Fantasy figures for the British

[RebelYell]

One solution is giving the out of state penalty for the British Fencible Regiments.

[Offworlder]

Or actually making Fencible, Yeomanry and Militia regiments much smaller than they are in game as to made useless in open combat (and as they were in reality - few had more than a few hundred men in real life).

Another way to tackle it would be to give Fencible regiments slower mobility, akin to the mobile militia units on the continent (around 75 or so). Would you bring them with you to the continent if they slowed your army overall? Also make Fencibles unable to upgrade to regulars, like militia. As far as I know, only one Fencible regiment actually volunteered for frontline service and the rest were kept as a sort of mobile militia.

[RebelYell]

Or actually making Fencible, Yeomanry and Militia regiments much smaller than they are in game as to made useless in open combat (and as they were in reality - few had more than a few hundred men in real life).

Another way to tackle it would be to give Fencible regiments slower mobility, akin to the mobile militia units on the continent (around 75 or so). Would you bring them with you to the continent if they slowed your army overall? Also make Fencibles unable to upgrade to regulars, like militia. As far as I know, only one Fencible regiment actually volunteered for frontline service and the rest were kept as a sort of mobile militia.

The cohesion drop from out of state penalty would make them useless.
You could also give an decree or reform ( with an EP cost) that turns some in to regulars from time to time, historically some did?

[Offworlder]

The cohesion drop from out of state penalty would make them useless.
You could also give an decree or reform ( with an EP cost) that turns some in to regulars from time to time, historically some did?

I stand to be corrected, but very few were converted to regulars (only one comes to mind). However, a few went on garrison duty to the safer spots like Gibraltar, with the bulk being concentrated in Scotland and Ireland.

[RebelYell]

I stand to be corrected, but very few were converted to regulars (only one comes to mind). However, a few went on garrison duty to the safer spots like Gibraltar, with the bulk being concentrated in Scotland and Ireland.

All the better for France.

[vicberg]

Or actually making Fencible, Yeomanry and Militia regiments much smaller than they are in game as to made useless in open combat (and as they were in reality - few had more than a few hundred men in real life).

Another way to tackle it would be to give Fencible regiments slower mobility, akin to the mobile militia units on the continent (around 75 or so). Would you bring them with you to the continent if they slowed your army overall? Also make Fencibles unable to upgrade to regulars, like militia. As far as I know, only one Fencible regiment actually volunteered for frontline service and the rest were kept as a sort of mobile militia.

Militia are useless in this game. For the "size", the number of men is a generic value. The Militia combat ability is almost nil

[Offworlder]

Indeed. My only real experience with militias are those of France and unless 2 brigades are led by a general with the militiaman ability and backed by some artillery, they are truly useless. On one occasion in a recent game, I tried to counter a Prussian cavalry brigade led by Gneisenau with all five Garde brigades under second rate generals but led overall by Brune (ok no genius but you know...), and they still got their posteriors handed to them. It was quite amazing actually. I actually prefer the trained up garrisons found in Spain to these guys who would barely hold their own behind fortifications it seems.

However, Fensible regiments were different because they were better equipped and led (usually by veterans of previous wars or local worthies with some military training). That being said, they were contracted to serve within the confines of the UK or its dependencies and only on rare occasions left their recruiting zones. So their status as volunteers in-game is ok (they were superior to homeguard militia but inferior to regulars), but they should not be upgradable...

[captain14]

Totally agree British deployed numbers are unhistorical. A 50 000 British force in France in 1805 makes a mockery of the game. As France I inflicted a 27 000 loss on the British early 1805 and a few months later they appear to have recovered with minimal inconvenience. Also fairly unbalancing for the game.
Played Empires in Arms, War in Peace and this issue never presented itself.

[Aurelin]

GB should not have the draft option. They didn't draft back then.

Wellington wished it was done, as he thought conscription brought in a superior type of soldier as they came from all levels.

[vicberg]

+1

I took them out for GBR in my mod

[bdtj1815]

I can only agree with this. I am presently involved in a 7 player pbem game, as Prussia, and it is June 1805 and the British have just invaded France with two 2,000 plus stacks. Having studied the Napoleonic Wars for years this is ridiculous!!

[RebelYell]

Nafziger collection data, not commenting on the replacement rate or units in game, just to add in the discussion.


Estimate of the British Army in the United Kingdom, Mediterranean & Carribean

January 1806-25 December 1806



lst Life Guard Regiment (4l6)
2nd Life Guard Regiment (4l5)
Royal Regiment of Horse Guards (654)
lst Dragoon Guard Regiment (l,082)
2nd Dragoon Guard Regiment (904)
3rd Dragoon Guard Regiment (904)
4th Dragoon Guard Regiment (904)
5th Dragoon Guard Regiment (904)
6th Dragoon Guard Regiment (904)
7th Dragoon Guard Regiment (904)
lst Dragoon Regiment (904)
2nd Dragoon Regiment (904)
3rd Dragoon Regiment (905)
4th Dragoon Regiment (904)
5th Dragoon Regiment (904)
6th Dragoon Regiment (904)
7th Light Dragoon Regiment (904)
8th Light Dragoon Regiment (720)
9th Light Dragoon Regiment (904)
l0th Light Dragoon Regiment (904)
llth Light Dragoon Regiment (904)
l2th Light Dragoon Regiment (904)
l3th Light Dragoon Regiment (904)
l4th Light Dragoon Regiment (904)
l5th Light Dragoon Regiment (904)
l6th Light Dragoon Regiment (904)
l7th Light Dragoon Regiment (904)
l8th Light Dragoon Regiment (904)
l9th Light Dragoon Regiment (720)
20th Light Dragoon Regiment (904)
2lst Light Dragoon Regiment (904)
22nd Light Dragoon Regiment (720)
23rd Light Dragoon Regiment (904)
24th Light Dragoon Regiment (720)
Royal Wagon Train (260)(from 24 May to 24 May)
Royal Staff Corps (463)
lst Guard Foot Regiment (4,6l9)
Coldstream Foot Guard Regiment (2,887)
3rd Guard Foot Regiment (2,887)
l/lst Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/,3/,4/lst Foot Regiment (l,872)
2nd Foot Regiment (907)
3rd Foot Regiment (2)(l,390)
4th Foot Regiment (2)(l,6l0)
5th Foot Regiment (2)(l,6l0)
l/6th Foot Regiment (907)
2/6th Foot Regiment (483)
l/7th Foot Regiment (907)
2/7th Foot Regiment (483)
8th Foot Regiment (2)(l,390)
9th Foot Regiment (2)(l,390)
l/l0th Foot Regiment (907)
2/l0th Foot Regiment (483)
llth Foot Regiment (9l7)
2/l3th Foot Regiment (907)
l4th Foot Regiment (2)(l,6l0)
l/l5th Foot Regiment (9l7)
2/l5th Foot Regiment (483)
l6th Foot Regiment (9l7)
l7th Foot Regiment (l,l5l)
l/l8th Foot Regiment (l,ll7)
2/l8th Foot Regiment (l,ll4)
l9th Foot Regiment (l,l27)
20th Foot Regiment (907)
22nd Foot Regiment (l,l5l)
23rd Foot Regiment (2)(l,6l0)
l/24th Foot Regiment (9l7)
2/24th Foot Regiment (483)
25th Foot Regiment (2)(l,390)26th Foot Regiment (2)(l,8l0)
l/27th Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/,3/27th Foot Regiment (2)(l,387)
28th Foot Regiment (2)(2,23l)
29th Foot Regiment (9l7)
l/30th Foot Regiment (l,36l)
2/30th Foot Regiment (693)
3lst Foot Regiment (2)(l,6l0)
32nd Foot Regiment (2)(l,390)
33rd Foot Regiment (l,l5l)
l/34th Foot Regiment (l,l5l)
2/34th Foot Regiment (693)
l/35th Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/35th Foot Regiment (693)
36th Foot Regiment (2)(l,6l0)
37th Foot Regiment (9l7)
l/38th Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/38th Foot Regiment (483)
l/39th Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/39th Foot Regiment (693)
40th Foot Regiment (2)(l,6l0)
4lst Foot Regiment (907)
l/42nd Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/42nd Foot Regiment (693)
43rd Foot Regiment (2)(l,6l0)
l/44th Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/44th Foot Regiment (904)
45th Foot Regiment (2)(l,390)
46th Foot Regiment (9l7)
l/47th Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/47th Foot Regiment (2)(483)
l/48th Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/48th Foot Regiment (693)
49th Foot Regiment (907)
50th Foot Regiment (2)(l,6l0)
5lst Foot Regiment (l,l5l)
52nd Foot Regiment (2)(l,820)
l/53rd Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/53rd Foot Regiment (904)
54th Foot Regiment (l,l27)
55th Foot Regiment (9l7)
l/56th Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/56th Foot Regiment (904)
l/57th Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/57th Foot Regiment (483)
l/58th Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/58th Foot Regiment (904)
l/59th Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/59th Foot Regiment (483)
60th Foot Regiment (6)(5,473)
l/6lst Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/6lst Foot Regiment (483)
62nd Foot Regiment (2)(l,390)
63rd Foot Regiment (2)(l,390)
64th Foot Regiment (9l7)
65th Foot Regiment (l,l5l)
l/66th Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/66th Foot Regiment (693)
l/67th Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/67th Foot Regiment (693)
68th Foot Regiment (9l7)
l/69th Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/69th Foot Regiment (693)
70th Foot Regiment (9l7)
l/7lst Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/7lst Foot Regiment (483)
72nd Foot Regiment (907)
73rd Foot Regiment (483)
74th Foot Regiment (907)
75th Foot Regiment (907)
76th Foot Regiment (907)
77th Foot Regiment (l,l5l)
l/78th Foot Regiment (l,l5l)
2/78th Foot Regiment (l,ll5)
79th Foot Regiment (2)(2,03l)
80th Foot Regiment (l,l5l)
l/8lst Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/8lst Foot Regiment (904)
l/82nd Foot Regiment (unknown)
2/82nd Foot Regiment (l,6l0)
l/83rd Foot Regiment (l,l27)
2/83rd Foot Regiment (483)
84th Foot Regiment (l,l5l)
85th Foot Regiment (9l7)
86th Foot Regiment (l,l5l)
87th Foot Regiment (2)(l,6l0)
88th Foot Regiment (2)(l,6l0)
89th Foot Regiment (2)(l,6l0)
l/90th Foot Regiment (9l7)
2/90th Foot Regiment (483)
9lst Foot Regiment (2)(l,390)
92nd Foot Regiment (2)(2,03l)
93rd Foot Regiment (907)
94th Foot Regiment (l,l5l)
95th Foot Regiment (2)(2,03l)
l/96th Foot Regiment (9l7)
2/96th Foot Regiment (483)
97th Foot Regiment (unknown)
98th Foot Regiment (907)
99th Foot Regiment (l,ll7)
l00th Foot Regiment (907)
New South Wales Corps (Grose's)(694)
Royal South African Corps (l,333)
lst West India Regiment (l,l24)
2nd West India Regiment (l,l24)
3rd West India Regiment (l,l24)
4th West India Regiment (l,l24)
5th West India Regiment (l,l24)
6th West India Regiment (l,l24)
7th West India Regiment (l,l24)
8th West India Regiment (9l3)
4 West India Garrison Companies (3ll)
Barrack Artificier Corps (l66)
lst Garrison Battalion (694)
2nd Garrison Battalion (594)
3rd Garrison Battalion (594)
lst Royal Veteran Batalion (743)
2nd Royal Veteran Battalion (743)
3rd Royal Veteran Battalion (743)
4th Royal Veteran Battalion (l,l23)
5th Royal Veteran Battalion (743)
6th Royal Veteran Battalion (743)
7th Royal Veteran Battalion (l,l23)
8th Royal Veteran Battalion (743)
9th Royal Veteran Battalion (743)
New Brunswick Fencibles (692)
Nova Scotia Fencibles (692)
Canadian Fencibles (692)
New Foundland Fencibles (692)

[RebelYell]

Totally agree British deployed numbers are unhistorical. A 50 000 British force in France in 1805 makes a mockery of the game. As France I inflicted a 27 000 loss on the British early 1805 and a few months later they appear to have recovered with minimal inconvenience. Also fairly unbalancing for the game.
Played Empires in Arms, War in Peace and this issue never presented itself.

The British did land 20-30.000 combined in Hannover and Italy in 1805, or does anyone have complete figures for those forces?

Part of it is that people take more risks in game than they would in reality.

[RebelYell]

Found something interesting, no idea how to get it in the game but maybe somebody has.

For most of the wars, British cavalry formed a lower proportion of armies in the field than most other European armies, mainly because it was more difficult to transport horses by ship than foot soldiers, and the horses usually required several weeks to recuperate on landing. British cavalry were also more useful within Britain and Ireland for patrolling the country as a deterrent to unrest. Some exceptions were Wellington's Vitoria campaign in 1813, when he required large numbers of cavalry to ensure a decisive result to the campaign, and the Waterloo campaign, where the cavalry needed to be transported only across the English Channel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Army_during_the_Napoleonic_Wars#Cavalry