Region borders (example of how CW2 graphics lost the plot)

[Bullman]

Hello

Anyone know if there is a way to better see/highlight the region borders when looking at the map? A hotkey perhaps? This game is like playing chess without seeing the chessboard :/

If I were playing any other AGEOD game, I would not be asking this question, which leads me to say the following...

As much as I like AGEOD and what they have produced, I really think that from a graphical/artistic point of view, CW2 represents a HUGE poorly considered step backwards. Just look at their first ever releases (BoA, AACW even AJE and others) compared to CW2. The quality of the art and presentation and visual feel of those games in all areas all seemed part of a tasteful, cohesive, consistent well thought out and balanced graphical style and approach that is evident in all aspects of the game and common across many of the titles, perhaps with some minor differences. It actually made me want to play the game. Very clean and functional graphics (from unit counter art to map to UI buttons etc) with a definite color platelet that all just blends and complement and fit in so well with each other that you know that such work could not have happened by accident. A clear direction about the style of graphical representation must have been decided upon and adhered to very early on and is clearly evident.

But what happened with CW2? The ball was dropped. It seemed that AGEOD wanted to "change things up" and graphically change the look of the game. But why? Nothing was broken. In fact I would have considered their graphical approach/style to their games to be one of the best you will find in any similar wargame series. When I believe I heard that the graphical team that did the previous games didn't do CW2, I was not surprised.

The problem with the CW2 graphics is two fold. One is that there simply is no consistent graphical feel to the game, like there was no solid artistic direction or style that was being adhered to except "make it different to the other games, use lots of drop shadow effects, background shading perhpas". As a result, it looks like different parts of the games graphics was randomly given to several amateurish graphics guys, all working in isolation from each other with no real direction or style or functional requirement being adhered to, and the result is a terrible mish-mash of colours, styles and graphics that just make you realize juts how awesome the previous games were.

Secondly, the games graphics fail dismally in so many ways as far as basic functionality. Apart from "looking good", graphics also have a functional role to help the player understand and play the game. The worst offender in CW2 is probably one of the most important graphical aspects of the game: the map itself! The basic fundamental graphical requirements to enable the player to readily play CW2/the AGE engine seemed to not have been considered when creating the map.

One of (if not the most) important aspects of this game (and any other game using the AGE engine) is that the map is actually subdivided up in to discrete areas or regions. The game is all about units occupying, moving through, controlling and fighting over these regions. Players are constantly making plans and decision all based on the location and relationship of these areas to each other. Not begin able to see them is like trying to play chess on a chessboard that has no squares. It is as basic and as simple as that. You would think that allowing the player to readily distinguish these regions by looking on the map would figure rather highly on the "design a map for this game" brief. Well for all the previous games, it seemed it did. Here I have posted comparative map screenshots from AJE and WiA and AACW (both of which is from a comparative region east of Pittsburgh) all taken at level 4 zoom out. Just by looking at the map you can see clearly distinguish the borders around each region, as well as other things like roads, railroads and rivers.

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Now lets look at the equivalent CW2 map view. The region borders (even the roads) are so faint and inconsistent even at the most zoomed in levels compared to the AGE engine releases.

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Without even considering if the map looks good to you or not; functionally, can you easily tell where the region borders are so you can do all your planning etc? It is crazy that functionality as fundamentally basic and simple as this seems to not have figured in the final release. I take yo back to my chess without seeing the chessboard analogy. And look at the overall graphical "feel" you get from these screenshots. It is hard to believe that after 9 years of development, that CW2 represents "a better way" of doing things. The baby was thrown out with the bath water when AGEOD decided to "revamp" the graphics.

I can not envisage a discussion along these lines having occurred during the development of CW2:

[INDENT]AGEOD: Hey, do you think we can really reduce the visibility of the borders around each region when we look at the map? Being able to distinguish the borders is not as important to the player than hiding them and making the player think they are playing a game that has no regions.[/INDENT]

[INDENT]ARTIST: Yeah OK. I think players will be more interested in playing on a map that is over saturated with colour, very busy with lost of "realistic" looking colour shading/gradients anyway. Adding region boundaries makes the map look unrealistic and we know players don't like unrealistic!
[/INDENT]

This all seems symptomatic of a game development process that simply got lazy and lost sight of some game design basics that made previous games (a large part being the graphics and graphical representation) so good. So much so, that you would be forgiven for thinking that BoA, AJE and AACW were created after lessons learnt from CW2.

If CW2 was released with essentially the same graphics as AACW I would have been more than happy. I literally didn't even bother playing the game (bought it 18 months ago!) until I recently gave up waiting for a full(er) UI mod to come out and decided to start modding what I can of the game graphics/UI in an effort to bring it back to the level of the other games. I will release them shortly. If I could I would redo the entire map but with around 6,800 graphics files related to displaying all the maps regions (includes winter tiles) I don't think that is going to happen.

I just hope AGEOD realise how badly CW2 graphically compares and looks to their other games (even their very first Birth of America 9 years ago) both from an atheistic point of view and just from a basic player playability point of view (can we please see the regions?) and never release another game with such poorly considered graphics.

[DrPostman]

I couldn't disagree more. I've never had trouble making out where the regional
borders are and I like having them less obvious. The artwork for the units is very
good. I wouldn't want any of that to change for CW2.

[Rod Smart]

I strongly disagree

Of course, I usually play with terrain, supply, or weather overlays- so the distinction between regions is more obvious.

[Cardinal Ape]

I don't have much of problem seeing the borders. Either way since there is a method to bring up all connecting regions with the shift key it doesn't bother me.

I do like the older maps of BoA2 and others better than the new full of color maps though. Maybe it is just the feel of an old time map that helps me get taken back to that time in history. Though most grand strategy games now days seem to have a 'pretty' map mode that I rarely use. For CW2 I usually play on the weather map mode.

[Stauffenberg]

I understand your critiques and there is some merit in them, but I find these issues far less critical than:

--teeny font for messages lower right. Coupled with translucent background I have to read them over the ocean or use a magnifying glass at times. After most of my life without glasses I'm older now and these things matter.
--The "cold modernist" theme for menus that I think are a big mistake after the rustic cedarwood backdrops in the original among other things (and yes I know about the mod and I use it). An "Antediluvian" motif works. In a future iteration of ACW2 I strongly suggest they go back to their roots and get that rustic feel back in so we don't have to have mods.

Apart from that I would hasten to add that these criticisms are subjective and in no way an indictment of the new version. There are too many positive elements refined and introduced, and in particular I love the original work by the Italian illustrator, the battle options (playing Athena at least), card options, extended map, Fort Pillow, correction of Mobile Al capital to Montgomery, Staunton the important town and supply center for the Shenandoah, half size supply trains, WV accurately done at the outset, and many other elements).

I think people need to realize that the ACW was sort of the Everest of game design for many years for many reasons: above all, how on earth do you realistically model the massive impact of commanders, the seniority system, and politics, without driving players nuts? Some valiant attempts were made, but this is the first to really incorporate everything that an ACW grognard could wish for. Is it perfect? No, but the rest are at various base camps down the mountainside. This one made it to the summit.

[Straight Arrow]

This one made it to the summit.

Amen!

[Pocus]

We are reading you and will ponder what you say. If borders are not visible enough, this is definitively not because an attempt of having people thinking the game is regions-less.
There was only one artist for everything in CW2 when it comes to interface and the map. And then another for units and generals. They are both professional and motivated, they truly want to make a good game as us. Both also are history fans and have produced stuff for boardgames or historical websites. They are not just people interested in a paycheck.

As for the modernist interface of CW2, we are improving on that. See EAW. Napoleonic project will also have period interface.

[FightingBuckeye]

The only time I've really had problems differentiating regions is in some of the overlays and also for some RGD cards.

[CSARebel]

I tend to agree with the OP. BoR had an amazing map. I am unsure why but that map transports me to the time of Rome.

The worst part of ACW2 for me...and it is minor but hard to deal with...is the font in the messages, or more precisely the background color. The black font on the grey background is awful. I find it very difficult to read. I have pretty good eyes so I can't imagine it is just me.

The font color delayed my purchase of the game from the release date until just recently. I wish there was an easy way to change the color.

BTW...I am enjoying the game.

[Bullman]

I tend to agree with the OP. BoR had an amazing map. I am unsure why but that map transports me to the time of Rome.

The worst part of ACW2 for me...and it is minor but hard to deal with...is the font in the messages, or more precisely the background color. The black font on the grey background is awful. I find it very difficult to read. I have pretty good eyes so I can't imagine it is just me.

The font color delayed my purchase of the game from the release date until just recently. I wish there was an easy way to change the color.

BTW...I am enjoying the game.

Thanks for sharing you views on this. Actually it was these awful metallic grey dialog backgrounds that I immediately reacted bad to as well. Not only does it make the text hard to read but it literally makes my eyes sore trying to read it. It was these bad text backgrounds that made me just shelve the game for the last 18 months since buying the game hoping a complete interface mod would be released.

As it turns out I ended up completing the modding started by fred zepplin's in his Ledger UI Mod myself to replace all those awful grey shaded backgrounds with something that not only makes reading so much easier, but is more in line with the theme of the game and other AGEOD releases.

Here are some previews:

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PS: Seems in the last hr or since someone has produced the same thing

[Cardinal Ape]

Yup. This thread prompted me get off my arse and share what I had been using myself for a while. Turns out I should of just been lazy and kept playing the game.

I don't think I did the battle planner though. I imagine you might have covered a few things I missed as well. Good stuff.

[Bullman]

Yup. This thread prompted me get off my arse and share what I had been using myself for a while. Turns out I should of just been lazy and kept playing the game.

I don't think I did the battle planner though. I imagine you might have covered a few things I missed as well. Good stuff.

Haha, well I actually finished all the backgrounds about 10 days ago. I was contemplating perhaps waiting to do more modding of the interface (a few buttons, other UI images) before I release. Would have been happy to share what I had if I was PMed.

Anyway, good to know others can now enjoy the game without those bloody vision impairing backgrounds.

[Bullman]

We are reading you and will ponder what you say. If borders are not visible enough, this is definitively not because an attempt of having people thinking the game is regions-less.
There was only one artist for everything in CW2 when it comes to interface and the map. And then another for units and generals. They are both professional and motivated, they truly want to make a good game as us. Both also are history fans and have produced stuff for boardgames or historical websites. They are not just people interested in a paycheck.

As for the modernist interface of CW2, we are improving on that. See EAW. Napoleonic project will also have period interface.

Hi Philippe,

I appreciate you posting here. I understand that it might be difficult to read the comments I have to make about the games graphics. Keep in mind that I have been and continue to be a rather strong advocate and supporter of your products. You just need to read what I had to say about AGEOD in my first ever post here almost 8 years ago. However the same kind of motivation to post what I did back then is similar to the reasons I started this thread. I am a supporter of progressive and innovative wargame developers that break the mold and deliver games above and beyond the level of quality typically expected to come from your traditional wargame developers (no need to mention them here) and will do what I can to encourage that.