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James D Burns
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Location: Salida, CA

Lopsided battle losses

Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:08 pm

In my most recent session of play, I had two lopsided battles that occurred that totally wiped out the small attacking forces.

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In both battles my forces were set to defend and were behind trenches just sitting in an area defending. The small forces that entered the areas where my forces were, were probably just moving through, but both attacked and were wiped out to a man in just 1 round of combat.

There needs to be a self preservation routine in the battle engine that will allow individual elements to route long before something like this can occur.

I also think elements are being exposed to too much fire. In most historical battles a regiment might fight one or two different regiments in a day and that was about it. But it appears the battle routines allow single elements to be attacked by 5, 10, 20 or more opposing elements, otherwise I doubt casualties would be getting so high in just a single round.

I see no problem with elements getting attacked by more than one or two elements after many rounds of fighting have already occurred (the battle has been unfolding for a while and tactical maneuvers have had time to evolve/develop), but currently I think far too many elements are allowed to shoot at a single target too early in the battle routines.

I think a fair max would be no more than 2 line elements and 1 artillery can fire at a single element on the first round. Then you could add 1 additional line element for each round thereafter and an additional artillery every second round thereafter.

In both cases I doubt the small forces would have even attempted to engage in real life, so I also think the retreat option in the face of overwhelming odds needs to occur before any fighting, unless the larger force is in attack posture and not behind any kind of entrenchments.

Jim

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Franciscus
Posts: 4571
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: Portugal

Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:39 pm

Hello again.
This problem of sometimes "strange" :siffle: results of the battles has been mentioned a lot in these forums. There are some perfectly reasonably explanations for the way that the game engine makes these calculations.
Notwhitstanding, I find that I can achieve more reasonable battles by changing some lines of the combats file in the settings folder of your ACW directory.
Namely:
cbtHitCoef = 150 - I change it to 125 // is the % chance, in 1/100 (meaning 1.5% here) to hit the enemy, for each final firepower point.
cbtAsltCoef = 50 - I change it to 40 // same, but for assault
cbtNbRoundsPerDay = 6 - change it to 4 or 5 // Number of rounds per day

You could try.

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Hobbes
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Location: UK

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:20 pm

N/a

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Jacek
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Location: Poznań, Poland

Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:18 am

Well, if the enemy was just moving through the regions, then it seems you had >95% military control of the region and those passing forces were automatically set to Offensive posture. Too little reconaissanace and they bumped into your big army. Plus lots of artillery on your side.

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Gray_Lensman
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Location: Who is John Galt?

Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:24 am

deleted

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Gabriel
Conscript
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Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:09 pm
Location: New England

Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:11 pm

If I read the boxes correctly - your units were not killed to a man, they were taken prisoner (I assume the 'casualty' report includes prisoners taken?). The first battle shows eight companies surrendering, the second shows eleven surrendering.

Both battles show a very considerable superiority for the Union in both cavalry and artillery specifically, as well as men overall, this to me is a situation where having the entire force defeated in detail and being forced to surrender seems reasonable.

If it happens often in all sorts of scenarios though maybe there is something to that aspect.

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Gabriel
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Location: New England

Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:17 pm

*double post*

Sheytan
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Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:17 am

here is one result I see alot of. A enemy force advances into a county im in, my folks are set to defend under this scenario, the enemy is apparently trying to traverse this county...the results are very typically in favor of this enemy force by a ratio of 3-4 to 1. this really is rather funny, and I simply muse to myself that those sneaky confeds just managed to overrun some isolated camp or garrison but in the larger scheme of things comon :} in defending, im positional, im waiting for the bad guys and a inferior force inflicts more casualties? No, im not unsupplied, no im not out of ammo, no im not reduced in cohesion so badly my units dont display a strength value ;} nope.

(typically in this scenario its a enemy cavalry force that is trying to move into or thru the area that causes this result for the sake of clarity)

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McNaughton
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Location: Toronto, Canada

Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:20 pm

As has been said, the reason you had such casualties is because your enemy had artillery (lots of it), you had none. The Artillery casued significant ranged damage and cohesion loss to your forces, you had NO reply to that ranged damage.

Their cavalry, which has high movement and initiative had no enemy cavalry to battle, thereby, could easily pick off and capture your completely demoralized troops. Your force did route, but, without cavalry to screen, were easily completely captured by the Confederate cavalry, thereby destroyed to the last man.

So, the reason for the lopsided battles is you put all infantry forces up against an enemy with superior numbers, and who was adequately equipped with cavalry and artllery. Frankly, I would be disappointed if you didn't come off worse in these battles!

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jimkehn
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Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:00 pm

Actually, I think James Burns was the North. He said he was dug in and defending. The north was the side dug in and defending. I interpreted his complaint that the AI moved into that situation and didn't withdraw soon enough. However, being out numbered to that degree, I am not surprised that they were completely wiped out, either...well...captured. With the Cav superiority Jim had over the south, it's no wonder they couldn't withdraw. They just put their hands in the air.

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McNaughton
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Location: Toronto, Canada

Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:35 pm

jimkehn wrote:Actually, I think James Burns was the North. He said he was dug in and defending. The north was the side dug in and defending. I interpreted his complaint that the AI moved into that situation and didn't withdraw soon enough. However, being out numbered to that degree, I am not surprised that they were completely wiped out, either...well...captured. With the Cav superiority Jim had over the south, it's no wonder they couldn't withdraw. They just put their hands in the air.


Still, same situation. A force of infantry incorrectly stumbled upon a larger force that was better organized. I really don't know how the AI could have extracted itself, given the lack of counter-battery artillery, or cavalry to screen the retreat from enemy cavalry.

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jimkehn
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Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:11 pm

agreed

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