Agressive UI not that agressive

[lightbrave]

It took a whole year for the Union army in Alexandria to move out of that region and attack. Same with the armies near Kentucky. The only place the Union is aggressive is in Texas and Missouri.
Im still trying to master the game on easy level. I still undo turns now and then but im getting a little better at the game. Anybody know why the Union wont move? By the way, the forces in Jefferson City seem to be sorry fighters, iv never been able to hold that city even if I have superior numbers. I hear some confederate players here say that you need to take the initiative. How do you move into a territory occupied by the enemy (for example Alexandria) and not attack? How do I just move in the same area without engaging the enemy? Thanks guys

[Captain_Orso]

It took a whole year for the Union army in Alexandria to move out of that region and attack. Same with the armies near Kentucky. The only place the Union is aggressive is in Texas and Missouri.

I think your talking about AI (Artificial Intelligence) loving like named Athena around here. UI is User Interface.

Im still trying to master the game on easy level.

It's always good, learn the mechanics of a game before getting too deep into difficult strategies.

I still undo turns now and then but im getting a little better at the game.

Been there, done that, albeit long ago . At some point I found that redoing a turn took so long, just to change that one move, that I'd started to just live with the bad move, and learn from that

Anybody know why the Union wont move?

Check the AI Aggressiveness and AI Detection bonus in Options. With a Detection bonus, Athena will see further behind the front lines and be able to look for targets back there to attack. Aggressiveness is just that.

The consensus says, to get Athena to act as close to how a human player might play, set AI Rank to Lieutenant, Aggressiveness to Normal, Detection Bonus to Low. You may happy with other settings.

By the way, the forces in Jefferson City seem to be sorry fighters, iv never been able to hold that city even if I have superior numbers.

Leadership, not numbers, win battles, plus the fact that CS troop quality is a bit better, in general at the start. Be sure that your stacks have at least enough leadership to not have penalties, or as close as possible. If you're trying to hold Jefferson with just a stack of militia against Lyon with a force of mostly regulars, you will lose every time.

I hear some confederate players here say that you need to take the initiative.

I don't often play the CS, but when I have, I've always played aggressively. I don't enjoy defensive play that much. There are a few CS players here who could say more on the subject than I.

How do you move into a territory occupied by the enemy (for example Alexandria) and not attack? How do I just move in the same area without engaging the enemy?

You don't! and that's they way it should be. Armies don't crowd each other out of an area, they have to fight there way in.

Thanks guys

My pleasure

[lightbrave]

Thanks for the feedback Orso, I appreciate the response. I must respectfully disagree with your comment about how an army should have to attack if they move into an occupied region. If you move an army into a region that is already occupied and the army is (dug in) most likely, then the defender will always win (or so iv seen every time) if the forces are near equal. Using the Alexandria situation, if I move my army into Alexandria, I should be able to not engage and start digging in. If they want to attack immediately and come out of their entrenchments and attack thats fine. Me being there would be a (check) on them moving out of the region because if they leave their entrenchments to maneuver around me I should be able to attack them without them having and entrenchment bonus. I hope this makes a little bit of sense and don't misunderstand, im not attacking you, im just trying to make the game a little more realistic. Mabye it would be too much trouble of a mechanic to put into the game. What do you think?

[DrPostman]

The problem is that if you don't have military control of a region when you move
into it you automatically go into offensive posture.

[Captain_Orso]

Hey Doc P.,

Lightbrave is not arguing the rules, he's arguing history, because the game does not work like he wishes.

--

Lightbrave,

no, two opposing forces do not approach each other--regardless of whether one or both are actually moving--without intending on doing combat.

As soon as they are in close proximity of each other, they are both in danger of either making a mistake or failing to recognize a danger, and having that danger or mistake exploited. For as long as they are in close proximity to each other, this danger is present.

The commanders of these two forces are not sitting over a computer game, looking at 100% accurate force depictions, they are lucky if they have a good map, at all, and a fair estimation of where which divisions were yesterday, including their own, and they can hope none of the divisions have moved since yesterday, also including there own. But that inevitably will at some time not be the case. Then you have something like a hammer out there out of sight, and you might not even know it, waiting to come down on some soft are weak point, and you have no idea when nor where.

Logistics also become exceedingly difficult because your regiments are camped on locations dictated by military tactics and not logistical ease. Remember, more men died during the war from disease and sickness than through battle. Most of this was caused by poor living conditions, and having to camp in poor locations, where your men are wet and cold for days and weeks, without a chance to get warm and dry, or even sleep in a tent, because they're stuck in the trenches, knee deep in cold, fitly, mud that they spit, puke, piss and sh*t in, because it's too dangerous to get out of the trench and go look for a place behind some trees, they have no opportunity to wash, nor even know why they ought to.

And exactly why are you doing this? what is your goal? what advantage do you expect to gain from this?

[lightbrave]

All I was expecting to do was to move into the Washington DC area and hold in check their forces there. Then I can take a smaller force through harpers ferry and drive towards Baltimore. After some thought, I realize that me going across the river "should" bring them out of some of their defensive works, to harass me crossing the river, that is unless they have defensive positions right at the river. I know there wouldn't be much gain for me for what im suggesting. But if there was a mechanic, that my forces would be set to attack, if the enemy move a significant amount of forces out of the region. Then I would be able to attack a smaller force. Im just having trouble right now in a game im playing. I have taken Alexandria and the Union has about 100,000 men in Washington DC. I have about 65,000 in Alexandria. They wont attack so I sent about 15,000 men to go through harpers ferry and headed east and took Baltimore. Now this seems useless to me because as the war goes on the Union gets more and more troops and I feel like im going to have to abandon Baltimore. So basically, Athena, seems to be waiting it out till they have such a vast force that I wont be able to stop them. How do I maintain raising morale without losing it because there is no more I can do in the eastern theatre.

[Wraith]

If Athena is turtling in DC, and you've taken Baltimore, I would say that you need to add another division and drive on all of those big cities. If I had 20k men in my opponent's backfield and no indications that he's about to bring more forces to the fight, I would punish him and take any city that has a factory icon.

[ArmChairGeneral]

lightbrave,

The designers made a conscious decision about the mechanic you are talking about, and chose to make it the way it is rather than the way you are talking about (being able to move into an enemy controlled region without initiating combat). There are even settings built into the engine that would allow them to implement the game in the way you describe without a lot of extra coding, but they chose not to as a design decision.

As to your analysis of the tactical positioning and the challenge for the CSA of taking DC, I would respond: yes, yes, and yes. You have correctly identified the essential problem for the CSA: Baltimore and even Pennsylvania gain you nothing, DC is the only objective that can win the war for you, and it is strongly defended. If you cannot take it relatively quickly (1863 at the latest) then the Union will eventually be able to overwhelm you since you cannot permanently deny them enough infrastructure to make a difference.

If you hold the Potomac Line (Alexandria and Harper's Ferry) you are in a strong position. Commit all you builds to the Eastern Theater; max out Lee's stack and at least two other Corps (typically Jackson and Longstreet) possibly with a third smaller corps to hold Alexandria, and don't neglect to give each of them a dedicated artillery division with as many rifled or heavy artillery as you can. Take either the region directly west of DC or the one S/SE of DC (both of which can draw supplies from the depot in Alexandria) to act as the staging ground for your assault (if the Union is not counter attacking in Baltimore, they will not counterattack against those position either) and attack DC from there rather than Alexandria to avoid river crossing penalties. Leave only a covering force in Alexandria for your initial attack into DC since you cannot reliably MTSG to DC from Alexandria unless you have 10% MC in DC and can use the bridge. You will take many casualties on the initial battle, but if you bring a large enough force you can at least stalemate them and hold your position in DC. If you win the initial battle they may all retreat into the city which is the best possible scenario. (If the Union has a fleet in the river crossing you need to put a bunch of artillery in the Alexandria redoubt beforehand and bombard until the fleet is forced to withdraw. If the redoubt was destroyed already, you need to rebuild it so you can control the river.)

Bear in mind that the PWR and troop numbers in DC are inflated when planning your initial attack into the region. The Union has over a division's worth of locked volunteer brigades that cannot be formed into a division until they are attacked, and Athena does not always use her Training Officers to make them into regulars like a human player would. Further, Fort guns are over-represented in the PWR ratings, and only come into play if you actually assault, which you will not be doing in the initial attack. For that matter, if you are playing the AI, she will have a significant portion of her defenders actually inside the city that will also not participate in the initial fight.

Once you establish yourself in the region around DC, wait for a turn or two to draw replacements and assault the city using R/O or R/B orders (not R/R). You probably won't win this one, but just wait another turn or two to recover and do it again and again until you wear them down and take the city. Expect to lose a lot of men and NM in these battles so have a buffer built up ahead of time. You recover men twice as fast as the Union, so don't let up, keep grinding them and you will eventually be able to overcome them. If you can get 25% MC you can then use the rail bridge to rotate troops to the depot in Alexandria to recover on subsequent turns, but even with 10% MC Alexandria can use the bridge as a road, increasing its chance to MTSG and eliminating river crossing maluses. If you can blockade DC, which you can do from the Alexandria redoubt, forces in the city will not be able to draw replacements (although you will never starve them out). During this grind the Union AI will probably try to suicide whatever it has nearby to try to break the siege, but this will most likely just result in gifting you NM; human players will most likely have a more effective response.

Taking DC usually results in an automatic Major Victory unless their NM is above 80 (which it probably isn't if you are doing so well as to be attacking the capital). The AI becomes aimless and almost seems to give up once you take their capital, so even if you don't win instantly you should be able to roll them up quickly.

Do not attack DC until you are ready to make the decisive push, or you will unlock their defensive units and allow them to organize much more effectively on subsequent attacks.