Blockade Box Percentages

[Straight Arrow]

Place your runners in one blockade box; this will force the Federal player to station ships in an empty box to maintain the blockade percentage.


Is this statement true?

[Gray Fox]

Absolutely.

[Captain_Orso]

And what is the significance of that?

[Gray Fox]

To maintain the blockade, the Union must split his ships between the two boxes. The CSA does not have to oblige by placing runners at the mercy of both blockade fleets. If all the runners are in one stack in one box then the Union only gets one chance per turn to detect them, rather than two chances. Only runners that are detected can be attacked.

[Captain_Orso]

That also means that I only need to deploy my hunter-killer groups in one blockade box rather than split them between two.

The danger of being intercepted by the Blockade Flotillas is so small, I basically wouldn't give a dang..a darn...a hoot , whether they find a an occasional runner or not.

That being said, the last time I played the South I did put my runners exclusively in the Gulf Blockade Box, but that was because of how much quicker they are getting to and coming form the Gulf Box into Mobile, that from the Atlantic Box to for example Wilmington or Charleston. Since Athena doesn't deploy any hunter-killer groups, there's no issue.

[Gray Fox]

Set to Green/Green, the blockade force will eventually sink any runners. This delays that eventuality.

[Captain_Orso]

I've never set my Blockade Flotillas to PP other than while moving them to and from port while 'refitting' them once they've lost enough cohesion. I'll have to try that out.

[hanny1]

Place your runners in one blockade box; this will force the Federal player to station ships in an empty box to maintain the blockade percentage.


Is this statement true?

Thats going to happen anyway to drop CS production values.

So the cost benifit is really on if your caught as a one stack, or seperated into more stacks. What happens when the single stack is found?, does it run to port for repair, does it have the 35% evade admiral with it or not?.

I dont see there is a right answer, only that if a uber stack is found, and hurt, your going to have make choices that appear more important if you have yet to increase your industry output to compensate for the lost income.

[Gray Fox]

As I have posted elsewhere, runners are not worth building. The two single ship runners are worth filling out, because you start with some replacement chits for runners. Then the runners are not worth fixing. That costs resources that they will never survive long enough to recover. My experience with the blockade fleet is that when they detect a stack, the runners take 35-40 hits. That's more than one ship has, so it would be sunk. A runner with one hit remaining still brings in trade. So I put them all in one stack and they can absorb about two beatings.

[Captain_Orso]

I never put the runners into stacks. Just leave them alone, each in their own stack. They should be harder to detect, plus, if one does get caught, it's only the one. I don't think I ever lost one.

[Cardinal Ape]

I go with single stacks as well and I never build more.

hanny1 suggested using an admiral but I think using one actually decreases the fleets hide value, plus the evasion trait only works while moving.

[Gray Fox]

I posted a while back that the naval commanders actually decrease the runners ability to evade contact. I'm not familiar with the actual game mechanics, but from what I understand the Union Blockade should get an opportunity to detect each stack of runners each turn. So more stacks of runners means more opportunities to be detected and attacked. One stack faces only one chance to be detected. Stacks of single units don't get an evasion bonus over one stack. So, one stack of runners with no commander set to Green/Green, evade combat, gets my vote.

[LCcmdr]

I posted a while back that the naval commanders actually decrease the runners ability to evade contact. I'm not familiar with the actual game mechanics, but from what I understand the Union Blockade should get an opportunity to detect each stack of runners each turn. So more stacks of runners means more opportunities to be detected and attacked. One stack faces only one chance to be detected. Stacks of single units don't get an evasion bonus over one stack. So, one stack of runners with no commander set to Green/Green, evade combat, gets my vote.

From reading prior posts over the last several years, What Gray Fox has said equals the cumulative, conventional wisdom of our forum mates: each stack (regardless of units) just adds to the AI's opportunity to find and engage. Hence, fewer stacks give the CSA better chances for survival.

OTOH, splitting the Union navy into more stacks should give it more chances for engagement (though provide less firepower), too.

[Gray Fox]

True. I use about 5 blockade squadrons in each box. I could split them into 5 stacks. However, I as the CSA have all the runners in one stack. Each 8-ship BS is now outnumbered by the ships in the runner stack that it detected.

I actually don't care if the blockade fleet ever finds runners. The two blockade fleets of 5 squadrons each that I use aren't hunter-killers. They deny the CSA a certain percentage of their production each turn. That's why they exist. Set to Green/Green, they will do this at minimal cost to me. This way, they accomplish the primary mission of costing the CSA $25+ per turn and also have a chance to destroy any runners while taking minimal damage.

[hanny1]

I go with single stacks as well and I never build more.

hanny1 suggested using an admiral but I think using one actually decreases the fleets hide value, plus the evasion trait only works while moving.

Ranking Admiral is the one whose ability gets applied, so if you have 2, stack gets hurt use the second, the one with a 35% evasion rating, to bring the damaged ones back to port with less chance of an intercept. If your not hurt, use him and a single ship to run back to port, re stock and rejoin the fleet, this allows the fleet to stay at sea and be resupplied.

Single stack being found in 61 would be worse than later in the game, i always send the Richmond warship out with the blockade runner after Norfolk falls, in case no one has tried that.

[Gray Fox]

I can't recommend that the runners should ever be repaired. They will never bring in enough resources to pay for the replacement chits.

I've read about using one runner to resupply a group. Let's examine this.

One runner unit goes to port and resupplies to full. It then returns to a stack of runners and the supplies are evened out.

If the runner never gets caught, then this always is to your advantage to do.

However, if it does get caught, then most likely a single unit will be sunk. It will no longer be available to bring in resources. This is its primary mission.

If you use the blockade runner Admiral to reduce the chance to get caught that would help.

However, I read in another thread that you can't exactly move an Admiral around using riverine points. He would have to be with the runners. He would help with the resupply ship every now and then (a secondary mission), but he would always reduce the evasion value of the runner unit(s) to escape detection and bring in resources (their primary mission).

One might use the raider Frigates with the blockade runner Admiral to do the partial resupply. The Frigates would also have a better ability to survive combat if detected. Upon entering the box with the runners, the Admiral could stay with one Frigate while the other shared supplies with the runners and then switch Frigates. This way the Admiral never stacks with the runners and the supplies still get shared. Then the Frigates could go back to raiding.

[Cardinal Ape]

I've never really experimented with grouping or separating runners. Going with the method that results in less checks would make sense.

Today I have come to the conclusion that naval units can not take hits from lack of supply. I am using the harshest attrition and supply options with full control of the naval boxes. I only spent about 10 minuets messing around with ships, couldn't get any starvation to occur. Just hits from bad weather.

I have always just assumed that ships would need food so I have kept them fed, but my opponent has some of my ships pinned down with coastal artillery. If I move my ships they will die, so I left them there. For months now they have been without food. They are still at full strength. Even through the dead of winter.

[Captain_Orso]

What do you mean by "supply options"?

Ships at sea will only start taking hits from lack of supply once their GS has been exhausted. Did you wait for that?

From my experience, once GS is gone cohesion goes down fast and hits do occur.

[Cardinal Ape]

I mean easy supply off.

Yes, I waited for GS to run out. I got messages saying they were out of supply, but nothing about them taking hits from lack of supply. They sit for many turns without food, still at full strength. My land units starve just fine, but not my boats.

[Gray Fox]

The sea boxes are of course an abstraction. Runners in the box(es) would be entering a foreign port for resources and then actually entering a CSA port to deliver them. They shouldn't need to resupply at sea. Union transports that move supply points between ports every turn without ever leaving the shipping box might also be assumed to move supplies to Blockade Squadrons.

[W.Barksdale]

What are your settings re naval box handling?

[Cardinal Ape]

I've no clue if it is intended to be an abstraction that all ships are immune to starvation, but it does render the Naval boxes Handling option almost pointless. Ships won't lose cohesion in the boxes, but if there is no supply to be micro-managed then you are just choosing to make less money and WS.

Aside from gunboats and brigs, the issue of no naval starvation is probably a moot point. Getting a ship to intentionally run out of GS is a pain in the neck. Failing to keep ships in supply during a game requires a HUGE level of neglect. Guntboats carry the fewest amount of supplies, enough for 5 turns. Brigs and frigates carry 16 turns worth. Blockade squadrons hold enough for 50 turns and transports don't even eat food!

My settings:
[ATTACH]37742[/ATTACH]

A picture of a full strength fleet that has been out of GS since May:
[ATTACH]37743[/ATTACH]

P.S. Sorry for hijacking your thread Straight Arrow.

[Gray Fox]

I also don't know the game mechanic at all, but it does seem to me from my limited understanding of what is going on that the ships shouldn't need to return to port.