Right now when the player (or the AI for that matter) starts beating up an opponent he often captures his arty and supply wagons, which seems logical. And when cities are stormed, depots, fort batteries and port batteries are captured too. This is all normal (well provided the AI doesn't specifically send arty your way for you to capture it...).
Talking with Vicberg about the Tilsit peace, I explained my fear that all the captured equipment would cripple the AI + leads to absurd situation where after a peace treaty with Austria or Prussia, I still end up controling batteries or depots deep into their territory. He then told me that the command GetBackUnits existed that could give back units to a side after a peace treaty : all captured prussian units are reverted to the prussians after peace. As there is no way to filter which units (ideally only fort and port batteries + depots would be included), it means all supply wagon and arty are given back.
Still this is a good thing as it ensures that the AI keeps all these units.
As a compensation, Peace treaties should give WS to the victor to emulate captured guns and supplies and arsenals and stuff.
Would that be easily doable in a forthcoming patch ?
Pocus wrote:I doubt GetBackUnit will work as they were not leased in the first place...
Well that's unfortunate... It's just that it really is absurd for me to still own the fort batteries and depots of Danzig, Koenigsberg and all once peace has been signed... wouldn't there be a way to avoid that ? maybe a double action trick where :
- Those units get destroyed the turned after peace was signed (perhaps giving the player some Conscripts, money and WS emulating all the captured stuff)
- New units of this type (ie fort / port batteries and Depots) are spawned for the nation now at peace so that it's military infrastructure is functionnal ?
The problem I see with that is, how does the AI reconcile units that have already been integrated into your stacks - ie captured supply and artillery units? Does it split them out from your stack when the "flip" to their previous nationality?
One issue that occurred with me was that I had Grouchy commanding a stack of Dutch troops, after receiving an Expeditionary Force from Holland. I then cancelled the Dutch Expeditionary Force. On the next turn, Grouchy was no longer French - he had converted to Dutch nationality, and was no longer controllable by the French.
There needs to be some testing for the GetBackUnit command.
One issue that occurred with me was that I had Grouchy commanding a stack of Dutch troops, after receiving an Expeditionary Force from Holland. I then cancelled the Dutch Expeditionary Force. On the next turn, Grouchy was no longer French - he had converted to Dutch nationality, and was no longer controllable by the French.
There needs to be some testing for the GetBackUnit command.
Montbrun wrote:The problem I see with that is, how does the AI reconcile units that have already been integrated into your stacks - ie captured supply and artillery units? Does it split them out from your stack when the "flip" to their previous nationality?
One issue that occurred with me was that I had Grouchy commanding a stack of Dutch troops, after receiving an Expeditionary Force from Holland. I then cancelled the Dutch Expeditionary Force. On the next turn, Grouchy was no longer French - he had converted to Dutch nationality, and was no longer controllable by the French.
There needs to be some testing for the GetBackUnit command.
For sure, my point was mainly that I think there is an issue there : after trashing Austria or Prussia one gains many units all over the place from them, including many static units that should revert to their original owner in a peace process, be it actually revert or finding a derivative (ie destruction of the unit than spawning). It's really going to cripple the AI I think.
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loki100
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there are geographically based commands that allow you alter ownership of units. You might want to phase this so it fires say 2 turns after the peace treaty fires so as to disentangle the return of your own units (I did something like this for the opening phases of the American Civil War in PoN).
Montbrun has a valid point but its unlikely that you have integrated units that can only really be moved by boat into your stacks.
But this is why I think you may want to explore using geography not original nationality, lets say you looted those Prussian forts of their guns etc to boost the defences of France?
Montbrun has a valid point but its unlikely that you have integrated units that can only really be moved by boat into your stacks.
But this is why I think you may want to explore using geography not original nationality, lets say you looted those Prussian forts of their guns etc to boost the defences of France?
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PoN Manufacturing Italy; A clear bright sun
RoP The Mightiest Empires Fall
WIA Burning down the Houses; Wars in America; The Tea Wars
loki100 wrote:there are geographically based commands that allow you alter ownership of units. You might want to phase this so it fires say 2 turns after the peace treaty fires so as to disentangle the return of your own units (I did something like this for the opening phases of the American Civil War in PoN).
Montbrun has a valid point but its unlikely that you have integrated units that can only really be moved by boat into your stacks.
But this is why I think you may want to explore using geography not original nationality, lets say you looted those Prussian forts of their guns etc to boost the defences of France?
I was thinking about the "Supply Wagons" and mobile artillery units, not depots and "emplaced" artillery.
Aurelin wrote:Don't think *any* captured unit should be given back. You can get the men back and their clothes. But I wouldn't give back the cannon/muskets/horses
Fair enough, but really it makes no sense for the french to still own the fixed cannons and depots of Koenigsberg, Dantzig and other prussian cities after the tilsit peace !
If the command worked I would be positively surprised, but surprised nonetheless 
As for the rest, yes that would be an improvement, to get back these units and liberate prisoners. But there are a few others issues to tackle before dealing with this refinement. At least you know this is not crippling the AI as it don't tie her force pool, they can be rebuilt with resources. Be fair and disband them!
As for the rest, yes that would be an improvement, to get back these units and liberate prisoners. But there are a few others issues to tackle before dealing with this refinement. At least you know this is not crippling the AI as it don't tie her force pool, they can be rebuilt with resources. Be fair and disband them!
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Pocus wrote:If the command worked I would be positively surprised, but surprised nonetheless
As for the rest, yes that would be an improvement, to get back these units and liberate prisoners. But there are a few others issues to tackle before dealing with this refinement. At least you know this is not crippling the AI as it don't tie her force pool, they can be rebuilt with resources. Be fair and disband them!
agreed, it's not the biggess issue, but I'd be surprised if the AI actually rebuilt those depots and emplaced batteries. It would be better if they could "respawn" after a while.
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