Questions in regards to gameplay

[BattleVonWar]

Thanks for all the information sharing so far, it has helped me learn to play, a few questions if anyone has the time. Thank you in advance for your time and help.

1. When I move a unit via Rail or Riverine, sometimes I want to bypass a situation. I checked the manual but I may have missed the section where you can say march by land to 1 territory, rail to 2nd territory, march again by land to the 3rd territory, then rail the rest of the way. Now I don't think this is an available feature but I am not sure? Can you force movement the way you want or does the game auto you?

2. The manual says every 4 provinces I need a Depot to transfer supply along a chain, is this true? So far I've seen this to be true... Secondly how do I blockade a Riverine Supply chain or keep my own open? Now I know I've read but these rules are often not precise from the manual. Riverine supply? How does it work? Basically...

3. It also seems river crossing units either get blocked but never sunk. Do Riverine units ever sink? I have yet to witness 1 instance unless they were on transports. That was vs Athena.

4. All Artillery Divisions, excellent, never take casualties. What size would you use in your non Brass... 20 lbsers or lighter?

5. Conscripts ... Terrible to train, how would you train Conscripts as the CSA? Straight to small battles or try not to buy them if you can help it?

6. Frontage. I click on a unit, 1000 CmbtPwer. I click on say an adjacent territory. I see this, with supply on. 48 For Line Elts, 15 for support Elts beneath it. The actual number of your units that will partake in combat? Line Elements? Line Support Elements. Infantry/Artillery-Cavalry I assume? I see no penalty for any elements. If I get there with a Corp or Army what is the advantage of committing more elements to a situation where the frontage only allows for so much? Even if the reserves can relieve the tired exhausted front line units it seems limiting as I have many more elements than these in a designated attack group. I may have 3 Xs that many elements that can partake or 4 Xs or 5-6Xs...but these will never take part in the combat? I know there is no math drop down menu for this but I would like one. At least to relate to precisely guess what my opponent will have and what I will have in units to fight ... Often I see 2 Divisions fight with many more in reserve that never partake. I know that Mountains or Weather influence things. I also notice whoa, you get some penalties for those, how do you guys fight in mountains?(read irregulars are smart here, or other types of units)

7. Entrenchment value increases the combat defense by what ratio? 100% is that 2Xs? 200%, 3Xs? Etc... A garrisoned(And does there have to a unit inside to receive this bonus?) city/supply source, depot, gives a 25% advantage to the defender? How do you bypass this very rich value in a narrow front without the ability to flank or do you bother?

Apologies if some of this has been covered the manual or here previously. I looked back 5 pages and I cannot really say for certain I come to understand these questions. Also more questions to come thank you again if you have the time to chime in and answer these.


P.S. RGDs, demonstrations? They seem a waste of money... Rarely see them used but in a very very tight situation? Agreed? 51% plus gives you a view into your opponent and 75%+ prevents his production in the region? That's it???

[Durk]

Lots of great questions. I will address a few knowing others will better address the others.

1. Move the unit manually region by region and you can make this happen.

2. Yes, every four regions for depots. Lots of ways to block river supply - ships, forts. Keeping your own open, the reverse. Keep enemy fleets and forts off your supply path. River supply is mostly dependent upon your control of ports. Pretty much the same as rail supply, conceptually. If you control the path, you get the supply.

3. Riverine units passing forts can get sunk.

5. Throw the into battle with a good leader.

[Cardinal Ape]

Demonstration RGD cards are great in the early game. I use them on lightly defended Union depots to increase the loyalty to 50%+. Then you can attack with rangers or cavalry and take the depot to destroy it. Salem, IL is a good example. Santa Fe and Denver are good targets too. Giving a bunch of rangers to Shelby in the far west can be hard to stop.

[Captain_Orso]

3. You will never have combat between units crossing a river and gunboats patrolling it. A force trying to cross a river patrolled by gunboats are not trying to fight their way across. That would be a-historical. The crossing units are looking for an opportunity when the gunboats are far away and not risking being attacked.

5. You can hardly avoid buy units without conscripts. Put HQ-Support units with your corps to gain XP as much as possible. Use Taylor to train-up where possible.

6. Frontage IS limited. The affects are a combination of terrain and leadership abilities. Terrain limitations are absolute, but the greater the abilities of your leaders, the more troops they will be able to put into that limited frontage. The rest is in reserve.

7. Not too long ago GrayFox wrote about the affects of entrenchments. Search for that.

[Mickey3D]

2. It depends ... if you can't use rail or river movement to transport your supply then it is moved at the speed of a supply wagon. There can't be more than 5 regions and 15 days of travel between the source and destination. So depending on the terrain of the regions the supply is moving through, you might need to build a depot less than 4 regions apart. Take also into account the weather (mud or harsh weather will slow down movement).

Edit : The 15 days travel distance is a rule of thumb I use to know if my supply will reach its destination. I'm not sure it is computed that way in the game engine but this rule has been very effective until now.

[FightingBuckeye]

The only time I've either had troops on the river die or killed enemy troops on the river is when they were using said river to travel. In this case it's possible for any river fleet to or entrenched artillery to damage said force.

As far as supply goes, as far as I understand it, there are three phases of supply movement. The shorter the distance between source and destination of supply/ammo the more times supply could be pushed during anyone phase. This is why rail and riverine transport is so important. So if you have an area that can't be serviced by riverine/railroad, you could improve supply by cutting down on the distance between depots so that more supply will flow out to those areas. Shorter distances also helps during bad weather when it's harder to push supply through. Lastly, having smaller distances between depots can add some insurance to partisan/indian destruction of your depots as one going down won't automatically shut down your entire supply line. They're expensive to build, which is why I will use and abuse those flatboats to no end. I will oftentimes saturate an area with more depots than I need and have 1-2 flatboats on standby in key areas to immediately rebuild any depots that go down.

[BattleVonWar]

Thanks for all the feedback, a few things I did know. A few things that felt intuitively correct and a few things I was clueless about.

Aside understanding how to maneuver and construct the most workable units, supply is next to godly. You lose without it. I tend to attack depots with partisans and shipped in Indians. Very very deadly... Makes you always want to bring a spare Wagon on a large forward placed stack. Will have to make note of that. Long distance Recon is even tough in this game. Many of my Cav units die out doing this. Effective Cav only composition is something I rarely see.

Frontage is a tough thing still even after 100 battles ... and locked movement is impossible, unless manual...the unit takes the shortest route no matter what if your riverine or rail is utilized.

[Gray Fox]

4. I've tried to tell people.
I use 20 lbers if I can afford them.

6. The line elements refers to infantry/cavalry and the support elements refers mostly to artillery, although if you run out of artillery to fill this part of the front then other elements might show up.

[ATTACH]33542[/ATTACH]

The elements are chosen randomly, so if you have militia and elite elements, some rounds the militia show up. Even at All Out Attack, after your side takes 20% casualties, you withdraw. So if enough of the militia fight first and run away, even your elite troops will run with them. You can't always choose where you will defend, but you always choose where you will attack, so attack with the best troops you can muster.

Overwhelming numbers can make a difference. A force well entrenched in excellent defensive terrain and set to Hold At All Cost may really stick it to a larger attack force...but then withdraw even from your capital. I've only found a force to actually HAAC if they are inside a structure.

"Offensiveness and Defensiveness" in the terrain menu affect the combat values of the intended element types. So in the pic, cavalry are only at 90% in hills with harsh weather.

Don't attack into mountains or swamps or in harsh weather unless you have some overwhelming advantage. Use maneuver to cut off such regions.

7. This is from the AGEWiki:

PM = Protection Modifier: (1-level of enemies entrechment/10)*(1-terrain protection/10)*(1-unit protection/10)

The to-hit chance of the attacker is multipled by this modifier for entrenchment levels 1-4.

FYI, the defending artillery get a bonus to their to-hit chance for entrenchment levels 1-8.

EM = Entrenchment Modifier (artillery only): 1+Level of entrenchment/10

http://www.ageod.net/agewiki/Combat_Explained#Fire_Phase

[FightingBuckeye]

4. I've tried to tell people.

"Offensiveness and Defensiveness" in the terrain menu affect the combat values of the intended element types. So in the pic, cavalry are only at 90% in hills with harsh weather.

Just to clarify something, the terrain penalties are separate from the weather ones. So if a battle occured in that region, cavalry would operate at 90% BEFORE the harsh weather penalties are added. See below for hills in clear weather, you can see that the effectiveness of cavalry is still 90% in clear weather. In other words the terrain overlay doesn't take into account whatever weather is in a given region.

[ATTACH]33543[/ATTACH]

Oh and count me in as a believer in those artillery divisions. Not all my corps/army stacks have an artillery division, but the ones that do tend to do a lot better in combat. I just wish it were easier to swap sub-units in divisions in and out. Because I'm constantly moving divisions in and out of corps or detach a division for indenpendent operations. And I can't justify a 2 division corps to have one of them be solely artillery and I can't send out a division on indenpendent operations without some artillery.

[BattleVonWar]

Gray Fox, I DLed one of your games where you show your unit makeup. I saw a division with nothing but 20 LBSers and I imagine the range for that is the bonus? Though the price? Union yes, CSA less likely...

I will have to wrap my head around the math there. I went to the WIKI and then the subsequent AGEOD webpages and whoa... The calculations and terminologies will require math I haven't used since the 9th-10th grade and I hoped to never use again. I loathe math as much as English.(Have to call in a Mathematician in for a little assistance) :P Though informative and precise.

Glad to finally see how the battles are calculated(an in game cheat sheet with a very rough draft on possible outcomes would be a nice addition to the game and nearly all games benefit from one) :P

I have been following your postings. Elites, added Marine, added Sharp Shooter and you have a division there. It is just so hard as the CSA to organize this quickly and easily.(if at all in certain Theaters) The Union seems faster at it. So I wonder if the CSA doesn't have a better chance pre 1862 to actually kick the Union's butt. Not only but she trains her conscripts, earns experience faster, and has a better position to defend from. Defensive play as as strategy at the onset of War for the CSA is a death recipe.

I have noted your information on the Elements allowed in various terrain. I have borrowed that and learned tremendously. Clear/Clear is ideal for a large beautiful army. Also noted even an elite Division holding in the worst terrain and weather retreating out just because and other times fighting till the bitter end.

Thank you for the added 2 cents/and everyone else.

[Gray Fox]

Actually, that artillery Division was aimed at Richmond, which is a Woods region. So the max range in battle was only 4, but the 20 lbers do a lot more cohesion damage than lighter guns. That's why I chose them.

[ArmChairGeneral]

Spot on about early aggression as the CSA. Their quality, leadership and replacement speed advantages either decay or get overwhelmed by numbers later in the game, so you typically need to attack early. Success in the field translates into higher NM, which give production and combat bonuses and lead to more wins in the field....

[Rod Smart]

5- use and abuse those training officers. If I remember correctly, conscripts get their first star at 5 experience points, and their second at 15. They upgrade to line infantry at 2 stars. So that's 15 turns, 225 days.

If you have headquarters units in your force pool, there is never a reason to not use them.

[Mickey3D]

4. All Artillery Divisions, excellent, never take casualties. What size would you use in your non Brass... 20 lbsers or lighter?

If an artillery division is never affected by combat (even by the newly added counterbattery fire) then this is a problem that should be solved.

[ArmChairGeneral]

5- use and abuse those training officers. If I remember correctly, conscripts get their first star at 5 experience points, and their second at 15. They upgrade to line infantry at 2 stars. So that's 15 turns, 225 days.

I think you are referring to a Training Master here, although you should use and abuse both Training Masters AND Training Officers (the ones who upgrade two elements per turn in the stack they command).

Did the upgrade system change in a recent patch? It used to be that the upgrade was based on a 7% per turn chance to upgrade once the element had one star, with the % chance increasing with additional stars, and the stars resetting to zero once the upgrade fired. Mean-time-to-happen for upgrade was ~14 turns after the first star was acquired, and ~7 turns once a second star was added.

With an HQ or Training Master present a conscript can get its first star (on average) after three turns, and 10 turns (on average) without a TM, assuming no combat. (Element have a base 50% chance of receiving 1 xp per turn. With a TM, that is 1 xp + 50% chance of another xp per turn, or an average of 1.5 xp per turn.)

[ArmChairGeneral]

If an artillery division is never affected by combat (even by the newly added counterbattery fire) then this is a problem that should be solved.

Artillery hardly ever take hits no matter where they are placed, whether in a dedicated division, in a mixed division, or loose in a stack. Counterbattery fire was introduced to address this, but it is unclear (to me at least) that this is actually working; I have not noticed a higher number of artillery hits occurring, and I have been looking for it.

There is nothing special about an artillery division that helps prevent hits to the artillery: they aren't taking hits because artillery (for the most part) doesn't take hits regardless. The propensity of an artillery division to concentrate its fire, and the larger number of infantry in the rest of the divisions are what makes arty divisions perform better.

[Gray Fox]

Artillery Divisions in the game represent the actual historical use of Union artillery Brigades and Confederate artillery Battalions. They work really well because the game simulates the RW success that these formations had. It is not an exploit to use a hammer to pound nails. A cannon may be able to fire a round two miles, but that does not mean that it can hit another cannon at that range. Lee ordered his artillery to suppress Union guns prior to Pickett's charge. I think Pickett would agree that this wasn't very successful. A barrage may hit the broad side of a Division in line, but I believe that RW sharpshooters were used to suppress artillerymen.

[BattleVonWar]

Artillery fired at artillery right before Pickett's charge. They were doing okay, in fact the Union side wrote of such horrendous carnage as to be unheard of... I think some of those rounds came in range of killing Meade and or some important Generals. The reality was the CSA ran out of ammo and barely had enough to keep the rate of fire up. The Union held off and waited for the charge and then unleashed hell. The doctrine of the day was flawed, "Give them the bayonet was not what was instrumental." It was give them, "The concentrated firepower of the rifle from cover." Fredericksburg was the reverse of Pickett's charge. The roaring cannon cut down men in wholesale slaughter during both situations but the CSA troops were out in the open, over a division of the best men the South had. Pickett never forgave Lee and when Pickett asked Longstreet, "Do I go." he grudged at answering. I hear he didn't want to... He wanted to march down between Washington and avoid the whole carnage.

later in life Pickett would say, "That old man killed my men." Paraphrasing his own words.

Artillery Divisions in the game represent the actual historical use of Union artillery Brigades and Confederate artillery Battalions. They work really well because the game simulates the RW success that these formations had. It is not an exploit to use a hammer to pound nails. A cannon may be able to fire a round two miles, but that does not mean that it can hit another cannon at that range. Lee ordered his artillery to suppress Union guns prior to Pickett's charge. I think Pickett would agree that this wasn't very successful. A barrage may hit the broad side of a Division in line, but I believe that RW sharpshooters were used to suppress artillerymen.

[Gray Fox]

Well I read that the Confederate artillery barrage overshot the mark. The Union artillery was ordered to fire all guns in return, then fewer guns and finally fewer still to simply appear as though they were being successfully suppressed.

http://historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/4387

I believe eyewitness accounts report 1-2 hours of horrendous, bone-jarring hell, but the AAR's are a more sober description of a miserable failure.

[BattleVonWar]

So the HQ acts like a training master with a chance at upgrading conscripts per turn via experience. Wasn't sure the system worked via experience.

The achilles tendon of the south is it's tons of volunteers/militia ... along with untrained conscripts. You can sometimes buy regulars, but usually in strange assorted regiments/unit/brigades..cannon/2 regs/1 cav/etc....

I now get a Training Master General in 1862 though... still a far cry from what is it 2 to start with for the Union, maybe 3? I'm up against about 2 to 1 ratios in a game in 1863. The Union does not have a conscript one, I have 25% at least in front line men. Not a pretty sight...

~Guess I want all large stacks grouped with an HQ.

P.S. what do you do with gunky victory point giving Volunteers?

[Gray Fox]

The CSA can assemble 20 of these Divisions:

[ATTACH]33549[/ATTACH]

That's seven line infantry, three conscripts, three militia, one sharpshooter, two conscript cavalry and only one 6 lber.

[BattleVonWar]

I think you mean spread the lowend stuff about in small doses so as to give it a chance to upgrade and not hinder your regular divisions.

The CSA can assemble 20 of these Divisions:

[ATTACH]33549[/ATTACH]

That's seven line infantry, three conscripts, three militia, one sharpshooter, two conscript cavalry and only one 6 lber.

[Gray Fox]

Or you might recruit a lot of militia in 1861 and hope that they become stouter stuff by '62.

[Rod Smart]

I think you are referring to a Training Master here, although you should use and abuse both Training Masters AND Training Officers (the ones who upgrade two elements per turn in the stack they command).

Did the upgrade system change in a recent patch? It used to be that the upgrade was based on a 7% per turn chance to upgrade once the element had one star, with the % chance increasing with additional stars, and the stars resetting to zero once the upgrade fired. Mean-time-to-happen for upgrade was ~14 turns after the first star was acquired, and ~7 turns once a second star was added.

With an HQ or Training Master present a conscript can get its first star (on average) after three turns, and 10 turns (on average) without a TM, assuming no combat. (Element have a base 50% chance of receiving 1 xp per turn. With a TM, that is 1 xp + 50% chance of another xp per turn, or an average of 1.5 xp per turn.)

I stand corrected. During the game it always seemed like they'd get promoted around the same time they'd get a second star, but I suppose that's just how the percent chances worked out.

The point remains though. Use those headquarters units. And use your generals with those attributes (north and south). It should be noted that the abilities do not stack together, so Bragg and an HQ don't give you 2 points a turn.

[ArmChairGeneral]

BattleVonWar said:

The achilles tendon of the south is it's tons of volunteers/militia ... along with untrained conscripts. You can sometimes buy regulars, but usually in strange assorted regiments/unit/brigades..cannon/2 regs/1 cav/etc....

~Guess I want all large stacks grouped with an HQ.

P.S. what do you do with gunky victory point giving Volunteers?

HQs always go into the largest frontline stacks I have. I send Bragg to New Orleans where he speeds conversion of the International Brigade (actually, their upgrade to regulars may be scripted, not sure) and the conscript heavy LA pool. He should be able to prevent any early shenanigans coming out of Ft. Pickens, and by the time NO is actually under a real threat there has been time to upgrade a lot of stuff there and I have gotten around to rotating ASJ south to take command from him. (Bragg is pretty good overall, as long as he is under someone higher ranked as either a second in command or as a Corps commander, although he is annoyingly senior, so you have to search around for someone who outranks him. His CP handicap makes him a liability only when he is in independent command.) I use Hardee in the West wherever I have my largest stack.

The Southern mixed brigades are a fact of life. For the most part I don't worry too much about their conscripts. They upgrade relatively quickly, and between Bragg and Hardee in the West and an HQ unit or two in the largest VA stacks you can get most 1861-1862 conscripts under TMs if you make the effort. In the interim they aren't as good as line infantry, but they aren't made of paper like Vols and Militia either, so long as you don't have too many of them in one division. The real problem with the mixed brigades is how many of them come with integrated 6 lbers that take up space that could have been used for something better. There are a lot of Line/Conscript/12 lber brigades in the KY and TN force pools, which are pretty solid, but reduce your flexibility in forming a "perfect" Order of Battle.

As far as how to use Volunteers, I simply avoid building them. I can't afford to build everything in my pool anyway, so no sense spending resources on substandard units until Taylor comes on board and can upgrade them. There are a lot of them in the pool, but they are mostly useless. They have poor firepower, reduced number of total hits, lower cohesion and (most importantly) low discipline, so they break easily when they ttake hits, which then forces other elements in battle with them to also make discipline checks and become shaken or even break if they fail. They also take forever to upgrade via experience. Cooper can train 6 elements when he shows up in Richmond, so I usually try to get three of the scripted Volunteer brigades (Light Inf/Vol/Vol) that start in VA or WV into his stack to turn them into regulars, which then makes them into pretty nice infantry brigades. You have more of these than you want already, and Cooper is only there for three turns, so no need building any other Vols for him to upgrade. Vols are useful to prevent easy capture of stockades; one Vol and an autospawned militia can hold off most cavalry/Indian raids on stockades and at least prevent an easy flip in cases where the autogarrison doesn't spawn.

Mounted Infantry are an exception; I would build more if they were available in the right spots. They use the Volunteer model, not a cav model, but with speed just a bit slower than cav. They work great to beef up a Cav/HA stack in open territory like MO without costing too much movement. I use those stacks for stockade warfare and for running down the loose brigades that Athena always has scurrying around northern Missouri.

[Mickey3D]

Artillery hardly ever take hits no matter where they are placed, whether in a dedicated division, in a mixed division, or loose in a stack. Counterbattery fire was introduced to address this, but it is unclear (to me at least) that this is actually working; I have not noticed a higher number of artillery hits occurring, and I have been looking for it.

There is nothing special about an artillery division that helps prevent hits to the artillery: they aren't taking hits because artillery (for the most part) doesn't take hits regardless. The propensity of an artillery division to concentrate its fire, and the larger number of infantry in the rest of the divisions are what makes arty divisions perform better.

My experience shows that artillery in a mixed division can easily suffer hits.

I agree artillery counterbattery might be not very effective at this time but I get the feeling the arty division is now invincible.

[FightingBuckeye]

Yes, as long as it's got an intact meat shield in front of them, arty divisions do a lot of damage without suffering many (any) hits in return.

[ArmChairGeneral]

My experience shows that artillery in a mixed division can easily suffer hits.

I agree artillery counterbattery might be not very effective at this time but I get the feeling the arty division is now invincible.

Interesting, I will have to look more carefully, maybe sandboxing some controlled conditions for direct comparison now that I have some time on my hands again. If "normal" artillery are now (finally ) taking hits but arty divisions are not, then I would have to agree that that is not cool.

(Just to be clear about our terms, even before counterbatterry fire my arty took hits during crushing losses. In run-of-the mill battles, though, even with counterbattery fire, my arty have been mostly unscathed. Several different possible explanations come to mind, but artillery targeting and counterbattery fire deserves its own thread.)

[DrPostman]

If players feel like pure artillery divisions ruin the game but like how
they do concentrate fire they could always put in one infantry unit and
that would draw fire on the whole division.

[Cardinal Ape]

I have also noticed my artillery divisions remain quite healthy after combat, even in really big combats or assaults. Maybe the counterbattery chance should be increased a good amount. Would be nice to see two opposing artillery divisions lay into each other.

One thing I have wondered is if you can you capture artillery when it is inside a division or does it have to be outside the army stack on its own?