Most curious

[Wheat]

My Confederate cavalry besieging Harodsburg KY is slowing dying from lack of supply. Odd since for the last two turns I have held the level 3 depot in adjacent Louisville. I thought you could draw supply from depots in adjacent regions. If so, why no supply to the cavalry? The supply trace shows green for the region too.

[GraniteStater]

I believe you need a Wagon for adjacent supplies.

[Wheat]

I believe you need a Wagon for adjacent supplies.

I don't think that is correct at all.

[GraniteStater]

You need to pull, or draw, Supplies. I wrote a short primer in the old AACW on the subject, because I couldn't figure things out. Then I slowly figured things out. That doesn't make me an expert, but I know a few tricks.

If things are still the same, to give an example, level 1 or 2 towns do not request Supplies. 3+ do. So do Depots and Forts. So do Wagons, on or adjacent to a Supply source (level 1 and 2 towns do produce a small amount; they don't ask for them, however).

Units, by themselves, do not request Supplies, IIRC. They will draw them from whatever is handy, in the same Region, if I have it right. The Supply network is like a pipeline and flows to Requestors, where they may, or may not, accrue. Wagons are portable Requestors, if you will.

I sincerely believe you need a Wagon if you want to stick around besieging folks. I could be mistaken, but believe my perceptions are essentially correct.

[ArmChairGeneral]

I thought you could fill packs from adjacent sources as long as they were within the notional wagon-travel-turn from the source. This is the "filling their packs" supply draw, not the accumulation of excess supply that the wagons enable. What is the weather? In many cases the weather and terrain prevents the supply from being able to get through by making the notional travel time too long.

That said, I try never to rely on drawing from the nearby source without a wagon, it doesn't always work (quite possibly because I am wrong about the rule and it actually never happens).

On a side note, what are your horsies doing in Harodsburg? Maintaining MC and/or entrenchments so Forrest(?) can retreat? They can't force a surrender or win an assault, so unless you have compelling MC considerations, there is no reason not to pull them back anyway.

[GraniteStater]

This is the "filling their packs" supply draw, not the accumulation of excess supply that the wagons enable.

The Region only, I believe.

From an old AACW thread, I just don't understand Supply (a few caveats here, but the essentials still hold, I think):

**********

First, read the Supply Primer so handily stickied.

Now, in a nutshell (I know the Union; the Southern mileage may vary):

Let's take a certain unit you get in southern PA in a 61 start. At first it is locked. It stays locked for about two turns. Then it unlocks. Then you click it to move it and discover that your brand new brave boys, rarin' to go, are starving to death. In Pennsylvania. In the summer.

This is because (a) no Wagon; (b) not next to, or on, a town or city, a Depot. The system knows the unit is there; the system wants to give them supplies, ammo, and so forth, but it can't, because of (a) and (b) just mentioned.

Depots, Forts, Towns of size 3+, Wagons and Transports request Supply. Towns of less than size 3 generate small amounts of Supply, but never request it. The system is a network of pipelines: NYC, Philly, Chicago, etc., generate huge amounts that are pushed along the system of RRs and Roads and Rivers not interdicted by Bad Guys (i. e., MC of 25% or more, not subject to enemy Forts blocking riverine traffic, etc.). The Supply goes to them who ask for it - them's that asks, git.

So you need to be adjacent to, or on, a source of supply, or something that requests supply. If that something is not a fixed Fort, Depot, or 3+ Town/City, it had better be a Wagon or a Transport, cuz otherwise, the waiter ain't takin' your order.

Also, it is important to keep RRs and Rivers up to 100%, Full Capacity, cuz Supply is pushed in three phases and only goes the last mile (like your cable connection at home) if the third and final phase is up to snuff. You can get by with Average, but some guys might not get that extra helping of beans at dinner, cuz the third phase never got to them that turn.

I finally drew the conclusion that if I want to go Reb hunting, I had better darn well make sure I took a Wagon with me. Fire up a 62 start as the USA and check out Burnside, sunning himself on the shore in SC. Go thru two Turns, maybe three. Then check out Burnside - he is about to go poof!, because you didn't build a Depot - Beaufort, SC, is not a 3+ Town, there is no Fort, no Depot. You can park Transports there, that do request Supply, but they will not do the trick, they're too small a capacity, it doesn't work, I know, believe me, I know. The solution to the 'overseas' Burnside problem is to build a Depot there with a Transport unit(s). Then everyone's much happier and has something to eat and something to shoot, cuz the system says, "Hey! I gotta keep that Depot in Supply!" The Shipping Box plays an essential role in this case, BTW.

It's a rough sketch and I'm sure Gray and others could iron out some details, but that's I how I think of it - seems to work.

Goin' huntin'? Take a Wagon. Goin' down Ole Man River to squash Vicksburg? Take Wagons and Transports. Goin' over the seas to land in Mobile and surprise Johnny Reb big time? Wagons and Transports.

Pushin' towards the interior from Nashville? Seize every town and Depot you see, secure your RRs, assert MC and keep the lines open, cuz you gotta keep your Wagons stocked.

Hope that helps. Have a good war and have a good breakfast.

[GraniteStater]

So, I might be correcting myself per Wheat's situation. It could be his Cav can get Supplies; they're just not enough of a draw. He did say Louisville is a Depot, right? Maybe the Cav isn't enough of a pull, or not enough of a stockpile at L-ville (bigger unit to feed right there). Need the mouseover.

[ArmChairGeneral]

Edit: cross posted

Yes, and in this case the cavalry are adjacent to a rather large depot. Unless they are only able to fill their packs from the region they are in, (and that is not my understanding of the rule but I could be wrong) I see no reason it isn't drawing enough to fill its packs from Louisville other than weather/terrain interfering or unless the stacks there are eating everything.

[GraniteStater]

How long has L-ville been held? Need a couple of Turns to top off, I would warrant. What's the RR status? Average? Below Average? The times I've played the CSA, I gave up on trying for Full+, and settled for Average.

[Cardinal Ape]

Units next to depots can receive supply without wagons present. I've used it many times. How it works it the presence of the enemy I do not know, but it seems to be your problem since the pic shows Louisville to be stocked.

[Captain_Orso]

I think CA is correct, with lots of MC your cav would probably be getting enough GS to live on. Check the MC you have in the Frankfort region. 25% will allow "supply" to pass through, but that doesn't mean unrestricted passage of supply.

I honestly have to say, this puzzle had me pondering, and I couldn't quite put my finger on why. Then I thought to myself, "what the heck are you doing man"? Drop one of Johnston's divisions on the town and crush it! Why are you waiting for a cavalry to siege them out? If I were the Yank I'd send the garrison out to kick their asses. If I'm going to lose the town and the garrison anyway, I'd rather make it cost you some hits. If I lose a few hits, too bad. The garrison is cooked meat already, just from the situation. And without artillery, you will never get them to surrender. Sheesh, stop confusing me ...

[GraniteStater]

Units next to depots can receive supply without wagons present. I've used it many times. How it works it the presence of the enemy I do not know, but it seems to be your problem since the pic shows Louisville to be stocked.

Which is why I corrected myself. 'Tis better with a Wagon, though. It's Supply...

and Demand. Level 1 and 2 towns do not demand. If they don't, at all, how much demand do you think a lil' ole Cav unit exerts, without a Wagon?

[Wheat]

Well, interesting discussion as my take away, folks that "know" the game don't "know" the game lol. As said at start, the depot in Louisville is level 3. So....no consensus on why my cavalry adjacent to Level 3 depot is starving to death. Perhaps I just now got enough MC to have supplies flow? I have had Louisville for a couple of turns. The cavalry at Harodsburg moved there one turn before I took it. The MC of Harodsburg is now at like 70%.

And guys, this is PBEM vs human. I was lucky to take Louisville, and as a bonus, captured the USS Boone ironclad under construction. We have renamed it the CSS Boonedoggle. I then sent Forrest to take Lexington, and he arrived full red/red, AFTER Hooker arrived...oh %$*@! Yeah, took one on the chin. So, taking Harodsburg is not in the cards. Just trying to hold Louisville till the Boonedoggle completes. Grant and Sherman are moving on Henry/Donaldson and Bowing Green respectively, and Uncle Joe needs to go kick some Yankee butt.

And omg, taking supply wagons with troops all over is not possible for the South for sure.

[GraniteStater]

no consensus on why my cavalry adjacent to Level 3 depot is starving to death.

You just took the place: "a couple of Turns". You have a much bigger unit in the supply zone demanding supply and probably don't have enough built up yet for extras for the Cav; plus, what is your RR rating? Plus, you're the CSA, and I have no idea what your overall GS/WS/Ammo situation is.

[Gray Fox]

I agree with GS. You have what looks like 3 Divisions in Louisville which need over 100 General Supply per turn.

[Cardinal Ape]

Well, interesting discussion as my take away, folks that "know" the game don't "know" the game lol.

I think I know this game, but the discoveries just keep coming... There is way too much information to keep in your head at once. And if you play more than one AGEod game, trying to keeping the differences between them sorted is too much. This game should come with a secretary.

[Wheat]

no consensus on why my cavalry adjacent to Level 3 depot is starving to death.

You just took the place: "a couple of Turns". You have a much bigger unit in the supply zone demanding supply and probably don't have enough built up yet for extras for the Cav; plus, what is your RR rating? Plus, you're the CSA, and I have no idea what your overall GS/WS/Ammo situation is.

The zone is adjacent. RR should not matter. But my RR was over 100. And yes, there are 3 divisiions in Louiville, but they have 3 wagons with them too. So, I should have plenty of supply, and its a dang level 3 depot. I think this game doesn't operate very consistently, which may be the idea, but it makes for way too much "guesswork".

[Gray Fox]

Most of the "guesswork" has been tryng to figure out what you are doing. Although you gave us a picture, it's pretty useless. If you cursor over Louisville with the supply overlay on, then you'll get a menu with actual numbers of GS/Ammo points coming in. The same for the region with the cav. A level 3 depot may not be getting any outside supply, if you don't have a line of regions with good MC connecting it to other depots. If you CTRL + Click on Louisville, you get a menu at the bottom of the screen of the structures present. Cursor over each one and you get a menu with info like how many supply points are generated by each. Normally Louisville with a level 3 depot would only generate about 60 GS, or 40 short of what your stack needs. Loyalty affects this too. So there may be no GS left over for the Cav next door.

[ArmChairGeneral]

It is difficult to secure the L&N railroad (the Louisville and Nashville). It is long and vulnerable to small Union raids from Indiana, as you are no doubt discovering. The throughput to Louisville is potentially limited by the size of the depot at Bowling green. It can take a couple of turns after you capture a depot to build up supplies there, particularly if you have a large stack eating most of the incoming supplies.

You must hold Bowling Green to maintain your position in Louisville; the Union can get riverine supply there fairly easily so does not need to connect by rail to stay supplied if they get their hands on it, which would totally cut you off in Louisville while the force behind you can stay well supplied.

[Gray Fox]

Nashville is 6 regions from Louisville. If you don't have a closer depot, then Louisville is not receiving any outside supplies and never will. If you have 100% loyalty, then Louisville only has about 95 supply generated by the city, harbor and depot. So no supply is left over for the cav.

P.S. Wheat, about your post, "Well, interesting discussion as my take away, folks that "know" the game don't "know" the game lol."
My friends and I have been trying to help you understand what you don't know. Maybe when you post things like that your Mommy thinks that you are sooo cute, but around here it's just rude. So the next time the game stumps you and you can't tell which one is the hole in the ground, just remember that you're talking with the grown-ups.

Have a nice day!

[Wheat]

Nashville is 6 regions from Louisville. If you don't have a closer depot, then Louisville is not receiving any outside supplies and never will. If you have 100% loyalty, then Louisville only has about 95 supply generated by the city, harbor and depot. So no supply is left over for the cav.

P.S. Wheat, about your post, "Well, interesting discussion as my take away, folks that "know" the game don't "know" the game lol."
My friends and I have been trying to help you understand what you don't know. Maybe when you post things like that your Mommy thinks that you are sooo cute, but around here it's just rude. So the next time the game stumps you and you can't tell which one is the hole in the ground, just remember that you're talking with the grown-ups.

Have a nice day!

You have obviously misinterpreted my post. The "lol" at the end was meant to show that I do think you and the other posters here know the game, but you fail to see it from a learners standpoint. The first response from GraniteStater was "you have to have a wagon present", ummm, was that a correct answer to my post GrayFox? So, as answers accumulated (and excuse me for not posting enough info, had I known I needed more I would have) I had to sift a bit to figure out an answer. Realize that while you and others "know" the game, your posts are not "official", nor are they necessarily always correct. This forum is full of questions and various answers because the game is half baked. I love the scope etc of the simulation, but the interface is clunky, the mechanics opaque, and the manual an embarrassment. But the game is still fun.

So, thanks for the time spent on my question, and no rudeness was intended.

[GraniteStater]

I said "I believe." There are a lot of conditions affecting every move on the map. I play by what makes sense, militarily. The conditions are designed to support this approach.

I wrote the Supply Primer as how I thought about it and chiefly from the Union POV. Extreme Paranoia works for me.

[RebelYell]

You have obviously misinterpreted my post. The "lol" at the end was meant to show that I do think you and the other posters here know the game, but you fail to see it from a learners standpoint. The first response from GraniteStater was "you have to have a wagon present", ummm, was that a correct answer to my post GrayFox? So, as answers accumulated (and excuse me for not posting enough info, had I known I needed more I would have) I had to sift a bit to figure out an answer. Realize that while you and others "know" the game, your posts are not "official", nor are they necessarily always correct. This forum is full of questions and various answers because the game is half baked. I love the scope etc of the simulation, but the interface is clunky, the mechanics opaque, and the manual an embarrassment. But the game is still fun.

So, thanks for the time spent on my question, and no rudeness was intended.

This community has a very wide age range, many people here are middle aged, many with military backround and/or other professionals of specific nature.

I am in between in those categories and have avoided these situations.

This is good ground for cultural collisions, add to that we have many different nationalities.

[DrPostman]

I don't know that I would enjoy this game even half as much without the
wisdom and experience shared here. It's what sets AGEOD apart. I've
rarely seen developers be this involved with their games AFTER they are
released!

[Gray Fox]

Wheat, I hope that we answered your question. If so, then you are most welcome!

[Straight Arrow]

I don't know that I would enjoy this game even half as much without the
wisdom and experience shared here. It's what sets AGEOD apart. I've
rarely seen developers be this involved with their games AFTER they are
released!

Amen!

[John S. Mosby]

I don't know that I would enjoy this game even half as much without the
wisdom and experience shared here. It's what sets AGEOD apart. I've
rarely seen developers be this involved with their games AFTER they are
released!

I wholeheartedly agree.

[Cardinal Ape]

To me this forum has a grumpy old man, get off my lawn, type of vibe to it. apy: I suspect that the bison in my backyard laugh more than some here. But I don't mean that in a bad way; I'd much rather share a forum with overly serious gamers/Civil War enthusiasts than a bunch of know-nothing teenagers who can't take the time to spell 'srly' correctly. Yeah, get off my lawn.