Teleport & create Corps BUG

[Coregonas]

Hi everybody

As I am every day trying to find small little tricks to upgrade my performance against the USA hordes... I ve found a trick that seems like a BUG to me.

Dont know if yet reported. Have not seen in the forums.

a) I teleport a 2* General far from an army to a place near one.

b) Then... I make him a corps commander

c) then i click the "un-teleport" button

d) I have a Corps commander (far from the boss, but x2 CPs to all the leaders in the far-far away place)

e) as an extra ! I can teleport another leader

Is this WAD? Is a BUG?

If a WAD! I will use it now!!!
If a BUG... report us this and hope next patch some kind of "un-teleport-discard changes in command" could be thone.

Thanks everybody

[GrudgeBringer]

Dang. I didn't even know you COULD teleport a unit.

Do you have to create a Scotty unit to beam them up?
(just in case your young...Scotty was on Startrek)

[Coregonas]

Well...

Yes AGEOD games has an option to redeploy - "teleport" some support units (mainly leaders)

This is needed (I suppose) mainly for AI reasons, but still dont know what degree of realism means.

[Le Ricain]

Hi everybody

As I am every day trying to find small little tricks to upgrade my performance against the USA hordes... I ve found a trick that seems like a BUG to me.

Dont know if yet reported. Have not seen in the forums.

a) I teleport a 2* General far from an army to a place near one.

b) Then... I make him a corps commander

c) then i click the "un-teleport" button

d) I have a Corps commander (far from the boss, but x2 CPs to all the leaders in the far-far away place)

e) as an extra ! I can teleport another leader

Is this WAD? Is a BUG?

If a WAD! I will use it now!!!
If a BUG... report us this and hope next patch some kind of "un-teleport-discard changes in command" could be thone.

Thanks everybody

This has been discussed in another thread. The consensus of opinion seemed to be split between those who thought that this was a cheat and those who thought that this was acceptable.

The reason given for the acceptance was something along the lines of a quick meeting between army commander and a newly appointed corps commander or appointing a corps commander by telegram. Myself, I think that this tactic is OK.

[arsan]

Well, i'm sure it's not WAD
Does the leader keep the corps capabilities the next turns??
Cheers

[arsan]

This has been discussed in another thread. The consensus of opinion seemed to be split between those who thought that this was a cheat and those who thought that this was acceptable.

The reason given for the acceptance was something along the lines of a quick meeting between army commander and a newly appointed corps commander or appointing a corps commander by telegram. Myself, I think that this tactic is OK.

Well i think what Coregonas states its a little different (or i have understand wrong).
On the other thread, it was used to change a corps from one army to another when the corps was in the area of influence of both armies.
What Coregonas explains suppose you can instantly make stack with a 2** leader on Kansas (for example) a corps of the ANV situated on Manassas, just by teleporting in an out, getting double command points
I would say the first thing is a little trick which improves an interface limitation (change from one army to another when botha are on range).
The other is an extremely gamey trick that exploits the interface and should be fixed...
Regards

[Coregonas]

Thanks Le Ricain!



So... I can consider this in my profit! I can use it.

...I ll try to search again that forum

Arsan

Well... it does not retain bonuses if far from the army commander... but... it is still a corps, so x2 CP bonus, and...

Still not sure if 2 corps created in such a way can help themselves wit the "march to the sound of guns"... Never had an opportunity to test it myself.

[arsan]

Coregonas,

This is the thread Le Ricain was talking about

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=7574

Regards

[Coregonas]

Oh... now i ve read that thread.

It is the same "trick" with a different use.

The teleport button was used in that thread to try to force the corps commander to the "selected" general when 2 armies are on range.

I suppose the way is --- teleporting the corps commander to a place just 1 area far from the non-desired army commander.

I refered to send my 2* general from the kingdom of far-far-away (for instance the indian lands) to the ANV... and coming back--> of course that can not be done with a formal meeting... Perhaps the telegram should work!

i.e. the only explanation I can have is having a corps in the indian lands -> some kind of political aid to the general there...

At least the redeployment "use" should be payed

Well I prefer this could be somewhat solved in future patches... !!! seems as a mini-Bug at least to me.

Until now... i ve always done it in 2 redeployment turns... but next game I´ll do in a single trip!

[GrudgeBringer]

OK, thats the first I have heard of it and I can buy the telegram notion (within Limits).

My question is this:

Say I want to move Corps Commander Thomas Jackson out of the AotP and 'assign' him to A.S.Johnson in the Army of Tennesee.

What is it exactly that I do, and does the WHOLE Corps go or just the leader (Jackson)?

I see where the button is but it is confusing listening to all the different approches to it.

Could someone give me the short version please?

Since it is the concensus that it is ok to use I will give it a try...However, Even if I DID get a telegram as a CC I would still have to get my affairs together and TRAVEL (by RR or whatever) to the new command.

I agree that he should STILL be a CC but to get there the next turn?

Like I said I can see both ways so I need to know how to do this also (for pbem games if for no other reason)

Thanks

[Rafiki]

IMHO, if a corps commander ventures outside the command range of his army commander, he should loose all benefits of being a corps commander, i.e. ratings bonuses/maluses and CP non-halving, though still retaining corps status.

[Jabberwock]

IMHO, if a corps commander ventures outside the command range of his army commander, he should loose all benefits of being a corps commander, i.e. ratings bonuses/maluses and CP non-halving, though still retaining corps status.

First I have heard of it, too. I think Rafiki has the solution, esp. if by all benefits he means to include 'marching to the sound'. Maybe it should be an optional rule. At least for the vanilla version, where command radii are fairly large.

[Coregonas]

Well... Perhaps reducing all the Corps-stats to "no bonus at all when out of command" will solve in theory the problem, but...

I believe in the ACW lots of "mini-armies" who were in fact "AACW-corps", out of command "range" arised (mainly in the beggining of the war, or in far theaters?)

Should these not have at least some of the bonuses???

The reason I ve used lots of teleports is: I ve found when playing against an human-non suicide-USA player my (big enough) CSA army is really-really short of Corps commanders to avoid being totally outmaneouvered, as it is hard to get promoted if no big defending battles are really made.

So I ve been forced to use the teleport way to solve every critical situation as it arises.

My "bug" could be solved if the initial status of the leader could be saved, and after "undoing-teleport" going back to it... Easy to say! Hard to do?

[Le Ricain]

OK, thats the first I have heard of it and I can buy the telegram notion (within Limits).

My question is this:

Say I want to move Corps Commander Thomas Jackson out of the AotP and 'assign' him to A.S.Johnson in the Army of Tennesee.

What is it exactly that I do, and does the WHOLE Corps go or just the leader (Jackson)?

I see where the button is but it is confusing listening to all the different approches to it.

Could someone give me the short version please?

Since it is the concensus that it is ok to use I will give it a try...However, Even if I DID get a telegram as a CC I would still have to get my affairs together and TRAVEL (by RR or whatever) to the new command.

I agree that he should STILL be a CC but to get there the next turn?

Like I said I can see both ways so I need to know how to do this also (for pbem games if for no other reason)

Thanks

On the grey orders screen to the left of the lower unit screen, there are three tabs. Select the right-hand tab. At the bottom there is a button with a red arrow on a white background. Select your general and hit the teleport button. Drop your general (only generals and service units may be teleported) into a province that you control and he will be instantly placed there (albeit with reduced stats). If the target province contains an army general and the teleported general is at least a 2*, you can make him a corps commander. Unclick the teleport button and the general is teleported back to his original province, but retains his corps status.

[Jabberwock]

I was thinking about it from the Union side of things, where many *** are awful, and "no bonuses" might be better read as "no maluses".

I'm currently playing with the leader mod; having Lil' Mac or Halleck create an army, all the available ** form corps, and then the *** runs away to train troops in Boston or NYC. I suppose I could have just had him "beam-out" to get the same effect; and then use the beam-in/nope-changed-my-mind exploit whenever I needed new corps, just done in reverse.

My point is that either or both of the CP bonus and likelihood of 'marching to the sound' need to be tied to being in command range. If not eliminated, they could at least be reduced for being out of range. Reduction wouldn't totally mess up the decreased range mods.

[Jabberwock]

and does the WHOLE Corps go or just the leader (Jackson)?

apy: This reminds me:

Stanton managed the rail movement of almost 20,000 men (Hooker's & Slocum's corps / 4 divisions) from the AotP to the vicinity of Chattanooga in just over 5 days after the Chickamauga defeat. It was an extraordinary feat in an extraordinary situation, but it was possible.

Shouldn't we have a button for that? <just kidding>

[soloswolf]

There could be some sort of option where you pay to commandeer a large portion of rail services. It could cost some money (of course) but also give a slight NM hit for causing trouble for the high-powered rr companies.

Now, it should be said that there aren't too many times where I find that I need that much extra rail movement and just happen to have piles of money sitting around... Just thinking out loud.

[Jabberwock]

Really, I was kidding. We could maybe add something like that to a 'nice to have' list for sometime in 2009 or 2010. The game is fine without it, and it would definitely mess with Athena.

[soloswolf]

I can't speak to Athena's reaction, but I am with you on it being quite unnecessary.

[Pocus]

The fix I'm considering is to not allow a corps commander to redeploy. Well you could, but it will lose his Corps attachment. Same thing when you abort the redeploy, so to prevent the exploit here too.

[soloswolf]

I would propose that you also eliminate the ability to form a division after you re-deploy.

[Jabberwock]

The fix I'm considering is to not allow a corps commander to redeploy. Well you could, but it will lose his Corps attachment. Same thing when you abort the redeploy, so to prevent the exploit here too.

That would cure everything but the reverse exploit (zapping a poor army commander in/out).

[Pocus]

The choices are:
a) do nothing
b) remove corps status if out of range
c) give a penalty if out of range

(b) and (c) can perhaps only affect a human player, Athena don't use purposely cheap tricks anyway

[lodilefty]

The choices are:
a) do nothing
b) remove corps status if out of range
c) give a penalty if out of range

(b) and (c) can perhaps only affect a human player, Athena don't use purposely cheap tricks anyway

c) feels best to me. A corps shouldn't lose integrity just because the Corps or Army HQ is forced to retreat out of range.....

Maybe a new parameter 'max range for Corps integrity" separate from range for command bonus?

[Jabberwock]

c sounds best. A balanced solution.
Something like:

No stat bonuses or maluses
Reduced marching percentages

Not sure what my opinion is on the CPs ... whether to reduce or eliminate ...

[soloswolf]

I think the cp's have to do with corps level staffers functioning properly, which should be able to happen without direction from the Army CO and his staff.

But, maybe only give them 1.5x co if they are out of command range?

[Coregonas]

I agree with c) option.

Dont know exactly what maluses should be, but perhaps a -1 strategy rating could do the job.

A corps out of range will have still some helpful bonuses (the same as now?... i.e. x2 CP, march to the sound & no +/- Off Deff) but the corps could be less operative with that -1.

[Rafiki]

To avoid gamey tactics, I say let a corps outside the army's command range lose all benefits, be it ratings modifiers and CP-advantage.

As justification, one can say that being outside the army's reach means that the corps will have to handle all matters relating to personnel (including wounded, organization, bringing up reserves and getting them into place, etc) and materials (supplies, bringing forward new weapons, organizing repairs, etc), putting and extra strain on the corps' ability to take care of a large number of units.

[Coregonas]

Well in case ALL bonuses were eliminated... as Rafiki said....

Some fun could be lost.... And lots of rare problems sure will arise.

For example... Moving the ANV-HQ to (Winchester VA) from the Richmond Area with a 4 STR leader (Beauregard) will leave a reserve corps in Richmond halved in CPs + other maluses!

Oh dear -35% only for waiting well fed in a 8 trench in the capitol. leure:



trying to add my best ideas to solve this BUG.

Perhaps adding a VERY strong STRATEGY MALUSES could add a lot.

For instance -2 or -3 STR maluses!

Even Stonewall will end as a 2-4-4 boring leader! Able to move a medium sized troop in the defensive but unuseful in the attack.

[Brausepaul]

The choices are:
a) do nothing
b) remove corps status if out of range
c) give a penalty if out of range

(b) and (c) can perhaps only affect a human player, Athena don't use purposely cheap tricks anyway

So the AI won't be affected? I guess it's too time consuming to teach it this new trick?