Still no ETA about VGN? Not even an approximation?
GShock wrote:Ehhhh we lost you to VGN but i can feel it that you want to come back to AACW.
Still no ETA about VGN? Not even an approximation?
My AACW mod isn't shelved but at last I feel I'm nearing completion. ajor tweaks are made and the last parts of the works are mostly events for USA AI. In reality, most of the time devoted in the past to the mod was....reading, to get indepth info on battle tactics, OOB at start, events. Another was to debug Kentucky overhaul. The last was understanding of the modding language...
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Vng
Who cares what the time scale of turns are, all i care about is wether it will have the same addictive qualitys of Imperialism1, in imp1 every choice in every turn made a difference and you were'nt always sure you made the right choice, i recently tried europa universalis 3 and the game play was'nt there for me, i felt i could go off and do something else and come back and i would'nt have missed much even though it was real time, it says it all for me that im still playing a game that is ten years old "long live Imperialism".
If VNG has anything like the gameplay and addictiveness of imp1 i'll love it, from what ive seen so far its going in the right direction, the key to imp1 i thought was the way you micro managed your capitol and your surrounding provincial towns developed automatically off the back of what you did there, and by the transport network connecting it to the city, I even got a buzz off seeing my little town graphics grow as my towns developed. this was another fault i found with europa you seemed to have to manage each province personally, too much effort imho, feel free to correct me if im wrong i only tried the game once and thought "blah".
If VNG has anything like the gameplay and addictiveness of imp1 i'll love it, from what ive seen so far its going in the right direction, the key to imp1 i thought was the way you micro managed your capitol and your surrounding provincial towns developed automatically off the back of what you did there, and by the transport network connecting it to the city, I even got a buzz off seeing my little town graphics grow as my towns developed. this was another fault i found with europa you seemed to have to manage each province personally, too much effort imho, feel free to correct me if im wrong i only tried the game once and thought "blah".
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Primasprit
- Posts: 1614
- Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:44 pm
- Location: Germany
VGN (right abreviation this time)
Hello all, dont get me wrong i love micromanagement too but i think you can take it too far, especially in EU3 were there are lots of provinces, micro management of each province would have worked in imp1 though as the maps were'nt that big, I think the growth of your provinces being directly linked to your capitol through your transport network though works better, it means you have a central location to go and do your management tasks. I may be giving EU3 an unfair label i didnt play it for more than a couple of hours, but to me that was enough, if a game does'nt grab me almost imediately then theres something wrong in my view. Hopefully VGN will have this and make you want to take that next turn.
Unfortunately this means that a grand campaign lasting from 1850-1920 is 1,680 turns and therefore nigh unplayable. Maybe a quarterly frequency is a little too low, but at least don't go higher than Monthly.Pocus wrote:Lower as less? When you move toward industrial warfare, the tempo of war accelerate. With 3 months a turn, the French-Prussian War or Crimean War would have no interest for example.
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BreckInridge
- Corporal
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:05 pm
- Location: Houston, Tx
Quote
"the key to imp1 i thought was the way you micro managed your capitol and your surrounding provincial towns developed automatically off the back of what you did there, and by the transport network connecting it to the city, I even got a buzz off seeing my little town graphics grow as my towns developed. this was another fault i found with europa you seemed to have to manage each province personally, too much effort imho"
A good concept on growth. My main dissapointment with EU3 was the provinces were too generic. A snowy mountain or a desert could obtain the same development as a verdant valley. Yes the capital should develop and trade lanes should prosper, but the majority of land should stand on its own merits. Why else did the vikings rampage out of Norway than to get something better to eat.
And along with that, and not precisely in EU3, the abilty to give away or spin off dead beat provinces that you would rather not trouble with. I mean, even the US gave the deserts to the indians.
"the key to imp1 i thought was the way you micro managed your capitol and your surrounding provincial towns developed automatically off the back of what you did there, and by the transport network connecting it to the city, I even got a buzz off seeing my little town graphics grow as my towns developed. this was another fault i found with europa you seemed to have to manage each province personally, too much effort imho"
A good concept on growth. My main dissapointment with EU3 was the provinces were too generic. A snowy mountain or a desert could obtain the same development as a verdant valley. Yes the capital should develop and trade lanes should prosper, but the majority of land should stand on its own merits. Why else did the vikings rampage out of Norway than to get something better to eat.
And along with that, and not precisely in EU3, the abilty to give away or spin off dead beat provinces that you would rather not trouble with. I mean, even the US gave the deserts to the indians.
Eu3
I had a bigger issue with EU3, i was allied with a minor nation when they were attacked, to keep my countrys stability and world reputation i agreed to help, not long into the war my allie took peace with the attacker and left me alone at war "charming" to add insult to injury they broke their alliance with me, i presume to keep their treaty with the other guy. During the war we went back and forth till eventually i decided to go in mob handed, i built a huge army and navy and was ready to attack their country when the computer took a "white peace" on my behalf without even asking me, i was left with this huge force and no idea what to do with it, i was livid so i quit the game without saving, on a plus point though i did like the way the combat was done, in these types of game there is no need for manual combat and i thought it was nice how it was done in EU3, listing the casualtys and allocating named leaders to units gave them a bit of personality, I have to agree with Phillipe a detailed auto combat system is all thats needed in these games, manuel combat just slows the pace of the game imo.
VGN Game turn timescale.
I can see your point GREATONE 1600turns is a lot, but i also see POCUS'S point that large timescale turns would make certain small historical events not worth covering. I know nothing about programming or game development but to stay with pocus's timescale maybe a feature could be put in to enable players to pick a start and finish date within the timeline of the game, me and my friends like to play these games over several sessions and have no problem playing a 1600 turn game, as long as its stable and has a good save facility, but if you could select a start and finish date players could customise the length and time of their game to suit them, or choose the grand campaign and play the whole game.
p.s going back to me and my friends will it have hotseat play?, its no biggy but it saves lugging computers about, online plays ok but its no substitute for seeing your mates face drop when you kick him.
p.s going back to me and my friends will it have hotseat play?, its no biggy but it saves lugging computers about, online plays ok but its no substitute for seeing your mates face drop when you kick him.
The Grand Grand Campaign is indeed 1680 turns long. Yes it is much, too much, but the choice was still to have 15-days turn. The good news is that you will have several Grand Campaigns, each starting and ending at different dates, so you won't have to play the GGC if you prefer only a GC 
Also considers that Paradox scheme is continuous time, but in effect you have daily turns. Nobody complained that Victoria is 365x70 turns long
Last, a GGC is needed. People want the big things. But 90% of them (and us, we have the same behavior as players), never finish a GC. How many Grand Campaigns you started and how many you finished? See the ratio... So the GGC will be there, but for more practical purpose you will have several GC, spanning only 100 to 200 turns, focused on a war or specific situation. In the end, for an overwhelming majority of people, it is not a problem to have a 1600 turns campaign, because most people restart a game well before that. And for those who don't restart, then they are of the kind to like very very long games and do want their 1600 turns of gaming pleasure.
This is all because we will propose alternate Grand Campaigns... You'll have choice!
Also considers that Paradox scheme is continuous time, but in effect you have daily turns. Nobody complained that Victoria is 365x70 turns long
Last, a GGC is needed. People want the big things. But 90% of them (and us, we have the same behavior as players), never finish a GC. How many Grand Campaigns you started and how many you finished? See the ratio... So the GGC will be there, but for more practical purpose you will have several GC, spanning only 100 to 200 turns, focused on a war or specific situation. In the end, for an overwhelming majority of people, it is not a problem to have a 1600 turns campaign, because most people restart a game well before that. And for those who don't restart, then they are of the kind to like very very long games and do want their 1600 turns of gaming pleasure.
This is all because we will propose alternate Grand Campaigns... You'll have choice!
Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."
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Franciscus
- Posts: 4571
- Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:31 pm
- Location: Portugal
Pocus wrote:This is all because we will propose alternate Grand Campaigns... You'll have choice!
Absolutely 100% in favor ! The more choices the better.
(Just for a joke, though, and considering that in AACW and due to RL, I manage to scrap at most 1 or 2 turns a day, a GGC in VGN will last me around 3 years - that's value for money
)Pocus wrote: How many Grand Campaigns you started and how many you finished?
Wait ! Are GC supposed to be finished ??
VGN map
I read earlier pocus that the VGN map was going to be the biggest you've done to date, im not such a fan of this. In EU3 i lost two provinces and there did'nt seem any urgency to take them back, i certainly did'nt feel my economy suffered, in Imperialism your country was made up at best of 8 provinces, due to your transport network if an enemy took the right province he could cut off your entire resource, completely disrupting your infrastructure, the other great thing about this in Imperialism was i did'nt need to go into any sub menus to see what damage had been done, i could see on screen what resources had been cut off, it also turned the depot flags red to show they were'nt connected to your capitol if that was'nt enough, simple but very effective, for me big is not always best content, playability and accessability are what makes a game for me. Im praying you get this right Pocus its time Imperialism past on the standard and stood down. GOODLUCK
The VGN map will be the biggest we have done so far, because it represents the world, but actually you'll get less regions to play the ACW on VGN than in AGEOD's ACW, to give you an idea of the scale. I think I counted 7 regions between Paris and Berlin last time I checked.
Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."
The Large Map in VGN?
Pocus wrote:The VGN map will be the biggest we have done so far, because it represents the world, but actually you'll get less regions to play the ACW on VGN than in AGEOD's ACW, to give you an idea of the scale. I think I counted 7 regions between Paris and Berlin last time I checked.
You have extended the map to include one of the planets allegedly circling the nearest star, Alpha Centauri (as in the Sid Meiers game by the same name)??
Bob Riley
BobR in New Mexico, USA
--
"Let there be peace on earth, and let it begin with me." This is our function, our challenge, our fulfillment - and our inheritance, to accept and to share.
--
"Let there be peace on earth, and let it begin with me." This is our function, our challenge, our fulfillment - and our inheritance, to accept and to share.
I see what you're trying to do, but I just hope that there isn't too much to do each turn.Pocus wrote:The Grand Grand Campaign is indeed 1680 turns long. Yes it is much, too much, but the choice was still to have 15-days turn. The good news is that you will have several Grand Campaigns, each starting and ending at different dates, so you won't have to play the GGC if you prefer only a GC
Also considers that Paradox scheme is continuous time, but in effect you have daily turns. Nobody complained that Victoria is 365x70 turns long
Last, a GGC is needed. People want the big things. But 90% of them (and us, we have the same behavior as players), never finish a GC. How many Grand Campaigns you started and how many you finished? See the ratio... So the GGC will be there, but for more practical purpose you will have several GC, spanning only 100 to 200 turns, focused on a war or specific situation. In the end, for an overwhelming majority of people, it is not a problem to have a 1600 turns campaign, because most people restart a game well before that. And for those who don't restart, then they are of the kind to like very very long games and do want their 1600 turns of gaming pleasure.
This is all because we will propose alternate Grand Campaigns... You'll have choice!
VGN Trade
Hello pocus, sorry to be a bother im sure you've already answered these questions.
I wanted to know is the trade in vgn going to be a random sale of goods just to make money, or worse just a figure stateing income from trade, or is it going to be more practical like in Imperialism were you can sell surplus goods and buy goods your empire needs to expand?.
I wanted to know is the trade in vgn going to be a random sale of goods just to make money, or worse just a figure stateing income from trade, or is it going to be more practical like in Imperialism were you can sell surplus goods and buy goods your empire needs to expand?.
On with the Show!!
Now with WIA basically tucked away!! LOL Now we can see some greater progress on VGN. Hope you guys are not hurt with the global depression. Best, 
apy:
apy: 
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BreckInridge
- Corporal
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:05 pm
- Location: Houston, Tx
Pocus wrote:The Grand Grand Campaign is indeed 1680 turns long. Yes it is much, too much, but the choice was still to have 15-days turn. The good news is that you will have several Grand Campaigns, each starting and ending at different dates, so you won't have to play the GGC if you prefer only a GC
Also considers that Paradox scheme is continuous time, but in effect you have daily turns. Nobody complained that Victoria is 365x70 turns long
Last, a GGC is needed. People want the big things. But 90% of them (and us, we have the same behavior as players), never finish a GC. How many Grand Campaigns you started and how many you finished? See the ratio... So the GGC will be there, but for more practical purpose you will have several GC, spanning only 100 to 200 turns, focused on a war or specific situation. In the end, for an overwhelming majority of people, it is not a problem to have a 1600 turns campaign, because most people restart a game well before that. And for those who don't restart, then they are of the kind to like very very long games and do want their 1600 turns of gaming pleasure.
This is all because we will propose alternate Grand Campaigns... You'll have choice!
Fifteen days is exactly right. Most of the wars in this period were quite short, and need that time frame to be interesting.
I also hope that you will keep sufficient military detail in the game to reflect the feel and glory of the period, as do BOA, Napoleon's Campaigns, and American Civil War.
Please do not dumb this down.
I think a detailed auto combat system similar to EU3 is more than enough for these types of game, war to me is just a small part of the overall picture in an empire building game, as for the turns im with pocus my friends and i very rarely take a game to its conclusion and playing over several sessions we have no problem taking on a game with 1600 turns to complete, value for money i say.
Details?
I do not want to micro-manage everything in the game! I am going to buy this game, even if I have to mortgage my house, again!! But, It will gather dust if I have to micro-manage every little (or not so) province. Yuck!! 
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