Becoming unsupplied in supplied regions?

[Heldenkaiser]

Usually, if a region shows green on the supply filter map, and a unit just sits there, completely stationary, it shouldn't run out of supply, or? But in some regions, my units do. Hard, KY, seems to be a problem (adjacent regions in generally the same situation aren't), and the region two west of New Madrid also just made one sedentary militia become completely unsupplied within a few turns. Any idea what is going on there? Or am I missing something? Thanks.

[Banks6060]

according to my knowledge...the only way a unit will remain supplied, away from a depot is if it has supply wagons. OR if it's in a civilized road one region away from a depot....or civilized railroad, TWO regions away. Otherwise they're considered too far away for priority and don't receive those supplies.

I'm not totally clear on this though.

[Rafiki]

The green areas in the supply overview indicate, AFAIK, wher it is possible for supply to reach under ideal circumstances. weather and suchlike can make for shorter ranges.

In any case, I recommend taking a look at http://www.ageod.net/aacwwiki/Supply

[Jabberwock]

There are several regions north of the Missouri River that suffer from this effect, notably Gallatin and Mexico, MO. They are on the railroads, but too far from depots for effective supply. It tends to happen in south-central Virginia a lot, too.

[Pocus]

A region in green is a region where the supply can pass thru, nothing more. If you station an army, it can be such a sinkhole that, depending of the quality of the supply net around, supply can't arrive in large quantity enough.

[Heldenkaiser]

Thank you, Gentlemen. Is there an easy way to find out how far the supply network reaches? As, apparantely, the map filter doesn't do that?

[Rafiki]

The supply map filter also shows how large stocks you have of supply in various locations. Combine that with what is written about supply distribution in the wiki article I linked to, and you should be able to form an impression of it, at least.

[Heldenkaiser]

I believe I get it now ... thanks as always, Rafiki.

[Rafiki]

My pleasure

If you find that the wiki article is lacking in some way (as I know it is), make sure to point it out, or perhaps even update yourself! I think it's pretty good, but it can still stand some additions and updates.

[TeMagic]

I learnt this the hard way. In 1863 I launched an invasion of Kentucky with the bulk of the Army of Tennessee, two infantry corps, 60 000 men, and a cavalry corps, 15 000 men. Captured Louiseville and Lexington, inaugurated a Kentucky governor in Frankfort and held the frontline along the river running north from Louiseville. Then, in two turns, I lost the entire army, as it ran out of supply... 70 000 men lost without battle. The frontline, all the way to Decatur, Alabama open to the enemy.

In my current game, I've made sure to build depots at Fort Donelson and Bowling Greene, and have ordered up suppu wagons to build another one at Colombus. For my 1863 offensive (it's nov. 1861 at current) I'll make sure to extend the supply depots running north from Bowling Greene to Louiseville. Unfortunately, Kentucky went with the Union this time around (I did it on purpose, as I'm getting tired of the AI attacking a KY militia in spring of 1861, wrecking the AI's ability to commence offensives in the West).

[chainsaw]

In my current game, I've made sure to build depots at Fort Donelson and Bowling Greene, and have ordered up suppu wagons to build another one at Colombus. For my 1863 offensive (it's nov. 1861 at current)

Cheaper alternative to wagons is river transports - two transports can make a depot just like two wagons (but the depot must be a port). Once you focus on the rivers and bypass the rails you can make some deep sweeping moves.

[Hobbes]

Usually, if a region shows green on the supply filter map, and a unit just sits there, completely stationary, it shouldn't run out of supply, or? But in some regions, my units do. Hard, KY, seems to be a problem (adjacent regions in generally the same situation aren't), and the region two west of New Madrid also just made one sedentary militia become completely unsupplied within a few turns. Any idea what is going on there? Or am I missing something? Thanks.

There is a problem with this region that Gene and I mentioned some months ago. For reasons that could not be understood any unit stationed in Hard will run out of supply.

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=6512&highlight=hard

Cheers, Chris

[arsan]

There is a problem with this region that Gene and I mentioned some months ago. For reasons that could not be understood any unit stationed in Hard will run out of supply.

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=6512&highlight=hard

Cheers, Chris

Hard, KY... the AGEOD's Bermudas Triangle!!

[Coregonas]

One of the CSA (volunteer?) brigades starts locked in Virginia a couple turns in the 61, and runs out of supply, losing a few thousand troops in the turn before it can be moved.

It is on a railroad, 1 area from a city. and perhaps 4 areas away from Richmond.

That can be another of my small X-files in this great game. Some cavalries or other units must be sent help it in the last turn just to avoid achieving unsupplied status.

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Brochgale]

Sorry, need more information... What region, which scenario April or July?

I think he means the Reserve Brigade SW Of Charlottesville AND ON RR ON WAY TO Covington. The first turn after it unlocks it is always unsupplied and you get a message in log to that effect.

[arsan]

Yes, that "locked in place to starve" situation its pretty absurd.
It has been there since the 1.00 version
It happens in the April scenario.
The region is Stauton, VA
The unit is the 3rd Reserve Bde.
It appears in early june locked in place for 3 turns.
We have been talking about this and the also strange setup of the Shenanoah Valley force under J.E. Johnston (locked "on the wild" and unable to regain strenght for 3 turns) here:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=9156

Regards

[Brochgale]

Yes, that "locked in place to starve" situation its pretty absurd.
It has been there since the 1.00 version
It happens in the April scenario.
The region is Stauton, VA
The unit is the 3rd Reserve Bde.
It appears in early june locked in place for 3 turns.
We have been talking about this and the also strange setup of the Shenanoah Valley force under J.E. Johnston (locked "on the wild" and unable to regain strenght for 3 turns) here:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=9156

Regards

In more than one game I have had AI attack JE Johnstons force - unlockimg it without destroying it. In another game it got nearly wiped out out before it unlocked when it got attacked in force by AI - normally now when it unlocks I send that force to Charlotteville where I now always build a supply depot. I now just give up on Winchester and Shenandoah. I even destroy depot at Manassas as I can see no practical way to defend it?

[Coregonas]

Sorry, need more information... What region, which scenario April or July?

I believe its 3rd res bde / Stauton VA as arsan says. This brigade is there in both scenarios April & July. 12 locomotives are needed to move a wagon into it on the second turn of the July 61 campaign


I believe it should be better to be put directly in the city nearby, although "unhistorical"...

also... another little question I will change!

I believe most of the locked Supply Wagons (and some of those regular artilleries) should just be unlocked, or at least have them some (8 for instance) turns to unlock.

Im talking for example on those wagons/regular arty on Norfolk or Ft H&D. They are totally unuseful once a bit turns get around. Just cannon fodder for the enemy raising a couple promotions.

I ve tried saving them by stationing corps/divisions and attaching these units. If the enemy attacks them, sometimes these can be used!

It could be posible to mod- and unlock them if an enemy ship/troop gets an adjacent region, instead of attack ?

[TeMagic]

Cheaper alternative to wagons is river transports - two transports can make a depot just like two wagons (but the depot must be a port). Once you focus on the rivers and bypass the rails you can make some deep sweeping moves.

Yes, I use the starting transport-ships to build depots at Shreveport, LA and Fort Donelson, TN. As for transports being cheaper than wagons, I'll have to check this. It never occured to me that this might be the case.... If so, future depots at Dallas, TX and Columbus, KY will be built by transport ships as well. Thanks for the advice.

[Brochgale]

Yes, I use the starting transport-ships to build depots at Shreveport, LA and Fort Donelson, TN. As for transports being cheaper than wagons, I'll have to check this. It never occured to me that this might be the case.... If so, future depots at Dallas, TX and Columbus, KY will be built by transport ships as well. Thanks for the advice.

Transports are cheaper. The difference is they take longer to build? Wagons get up to full strength faster?

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Gray_Lensman]

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[Pocus]

Johnston situation is suboptimal indeed. At least there must be a script adding 250 supply in Winchester the same turn.

[Pocus]

Yes, that "locked in place to starve" situation its pretty absurd.
It has been there since the 1.00 version
It happens in the April scenario.
The region is Stauton, VA
The unit is the 3rd Reserve Bde.
It appears in early june locked in place for 3 turns.
We have been talking about this and the also strange setup of the Shenanoah Valley force under J.E. Johnston (locked "on the wild" and unable to regain strenght for 3 turns) here:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=9156

Regards

It's in Rockbridge, you misleading Spaniard!

It's wad. A combat unit can only pull supply from the region it is in or adjacent to him, so the 3rd is indeed starving.
Only structures and supply wagons can receive supply from up to 5 regions per supply phase. This is done so that the supply algorithm don't take hours, but can be rationalized I think, and give more emphasis on wagons.

[arsan]

It's in Rockbridge, you misleading Spaniard!

You are right!
But... i get my misleading info from your official Reinforcements list pdf included with the game

As you say, for me, the supply system works right as it is now.
The problem i think is with the initial placement of this reinforcements.

This 3rd Reserve Bde is just annoying, because if you don´t remember to send them a supply wagon ASAP they will lose men from lack of supply. Maybe their appearance region could be moved a little so they get adjacent to the nearby Covington or Charlottesville towns and could receive some supply from there.

The Johnston force case is more tricky. leure:
But they are a very important force which, historically, should be fit to fight Bull Run Battle as summer begins... but they are not by far...
They have no supply problem (no need for the script IMHO) but they regain strength very slowly and, with hardened attrition enabled, they can't recover full missing elements until send to a depot... and they are missing a lot of elements: all of their brigades are missing two or more full elements.
In my current game, its end of august before they are nearly full strength and for this i had been forced to retreat them to Fredericksburg depot, leaving the valley to the federals. Johnston force can't defend it at all with historical attrition enabled. And with normal attrition is still very risky to put them on Winchester to recover strength.
The problem here is not solved by making them appear on Winchester as there is no depot there... bad for playing with historical attrition.
So the solution would be placing the force and a depot on Winchester, or placing a independent depot where the force begins or deeper up the valley and move Johnston there.

By the way, another little problem i had found in this campaign with hardened attrition enable is that the Fort Donelson infantry unit can't recover his missing element as they are permanently locked on the fort with no depot.

Just my 2 cents...
Regards

[Pocus]

for Fort Donelson, so bad for the garrison I mean, they can be resplenished but can't get a new regiment, that's not a biggy for me.

[arsan]

for Fort Donelson, so bad for the garrison I mean, they can be resplenished but can't get a new regiment, that's not a biggy for me.

No, sure Ft Donnelson its not a biggy... but it will be very nice if something could be done with Jonhston "biggy" force

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Coregonas]

Play July Campaign ->1.10 a

T1 -> no problem
T2 half supply spent
T3 all supply spent
T4 no supply left, still no can move, but no unsupply status
T5 -> put on railroad to the nearest city. finishes Unsupply, lost 500 men, and unsupplied status (red naming).