Civil War Historical Accuracy Pre-Patch

[Korrigan]

Yes, the AI is not scripted. Therefore, it can adapt to map improvements and changes.
Don't forget the AI is already adaptating its strategy when you blow up some part of its railroad network. These are also map changes when you think about it.

[Brausepaul]

Thank you for your reply, Gray_Lensmen. Actually my concern about the AI was more targeted on the AI's ability to realize the importance of the RR and to protect it rather than using it for supply and movement. I don't know if the AI actually does take this into account at all, if not the mod can't do any damage, of course. Sorry for not making this point clear in my previous post.

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Gray_Lensman]

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[Gray_Lensman]

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[Gray_Lensman]

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[Jabberwock]

Nice work! Many thx.

[Jabberwock]

Hi Gray -
After reading through the whole thread to catch up on what I've missed while I was MIA, I'm actually relieved to see you haven't got to New York and Illinois yet.

Is there any chance that you could redo the canal links while you're doing railroads? They are already drawn on the map, so no graphics work.

The Illinois & Michigan would be the most important addition, runs from:

Southern Lake Michigan(1360) -> Chicago(859) -> Aurora(864) -> Bureau(863) -> LaSalle Run(1271)

It was the primary reason for Chicago's existence before the railroads; it was the shortest shallow draft passage between the Great Lakes and the Mississippi.

The Erie Canal / Mohawk River runs from:

Eastern Lake Erie(1352) -> Niagara(31) -> Monroe(28) -> Wayne(25) -> Auburn(23) -> Oneida(18) -> Madison(19) -> Montgomery(13) -> Albany(7) -> Upper Hudson River(1124)

Both of these are/were deeper draft than the O & E Canal.

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Gray_Lensman]

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[lodilefty]

I'm afraid canals if done at all, will be way off in the future. They don't contrast very well and therefore are extremely hard to work with. The occasional river edge is hard enough and the few that I have had to work with take hours compared to grabbing up a rail line and blending it in. Towns are a piece of cake. Graphically renaming towns is relatively easy also. Structure names are the easiest of all, because they are actually changes in the database files.

Maybe we can live with the graphics for canals and just do them via jumplinks (I haven't squinted at the map yet, would be glad to take a look at these for you)

I did something like this for my BoA mod to create a 'portage' from the St. Lawrence to Lake Champlain. It works!

[Jabberwock]

They are already on the map. There is no graphics work. JumpLinks is all I was asking for.
We've been living with the O & E graphical situation.

The:

"What O & E?"
"I don't see that on the map?!?"
"Where/what is the O & E?"
"Don't you mean the Erie Canal?"
"I thought that was the Erie Canal?!?"
"You said Erie Canal in your post, so I tried going east from Buffalo, and nothing happened!"

situation. For now, I don't think a non-graphical improvement would be too much for the community to adapt to.

[lodilefty]

They are already on the map. There is no graphics work. JumpLinks is all I was asking for.

27LongTransitionLink would take a ship 20 days start to end
28VeryLong..... would take 40 days

These are clear weather for all things that float.

I'd propose doing a single link froim first point to last for each.

How long would the 'end to end' trip actcually take in those days?

Bear in mind that the USS Michigan[?] could 'escape the lake' with this, which might not be a good thing historically.....

[Jabberwock]

Bear in mind that the USS Michigan[?] could 'escape the lake' with this, which might not be a good thing historically.....

Nope. Upper Hudson and LaSalle Run are shallow. She couldn't do any more than she does now by cruising into western PA. She would be stuck in Albany or northern Illinois instead.

[lodilefty]

Nope. Upper Hudson and LaSalle Run are shallow. She couldn't do any more than she does now by cruising into western PA. She would be stuck in Albany or northern Illinois instead.

OK

I'm testing the I&M now with 20 day transit time....

[Jabberwock]

27LongTransitionLink would take a ship 20 days start to end
28VeryLong..... would take 40 days

These are clear weather for all things that float.

I'd propose doing a single link froim first point to last for each.

How long would the 'end to end' trip actcually take in those days?

On April 10, 1848 mule drawn canal barges began the day-long journey ninety six mile journey between the steamboat basin off the Illinois River at LaSalle and Chicago. At 7:30 p.m. the first boat locked through the canal was floating in Lake Michigan.

Erie Canal was about 4x that long. (363 canal miles from Albany to Buffalo) I would just propose making the passage time for the I & M = the current total passage time used for the O & E. Then multiply by four for the Erie.

[lodilefty]

On April 10, 1848 mule drawn canal barges began the day-long journey ninety six mile journey between the steamboat basin off the Illinois River at LaSalle and Chicago. At 7:30 p.m. the first boat locked through the canal was floating in Lake Michigan.

Erie Canal was about 4x that long. (363 canal miles from Albany to Buffalo) I would just propose making the passage time for the I & M = the current total passage time used for the O & E. Then multiply by four for the Erie.

If you can live with 20 day transit for both, it works!

Gray: the regions involved are lake/river water bodies. You're best positioned to tell us if those get affcted by your work.
I could forward the rgn files to you to include in next update if you wish.

[Jabberwock]

If you can live with 20 day transit for both, it works!

Gray: the regions involved are lake/river water bodies. You're best positioned to tell us if those get affcted by your work.
I could forward the rgn files to you to include in next update if you wish.

Sounds good to me. I would've preferred a six day time for the I & M, like the O & E has currently, but it is a big improvement over sailing around the lakes, then through Pennsylvania and down the Ohio River. 20 days? Well, we are (always have been) talking about trying to get gunboats down man-made waterways designed for barges. Not a lot of leeway there.

I think it will be much easier for new players to find as well. "You're in Chicago or Detroit. You're trying to get to the Mississippi. Drag the boat west till you reach the Mississippi."

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Gray_Lensman]

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[Gray_Lensman]

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[lodilefty]

You can use #22 JumpLink(s) to get a shorter transit time (supposedly 12 days), so why use #27 (or as you say 20 days)?

In actuality #22 JumpLink(s) are already being used between (36 Erie PA and 38 Centre PA). Is this why you are doubling the time?

I think whoever originally placed the Transition Link between Regions 36 and 38 above, was just limited by having no other shorter time frame Transition Link to utilize.

I overlooked the 22 jumplink.
I'll look at it tomorrow, as I have to work in the real world today [and get paid for it!!!]
I'll examine the region by region method, too....

[lodilefty]

Gray:

[lodilefty]

I don't favor a single link, because it can't be blocked except at the ends. That is counter to the scale of the game. That said, a single link is better than no links at all or a "broken" series of links (excluding actual blockages due to enemy occupation or weather related freezing).

Have you tested the transit times for those Transition JumpLink(s) referred to above. If they are accurate, then the information given me by Pocus was in error, and I may have to do some retesting regarding the Western Boxed regions. In this regard, I actually hope you are correct, because when working the Western Boxed TransLinks, I thought I was working with a choice of 12 days or 48 days. It would have been much better to have a choice of 12, 20, or 40 days.

If you want me to take a look at your information, go ahead and post it here and I'll look it over in the next few days. I'm heading into my long 4-day weekend (real life).

The 20/40 days is for ships. The land unit rates are as you state.

I don't think we can use these links for 'point to point', as then the land movement for foot sloggers would also be affected.

However, afer 'work', I'll experiment using '3FreezeShallow' as a jumplink. If that works, we'll have a 1 day/region transit. Otherwise, we're stuck with a single, long link.....

Or creating a new terrain..... (xxCanal.ter)

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Gray_Lensman]

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[lodilefty]

Jabberwock and lodilefty:

I did a little experimenting today and set up a link using (#22 Transition Link) between 859 Chicago, IL and 1271 LaSalle Run. The movement time was 6 days, which is really not too bad. Also, I noted that it is better to have one end or the other of the Transition Link actually be a Water area. This effectively blocks land units from using the Transition Link. I haven't officially implemented this change just yet, preferring to wait for your input/opinions on this before proceeding, though I can say, I am rather satisfied myself with the results so far.

Regards

Good news! And a creative approach!
I'm at 'real work' right now. I still want to explore the effect of "Coastal" used as a Jumplink. After all, I haven't crashed ExMap lately.....

[Jabberwock]

Jabberwock and lodilefty:

I did a little experimenting today and set up a link using (#22 Transition Link) between 859 Chicago, IL and 1271 LaSalle Run. The movement time was 6 days, which is really not too bad. Also, I noted that it is better to have one end or the other of the Transition Link actually be a Water area. This effectively blocks land units from using the Transition Link. I haven't officially implemented this change just yet, preferring to wait for your input/opinions on this before proceeding, though I can say, I am rather satisfied myself with the results so far.

Regards

Excellent - I just double-checked, Joliet Landing and Middle Hudson are both shallow, so the USS Michigan still can't escape if you do it that way. I also just built a monitor in Rochester . . . . . . can I get up the Genesee as far as the canal to escape?

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Jabberwock]

Yes. I have no problem with making the time longer than a quick run would take historically. It should be in proportion. It should be the equivalent of what we are using now. The EC is almost exactly 4x as long as the I&M.