will be a deficit which can be satisfied by adding generals to the stack. Divisions do not benefit from the chain of command and therefore the command point requirement must be satisfied with sufficient generals to overcome the out of command penalty which is 50%.
to answer your first question how many command points does a corps require the answer is nothing in and of itself. the status of a corps allows the corps to avoid the out of command penalty. therefore a two star general which provides 8 CP will enjoy the full 8CP of command points available. Add a one star into the corps stack and you add 4 additional command points.
********
..."In this vein, if I have a *** General with a 16 CP Corps in a region consisting of 4 divisions, each with a * General, do I have enough leader CP's to fulfill the requirement or is the *** General the only factor and I am thus penalized in combat?"...
If your divisions are in the same stack as the corps your corps command points will contribute to the overall stack cp requirements of your divisions. Each of your divisions requires 4 CP and they each have one brigadier general assigned to them so each of your four divisions is running a deficit of two command points. That is a total deficit of 8 cp's for the four divisions. if those four divisions are placed within the corps stack which has a total of 16 cp's you should have a running total of 8 CP's in the positive.
Divisions not under the command of the corps leader will each suffer their own independent penalties.
**********
Last question CP calculations only apply to the combined cp requirements of units within the same stack.
I hope this has not confused you further.
I suggest you operate your divisions independently of your corps and armies until things are clear in your mind. Divisions do suffer the out of command penalty but in return they offer the opportunity to command 18 elements for the comparatively low cost of only four command points and a division can be fully operational when led by two one star generals. Divisions enable you to use your one star generals to effectively command brigades which are not necessarily the best choice to place into a corps.
*************
This is not the case. A division inside a corps or army stack will give the general's full complement of cps. (4/star)Major Dilemma wrote: -snip- With a division the unit is out of the chain of command even if it is in the same stack as a corps it is not in the chain of command. Therefore there is a 50% penalty. That is why you need two one star or one two star generals to satisfy the CP requirements unless you want to suffer the penalty of insufficient command for that division.
Again, just to be clear. Any generals in a corps or army stack are 'in' and will give their full cp value.Major Dilemma wrote:-snip- Divisions do not benefit from the chain of command and therefore the command point requirement must be satisfied with sufficient generals to overcome the out of command penalty which is 50%.
A corps/army can give up to 18 cps from generals only. (19 if you count the aide de camp) Four divisions in a corps/army stack will always cost 16 cps. There is no 50% penalty inside either of those stacks.Major Dilemma wrote:If your divisions are in the same stack as the corps your corps command points will contribute to the overall stack cp requirements of your divisions. Each of your divisions requires 4 CP and they each have one brigadier general assigned to them so each of your four divisions is running a deficit of two command points. That is a total deficit of 8 cp's for the four divisions. if those four divisions are placed within the corps stack which has a total of 16 cp's you should have a running total of 8 CP's in the positive.
This advice can be risky. Units in a stack (be they brigades, divisions, individual elements) do not all engage in every fight. A division engaging as a whole will always fare better than individual brigades coming piece-meal. There are always plenty of occasions for independent divisions, but they really function at their best in corps/army stacks.Major Dilemma wrote:I suggest you operate your divisions independently of your corps and armies until things are clear in your mind. Divisions do suffer the out of command penalty but in return they offer the opportunity to command 18 elements for the comparatively low cost of only four command points and a division can be fully operational when led by two one star generals. Divisions enable you to use your one star generals to effectively command brigades which are not necessarily the best choice to place into a corps.
My name is Aaron.
Knight of New Hampshire
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Major Dilemma
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Glad you cleared that up. I did not know division leaders lend their full cp's to a corps stack. Probably because I never put divisions within a Corps. (I rarely keep them in the same region as a corps either). I should not have spoken about it to confuse someone.
On a related note: How is it I can have an army stack with 24 CP's? (no divisions within it)
On a related note: How is it I can have an army stack with 24 CP's? (no divisions within it)
No worries. Now you know too!Major Dilemma wrote:Glad you cleared that up. I did not know division leaders lend their full cp's to a corps stack. Probably because I never put divisions within a Corps. (I rarely keep them in the same region as a corps either). I should not have spoken about it to confuse someone.
You broke your game?Major Dilemma wrote:On a related note: How is it I can have an army stack with 24 CP's? (no divisions within it)
Yeah, you can't. Unless multiple signal companies stack, but I don't think they do. I have never tried to find out. What was the composition? Do you have a screen shot?
My name is Aaron.
Knight of New Hampshire
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Major Dilemma
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I do have Lee with 24 cp's for his stack. Needless to say I was quite pleased. I have often got the Army to 23 but only once to 24. I think it may have to do with his strategy value. (I use random generated ratings).
I do have the game saved and I have installed that FastStone image viewer program but i don't know how to use it.. doh i guess i could try but really i think the additional cp's are a result of exceptional strat values.
I guess the aide de camp thing allows a general to aid his own camp/dunno for sure.
It is the game (against the AI) where I got Lee to 2399 power before 1863 in his army stack with no divisions. I keep repeating it but nobody seems to notice...
I do have the game saved and I have installed that FastStone image viewer program but i don't know how to use it.. doh i guess i could try but really i think the additional cp's are a result of exceptional strat values.
I guess the aide de camp thing allows a general to aid his own camp/dunno for sure.
It is the game (against the AI) where I got Lee to 2399 power before 1863 in his army stack with no divisions. I keep repeating it but nobody seems to notice...
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Gray_Lensman
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Strategic rating does nothing for cps outside of needing a 4+ to be able to count as an aide de camp. What other generals are in the stack?Major Dilemma wrote:I do have Lee with 24 cp's for his stack. Needless to say I was quite pleased. I have often got the Army to 23 but only once to 24. I think it may have to do with his strategy value. (I use random generated ratings).
I do have the game saved and I have installed that FastStone image viewer program but i don't know how to use it.. doh i guess i could try but really i think the additional cp's are a result of exceptional strat values.
I guess the aide de camp thing allows a general to aid his own camp/dunno for sure.
It is the game (against the AI) where I got Lee to 2399 power before 1863 in his army stack with no divisions. I keep repeating it but nobody seems to notice...
And regarding your power in that stack... I am not trying to be rude, but it really just doesn't matter. There is no question that with properly led, experienced divisions you can achieve much higher numbers. I'm glad that the set-up works well for you. Whatever get's you a 'W' and keeps you having fun is all that matters.
My name is Aaron.
Knight of New Hampshire
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I tried to use the faststone program but the screen shot did not show what the info is when I hover the mouse pointer over the stack since by the time I take the screen shot I have moved my mouse to operate the faststone software. How do you capture the data revealed by the tooltip? Thanks.
I do not have the Lee example any more but I do have Beauregard with 20 cp's he is just himself and Huger. By himself he has 16 and I add Huger and now the army has 20. I add another general and it is still capped at 20 cp's, no other units at all just the two generals and he has 20 cp's. So then with the balloon and the signal corps and an aide de camp I can see how I would get the 24. But is there something wrong with my install?
I can't display this info without relying on the tooltip and of course i have to use the mouse to operate the screencap software. perhaps there are keyboard commands for the screencap software which can avoid this problem.
I do not have the Lee example any more but I do have Beauregard with 20 cp's he is just himself and Huger. By himself he has 16 and I add Huger and now the army has 20. I add another general and it is still capped at 20 cp's, no other units at all just the two generals and he has 20 cp's. So then with the balloon and the signal corps and an aide de camp I can see how I would get the 24. But is there something wrong with my install?
I can't display this info without relying on the tooltip and of course i have to use the mouse to operate the screencap software. perhaps there are keyboard commands for the screencap software which can avoid this problem.
To quote the wiki: "If a corps or an army stack: Army commander’s strategic rating minus two (can give negative effects too!)."
So there you go. We both learned somethin'!
Thanks for forcing me to dig a bit deeper. So Lee's strat is how you are getting up to that level. (And I would imagine, a signal corps as well.)
So there you go. We both learned somethin'!
Thanks for forcing me to dig a bit deeper. So Lee's strat is how you are getting up to that level. (And I would imagine, a signal corps as well.)My name is Aaron.
Knight of New Hampshire
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Major Dilemma
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Hmm I re-read page 22 of the manual it say 16 is the max.. Beauregard has 16 to start and since the army HQ he is combined with requires four should he start with 8? He is three stars so he gives 12 right? subtract four for the HQ and the stack with just him should be 12 minus the four right? But he starts with sixteen and I can increase it to a cap of 20 adding any other general.
What should he be combined with HQ alone in his stack? 8 or 12 or 16?
Thanks
What should he be combined with HQ alone in his stack? 8 or 12 or 16?
Thanks
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Major Dilemma
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Oh good I'm glad i don't have to re-install.. As for the Beauregard example he has 6 strategy in that game. So do the numbers make sense? How does it calculate out when beauregard has 6 strat? Should he have a 20 cap with one other brigadier general? I take it he gets a plus two from the six strat? I guess lee had a 7 strategy rating in the previous example? I think that sounds correct.
Thanks
ugh I see now 6 minus two = 4 it is getting late.
***************
rather than post yet another comment I'll just add what i've learned here.
I think it is a fact once the army HQ is combined it no longer demands the 4 cp's. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.
If an army general has a strat value of 4 he gains a two command point bonus to the max cp's for his stack increasing his max to 18.
Add the balloon and the signal corps and he has his standard 21 cap since those units are not subject to the maximum. The maximum only applies to what generals can contribute to the stack and the base max is 16.
any strategy rating over two increases this max so again if the strat is 4 then there are two cp's added to the max the generals can contribute.
so then the overall cap is
21 for an army general with a strat of 4,
22 with a strat of 5,
23 with a strat of 6, and 24 with a strat of 7 etc.
and this max can go negative for an army as well if the commander has a strategy rating of less than two.
******
aides de camp I think but am not sure they can help the corps but not the army? It is for another day i suppose.
Thanks
ugh I see now 6 minus two = 4 it is getting late.
***************
rather than post yet another comment I'll just add what i've learned here.
I think it is a fact once the army HQ is combined it no longer demands the 4 cp's. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.
If an army general has a strat value of 4 he gains a two command point bonus to the max cp's for his stack increasing his max to 18.
Add the balloon and the signal corps and he has his standard 21 cap since those units are not subject to the maximum. The maximum only applies to what generals can contribute to the stack and the base max is 16.
any strategy rating over two increases this max so again if the strat is 4 then there are two cp's added to the max the generals can contribute.
so then the overall cap is
21 for an army general with a strat of 4,
22 with a strat of 5,
23 with a strat of 6, and 24 with a strat of 7 etc.
and this max can go negative for an army as well if the commander has a strategy rating of less than two.
******
aides de camp I think but am not sure they can help the corps but not the army? It is for another day i suppose.
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Gray_Lensman
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Major Dilemma
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Gray_Lensman wrote:It can get a little difficult at times to "capture" the tooltip, however it helps to go into the "Media" tab of the "Options" box and set the "Tooltip Delay" to High (all the way to the right). That'll slow the tooltip appearance down. The rest is up to your nimble fingers.
Thanks I'll copy and paste this into my useful info text file to save for the day when i will undoubtedly need it. That's a gem of info i don't want to lose ; )
[color="Blue"]Though it is frowned upon, we also cut new forum members some slack while they are getting familiar with the forum and how things usually are doneGray_Lensman wrote:Yes, you posted this same exact post over an hour ago. Considering Soloswolf and Major Dilemma took the time to give you detailed answers over there, I suggest you return to your original post and read the answers provided. Double posting on any forum, not just AGEod's is generally frowned on for just this reason.
In any case, merged the two threads, so we have everything in one place[/color]
Just to clarify......
If I have a corps stack with a 2 star general containing with 3 divisions (and 3accompanying 1 star generals), have I satisfied the CP requirement of 12 so that I am not penalized?
Likewise, if I have an army stack with a 3 star general containing 2 corps (with two 2 star generals) containing a total of 6 divisions (each with a 1 star general) am in compliance with the CP requirement of 4?
Thanks
If I have a corps stack with a 2 star general containing with 3 divisions (and 3accompanying 1 star generals), have I satisfied the CP requirement of 12 so that I am not penalized?
Likewise, if I have an army stack with a 3 star general containing 2 corps (with two 2 star generals) containing a total of 6 divisions (each with a 1 star general) am in compliance with the CP requirement of 4?
Thanks
Leeds wrote:If I have a corps stack with a 2 star general containing with 3 divisions (and 3accompanying 1 star generals), have I satisfied the CP requirement of 12 so that I am not penalized?
Most likely. It will depend on the army and corps commanders (e.g. having some really bad special abilitiies), but I can't recall seeing a corps with less than 12 CP of leaders
Leeds wrote:Likewise, if I have an army stack with a 3 star general containing 2 corps (with two 2 star generals) containing a total of 6 divisions (each with a 1 star general) am in compliance with the CP requirement of 4?
An army stack cannot contain corps. Also, I'm not sure what you have in mind when you refer to a CP requirement of 4? Can you clarify, please?
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Major Dilemma
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Major Tom
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Major Dilemma wrote:Is it true the army HQ requires four cp's until it is combined to create an army?
I'm still pretty new to the game myself, but I can answer this one with certainty: even after combining to create an army, the HQ requires 4 CP's. Stacks max out at 16 CP (more with bonuses), so an Army HQ stack can only have 3 divisions without penalty, while a Corps division can have 4. With bonuses you can get those numbers up to 4 for an Army and 5 for a Corps. I'm not sure it's possible to get up to the 24 CP it would take to keep 6 divisions in a stack without penalty.
This, along with the command chain bonus, is why you should concentrate power in your Corps stacks over your Army HQ.
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kglorberau
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kglorberau wrote:Stupid question I know....but what is a General's "strategic rating"??
Is it how well he fights, defends, etc (the three numbes at the bottom of his elements info), or that he fights better in certain strategic areas (Mississippi, Virginia, etc).
Kglorberau
Strategic rating is the capacity to act : The higher the strategic rating, the higher the probability a general will be active. 3 means 50% chance of being active, 6 means 100%.
An inactive general will not be able to :
- Attack
- Take command of a division
If inactive he will be penalized :
- Move slower
- Penality in battle if the region is not fully under control of his side
More information here.
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