Civil War III - To be or not to be?

[Blood and Thunder Brigade]

@AACW3Plz has done a nice new mod here. Check it out!

viewtopic.php?f=340&t=54084

[Blood and Thunder Brigade]

How's everyone doing out there? Still kickin'?

[clandini5]

Perhaps more in line with still twitching, but still here.

[Blood and Thunder Brigade]

Perhaps more in line with still twitching, but still here.

Twitching counts, mate. Only just perhaps, but it still counts

[Blood and Thunder Brigade]

Has anyone seen that Matrix Games' "Strategic Command: American Civil War" is in the making, and if so what are your thoughts?

[Stratman]

Has anyone seen that Matrix Games' "Strategic Command: American Civil War" is in the making, and if so what are your thoughts?

This is a real-time strategy and а real-time battles at the tactical level as well. Both of these factors are unacceptable to me.
EDIT oops, I got confused with some other game.
This one is a hex-based TBS.
Sorry about that.

[Blood and Thunder Brigade]

Has anyone seen that Matrix Games' "Strategic Command: American Civil War" is in the making, and if so what are your thoughts?

This is a real-time strategy and а real-time battles at the tactical level as well. Both of these factors are unacceptable to me.
EDIT oops, I got confused with some other game.
This one is a hex-based TBS.
Sorry about that.

Do you think it'll match up?

[Stratman]

Do you think it'll match up?

In a nutshell - it`s not for me.
OK, I like this huge map, I hope that diplomacy, production, research mechanics will be working well.
However, the battle mechanics are very simple for me. Also it disappoints that there is no possibility of stacking or the combining of similar unit types. And how I really love these features in old AGEod games under Athena engine!

However for players who focus on American Civil War this game may be interesting (IMO)

[Blood and Thunder Brigade]

Do you think it'll match up?

In a nutshell - it`s not for me.
OK, I like this huge map, I hope that diplomacy, production, research mechanics will be working well.
However, the battle mechanics are very simple for me. Also it disappoints that there is no possibility of stacking or the combining of similar unit types. And how I really love these features in old AGEod games under Athena engine!

However for players who focus on American Civil War this game may be interesting (IMO)

Ageod set the bar pretty high as far I'm concerned. I still get immense enjoyment out of CWII, which is, what, nearly 10 years old now? I earnestly believe that unless Ageod releases a 3rd version, which sadly appears very unlikely, then all we'll see are pale imitations.

[Stratman]

Ageod set the bar pretty high as far I'm concerned. I still get immense enjoyment out of CWII, which is, what, nearly 10 years old now? I earnestly believe that unless Ageod releases a 3rd version, which sadly appears very unlikely, then all we'll see are pale imitations.

Absolutely agree.
CW2 was released at the end of 2013 . This is one of my favorite game either

[Pocus]

I'll probably play this new Strategic Command opus. Oh but make no mistake, I'll dearly regret there is no stacking, but as a beer and pretzel game on the ACW, I believe I'll enjoy my time with it! And the little sprites are cute

[Blood and Thunder Brigade]

I'll probably play this new Strategic Command opus. Oh but make no mistake, I'll dearly regret there is no stacking, but as a beer and pretzel game on the ACW, I believe I'll enjoy my time with it! And the little sprites are cute

I feel compelled to be brutally honest here and say that the game just doesn't look or sound appealing at all, and I'm not sure who it's really going to appeal to. I think the old guard players who've been thoroughly spoiled by the majestic work that is Ageod's Civil War II will avoid the Strategic Command game as they will inevitably make the comparison and dismiss it, and I don't see it drawing in new players because as I said it just doesn't look very appealing. I think that such a failure will be disastrous for the future of games centred around the American Civil War as other companies may very well decide it just isn't worth the risk.

[Blood and Thunder Brigade]

Having said all that I do hope the game is a success as it might just make other gaming companies sit up and take notice

[Pocus]

You have to take it as it is. This is not the Civil War game that will end up all Civil War games, but if you want a high-level, relatively quickly played game ... Not everyone can invest 200 hours in a game. I see it as a nice recreation during vacation for example, while being away from home.
I understand it is not what a grognard would need.
It's not all done for CW3, actually, I don't know what will be the game after Kingdoms. Who knows...

[Blood and Thunder Brigade]

It's not all done for CW3, actually, I don't know what will be the game after Kingdoms. Who knows...

Are you giving us hope here?

[Pocus]

Sorry, it is better I don't, probably!

But you can watch this loooong video from XTRG, a new campaign of CW2 unfolding before your eyes
https://youtu.be/1XU6-8i7reE

[Blood and Thunder Brigade]

Sorry, it is better I don't, probably!

But you can watch this loooong video from XTRG, a new campaign of CW2 unfolding before your eyes
https://youtu.be/1XU6-8i7reE

Even just a little hope is better than none at all

[Johnny Slick]

Just wanted to put my two cents in for ideas around the game, specifically the turn length. I've got to be honest, I like the 15 day length for this. It puts into mind the notion that you're sending army orders and don't always get a really great chance to amend them on the fly during this time period. Perhaps the AI in the new version might adjust your orders itself - in fact, that's probably the #1 thing I'd love to see - but yeah, the scope feels about right to me.

Expanding on the above, wouldn't it be awesome, if maddening, to have generals behave a bit more like they did in real life? You do get the "activation chance" if you play with that on (I do but don't know how many others do) which does bring to mind slowpokes, but there too I'd prefer it if you were able to issue an order to a General Rosecrans and then have him tell you that a Confederate army emerged from the fog of war and caused them to retreat back to the nearest city (or maybe you tell a General Hood to stick to the defense around Nashville but instead he slams into the Union army and destroys himself, heh). Perhaps you can have various prods and levers you can use to induce generals into following your orders (think of all the things Lincoln tried to get McClellan to "activate"), which may have negative effects on their personal morale (new rating!) or what have you. I think that would really cement the feeling of being a commander in chief, issuing directives from a central point and seeing them get carried out or not carried out as the case may be.

Otherwise, I enjoy the current brigade level system and would prefer not to micro regiments. You could always make it an option, I guess - my main game nowadays is Out of the Park Baseball, which is kind of like AGEOD Civil War II for the national pastime in terms of complexity and it does the "overwhelm you with options" thing, for better or for worse. Divisions and Corps and all that take a while to "get" as well - hate to say it but that might be a place where things could be simplified in the future (although once everything is in place, I think it does make sense; it's just, the learning curve is very high).

I also really like the fact that this game and the other games in the AGEOD lineup are *not* hex-based. I realize that hex-based is waaay easier to code, both in terms of just plain mapping and in terms of the AI negotiating it, but real life doesn't necessarily conform to hexes, especially not at the strategic level the game plays out at. It's definitely a feature, not a bug, to, for example, figure out your way through West Virginia at the beginning of the war, or to get down the Mississippi in a historically plausible way. I guess if the game added a tactical component (beyond the single-player stuff that admittedly I've never used), a randomly generated battle map might work, but meh, that's not really what AGEOD CW2 is about.

[Blood and Thunder Brigade]

@Johnny Slick

For me the biggest issue with 15 day turns is that once a course is decided upon it is irrevocable and potentially disastrous unless a player wants to sit there fiddling with the replay turn option. Given the usually ridiculous amount of time it takes for a force to reach a destination to attack an enemy it's completely unrealistic to say 'well there is Hooker and I'm going to attack him as it appears to be to my advantage to do so' and then 3 or 6 or 9 days later, while still on the march to meet your enemy you discover that said force is actually there in far greater number and/or position and to continue on your way would be first-rate recklessness then why not just stop any planned attack while you still can? With 15 day turns that becomes an unrealistic impossibility.
In my humble opinion, this is why 3 or 5 day turns, coupled with far more realistic marching times between regions, is a far better option. It would add a tremendous sense of fluidity and fluctuation and excitement and emulate to a reasonable degree the frequency which orders were changed out of necessity.

[Artemis]

Do you think it'll match up?

In a nutshell - it`s not for me.
OK, I like this huge map, I hope that diplomacy, production, research mechanics will be working well.
However, the battle mechanics are very simple for me. Also it disappoints that there is no possibility of stacking or the combining of similar unit types. And how I really love these features in old AGEod games under Athena engine!

However for players who focus on American Civil War this game may be interesting (IMO)

Ageod set the bar pretty high as far I'm concerned. I still get immense enjoyment out of CWII, which is, what, nearly 10 years old now? I earnestly believe that unless Ageod releases a 3rd version, which sadly appears very unlikely, then all we'll see are pale imitations.

Agreed.

Civil War II is the best out there. And I've played about every Civil War game made.

[Pocus]

You know guys, if you were to start a total overhaul of Empires into the ACW, I would gladly lend a hand in terms of technical expertise. I believe Empires has reached enough maturity and depth of detail to tackle the ACW properly. It's a regions-based WEGO of up to 16 players and many aspects are drawn from what I did at AGEOD. The AI is much faster and is probably better and the whole engine super-stable.

[Blood and Thunder Brigade]

You know guys, if you were to start a total overhaul of Empires into the ACW, I would gladly lend a hand in terms of technical expertise. I believe Empires has reached enough maturity and depth of detail to tackle the ACW properly. It's a regions-based WEGO of up to 16 players and many aspects are drawn from what I did at AGEOD. The AI is much faster and is probably better and the whole engine super-stable.

Sounds awesome, but where and how to start is the question

[Pocus]

You probably need to be 2 at least. Both should be motivated to go through probably a few hundred hours of modding/complete conversion, over 2-3 years? One of the guys on the team will need to do some code, but I don't feel it's rocket science by far. Anyone with some engineering background can do that.

It mostly boils down, anyway, to be motivated and not just have a passing interest.

[Blood and Thunder Brigade]

You probably need to be 2 at least. Both should be motivated to go through probably a few hundred hours of modding/complete conversion, over 2-3 years? One of the guys on the team will need to do some code, but I don't feel it's rocket science by far. Anyone with some engineering background can do that.

It mostly boils down, anyway, to be motivated and not just have a passing interest.

Guys like that wouldn't come cheap, right? Where to secure a budget for such a project?

[Pocus]

Oh, you should not try to hire someone. Only guys with the motivation to do a good game on the ACW should be part of the team. If you start to hire 'professionals', then they won't do a good enough job with enough attention to detail and minutiae.

[pgr]

Interesting prospect...

[Blood and Thunder Brigade]

Oh, you should not try to hire someone. Only guys with the motivation to do a good game on the ACW should be part of the team. If you start to hire 'professionals', then they won't do a good enough job with enough attention to detail and minutiae.

Oh no, I didn't mean hiring any ol' son of a gun as I think that could be a recipe for disaster. While I'm sure that hiring "professionals", as you put it, might work out just fine, I feel that if they've no connection or passion or both for existing Ageod ACW games then the chances of them producing something amazing would be quite low in my opinion. If any hiring is to be done then it should be (hopefully) from within the community, as the best results would surely come from there.

[Blood and Thunder Brigade]

Out of interest, does anyone happen to know the sales or projected sales of Strategic Command: American Civil War?

[Pocus]

This is not disclosed by Slitherine. What I know is that it seems to have been a much bigger success than expected. My personal analysis is that it's a combination of a large interest in the ACW subject (mostly from Americans but not only?) and a good game engine. It has its flaws (no stacking) but still, it's a good one...

[Blood and Thunder Brigade]

This is not disclosed by Slitherine. What I know is that it seems to have been a much bigger success than expected. My personal analysis is that it's a combination of a large interest in the ACW subject (mostly from Americans but not only?) and a good game engine. It has its flaws (no stacking) but still, it's a good one...

"a much bigger success than expected" is pretty encouraging news! I was concerned that poor sales combined with a mediocre game (not that I'm saying it is) might have been the death knell for games based upon the American Civil War. As it is this keeps the door wide open for other things if you catch my drift