Grant's Cross Country (Down Country?) Teleport!!!

[Prussia]

Grant and a reasonable sized Corps show up and take Paducah; then proceeds to take Fort Henry but leaves Fort Donelson alone. Next turn he is nowhere to be found. The following turn he shows up in Houston?!?!!? How did that happen.

That turn I took St. Louis and Cairo- for the battle of Cairo I had a Fleet with 3 Ironclads and other sundry Gunboats and River Transports assisting, and while suffering many losses of Gunboats I was able to destroy most of the Union vessels in the area and captured most of the balance- 3 River Transport; 4 Transport Ships, and 5 Merchant Ships, while a handful escaped up the river towards St. Louis- sent one Ironclad after them but was unable to catch up to them. Essentially the Union transport in that area was decimated. Nothing went down river past Pillow, Island #10, Memphis, Vicksburg and New Orleans (which was now a Redoubt with Coastal Artillery) and 2 fleets stationed in the area- one Ironclad stationed in Lower Mississippi River; and 2 stationed in the Mississippi Delta. Nothing for the past several turns has made their way down the Atlantic Seaboard, nor along the Gulf Coast. Nor any notifications of units slipping past any locations. So how on earth did Grant move from the Paducah/Fort Henry area to the Houston region in 30 days? While there is no longer any Coastal Artillery remaining in Fort James from earlier incursions it is still garrisoned, and I should have been notified of anything passing into Galveston Bay- and I do have Tatnall with the CSS Mississippi in port reprovisioning at Galveston, along with 2 Divisions in Galveston (see pics).

There is no river or rail connection from Paducah/Fort Henry to the Houston region; full Union MC is only in Hampstead and Navasota (I still control the city in Navsota) with 19 percent Union MC in Albany; and supply is only in Houston and Navasota (its snowing there now), but in theory supply could be coming up the Brazos, but he has no ships in the region.

Thus within 15-30 (max 45 days... not 100 percent certain of turns transpired, but definitely max of 3, and most likely just 2 turns) days:

- How did he get there; and he did bring some troops with him, so how did they get there- for the total displayed power went up by about 300 for the stack in Houston;
- How is he receiving supply;
- How is he/them not slowly vaporizing due to being isolated;
- Why don't I understand what happened.

[ATTACH]33235[/ATTACH][ATTACH]33236[/ATTACH][ATTACH]33237[/ATTACH][ATTACH]33238[/ATTACH]

[Prussia]

This pic shows the 2 Divisions in Galveston

[ATTACH]33239[/ATTACH]

[Captain_Orso]

I couldn't even guess, but I could look at the Saves.

[Prussia]

Captain Orso- thank you.

Just to be clear, so I provide you the proper information- the displayed .hst and .ord would be the current turns info; and then you would need backup 1 and 2 I imagine. Looking through the saves: in backup 2 Grant's Corps is in Alexander Ill. then apparently moving to Montgomery Tn. (not 100% certain that I'm reading anything properly) on an intercept mission, though he never made it there (I still control Clarksville)~ looks like Fort Henry sufficed for his purposes.

In Backup 1 he apparently is in Hampstead Texas on a resupply mission. Just noticed Rosencran's is down there too. Thought he was in the Illinois-Kentucky area last I recall.

So it does indeed look like in a span of 15 days he moved from Illinois/Hickman Ky. to Hampstead Texas, and bringing his buddy Rosencrans along for the 1862 Texas Tour. If this is indeed the case, I would posit that we have a glitch or bug present.

In summary: I need to post the ord and hst for current turn; back up 1 and back up 2?

Please advise. And thanks in advance for all your help.

[ATTACH]33244[/ATTACH]

[Captain_Orso]

To be on the safe side I would have to have all the files from the turn where Grant is in Alexander IL up until he has arrived in Texas (no replay files please).

[Prussia]

Captain Orso:

So for current turn I need to provide the hst and ord files (no union ord as the turn has not been completed); and I don't even know what a replay file looks like/is.

And for the preceeding turns I would need to provide the following?

[ATTACH]33245[/ATTACH]

[Captain_Orso]

Let's make this simple. Archive the '1861 April Campaign2' folder with whatever archiving program you are using--7-Zip, WinZip, or whatever. RAR format is better than Zip format, because the compression ration is better.

If there are no files named 'Replay_CSA.rpl' or 'Replay_CSA.rpl' in the archive, all the better. If there are, delete these from the archive before uploading. Most archiving programs will allow for this.

If the archive is now =< 4.77 MB, fine; upload this file.

If not, if you know how many turns back Grant was in Alexander IL, that is how many 'BackupX' folders should be included in the archive. All older 'BackupX' folders --those with a higher digit-- should be deleted from the archive.

If the archive is now =< 4.77 MB, fine; upload this file.

If not, you will have to see how many 'BackupX' folders can remain in the archive before it has been reduced to 4.77 MB. The rest of the necessary 'BackupX' folders you should archive together or singly, whatever it takes to not exceed the 4.77 MB sized. Upload this/these arhcive(s) too.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

[Rod Smart]

[Prussia]

Captain Orso:

Here are the files.

The first attachment is the current turn:

[ATTACH]33258[/ATTACH]

The second is Grant in Hampstead:

[ATTACH]33259[/ATTACH]

The third attachment is Grant still in Illinois/Kentucky:

[ATTACH]33260[/ATTACH]

Thanks for your assistance.

[Captain_Orso]

The turn contained in Backup2 is Early November '62. In this turn Grant is already in Hampton, TX (Houston).

[Prussia]

I'll check it again.

Possibly having a 'Duh' moment.

[Prussia]

You sure you were looking at backup 2?

I just looked at it, and found these in .hst file:

U.S. Grant' Corps
NULL
577|578|579|
NULL
1010142-U.S. Grant' Command Power:514 Health:99% Alexander, IL>Montgomery, TN Mission:Intercept (Master) 1st GA 'Joe Brown's Pets' Fitness:76% Need:949 Threat:703 GoalValue: 7904
1010142|-1|6|52|579|76|200|2708|2708|1000002|1010428|DEPREC|-1|0|-1|-1|-1|PH0|PH1|PH2|PH3|PH4|PH5|PH6|PH7|PH8|PH9&
NULL
#Kind#0#Kind#
NULL
NULL

Only thing in Hampstead in this .hst file are McCooks Corps and a few militia.

[Prussia]

Not all that familiar with what I'm seeing, and/or what something might mean; nonetheless, in the USA.ord from Backup2 file I do find Grant in Hampstead:

U.S. Grant' Command
NULL
NULL
1|12|
1009442-U.S. Grant' Command Power:479 Health:98% Hampstead, TX>Hampstead, TX Mission:Resupply Fitness:100% Need:1095 Threat:826 GoalValue: 100000
1009442|-1|3|500|1308|100|200|2709|2711|-1|-1|DEPREC|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|PH0|PH1|PH2|PH3|PH4|PH5|PH6|PH7|PH8|PH9&
NULL
#Kind#0#Kind#
NULL
NULL

I'll find the appropriate file for you shortly.

Thanks again.

[Captain_Orso]

I'm not trying to read the .ord or .hst files with a text-editor; I'm letting the game engine interpret the files.

I've renamed the scenario saves and broken down the turns so that each turn is its own scenario save. I've attached them so that you can see exactly what I was looking at.

[Prussia]

This should be the correct one- no evidence of Grant in Texas according to the data within the files.

[ATTACH]33264[/ATTACH]

[Captain_Orso]

That's the one.

On turn 38 Grant is leading a corps in the Army of the West under Halleck. Grant's Corps is in Alexander IL (Cairo) plotted to use rail movement to Charleston MO and then on to Clark TN. When I load the next turn I find Grant on the map in Hampton TX (Houston) and he is not a corps commander in the AoW anymore.

Just searching for Grant in the .hst file for turn 39 I find him in Hickman TN, which would make sense if that is as far as he got on his move. I cannot find a reference to him being in anywhere else. Why he appears on the map in Houston I have no idea what so ever.

Maybe Pocus can shed some light on this.

[Pocus]

I don't get the problem on my side, but this vaguely remind me of a rare loophole in hosting, where it is possible that if you try intercepting something, and that something is somehow removed (like it is merged into another unit) while its identifier is used in the same turn by the game (for a new unit), then you might chase a ghost, or at least a real but very distant, unrelated unit.

This is very rare, it might happens once every 3 month for a single player in the whole community. I did not find a good work around and as my time is limited, I honestly don't know when I can get into this problem again.

[Captain_Orso]

Do you mean that when you load the turn39 files Grant is in Henry or Hickman TN and not in Houston?.....





I don't think this has anything to do with chasing the wrong stack. I though of that already. In the orders file Grant's stack is chasing the stack with 1st GA 'Brown's Pets' or something like that. It's the top unit in the stack in Clarcksville TN/KY. Looking at the stack in turn39 and it hadn't moved an inch.

Besides, it's only Grant that went through the Twilight Zone door and landed in Houston. Lyon, Sheridan's Division and the second division are still stacked together right where they were plotted to move in turn 38.


One thing I did not though. When I loaded turn39 and was going through the _T039.hst file with a text editor, I noted that all the stacks in Houston had had their Detachment numbers changed. In-Game I had something like 31. Detachment, 32. Detachment, etc. and in the file they were 12. Detachment, 13. Detachment, etc.

[marquo]

I have noticed that sometimes a stack will move beyond the region I ordered to it to move after winning a battle; I presume this is because it is chasing the losing stack? And often this pursuing stack gets butchered as it crashes unintentionally into a well defended region....can stacks "autoassign" themselves to pursue defeated foes?

Thanks

[Captain_Orso]

Your stack will attempt to do what you ordered it to do.

If you've targeted an enemy stack when issuing movement orders, your stack will do its best to reach that enemy stack and attack it, in general.

If the enemy stack retreats out of the region, your stack will follow it --not pursue-- and attempt to go to battle with it again. This will occur so long as your stack has enough cohesion, including over several turns, but generally after the two stacks have fought enough one will sit down and catch its breath while the other crawls away. This can happen after the first battle or after the third; it all depends.

[Prussia]

Pocus:

Hickman Kentucky to Houston Texas is roughly 698-777 miles apart- not that great a distance in todays world of superhighways, but back in 1862? That's an animal of an entirely different color- and to have a leader traverse that distance within 15 days while plausible it was not done within game parameters- e.g. rail, road/track/undeveloped tracts, river or seaborne or combinations of all or some of the available transport conduits, and given the nature of the terrain and locales involved and weather renders this nigh onto impossible. And to have a Corps accompany this leader over the same distance, within the same time frame is not a minor glitch, it is a major bug. I was able to spot this particular event this time; but how many have I or did I miss? To state that this is an isolated occurence is not valid as there is no empirical evidence, as of yet, to support this as being isolated- the array of units involved is too large to succinctly allow comprehensive tracking. I was fortunate in that the named leader was a significant historical figure of note, so it was easy to spot; but for some other Union leader to have done the same thing I very well could have missed as there would have been no mnemonic trigger involved.

Having the French fleet show up in Hampton Roads/York River may be WAD or just a minor glitch (I would consider this a minor glitch and of no import):

[ATTACH]33276[/ATTACH]

This is not a minor glitch. There is a problem here and it should be addressed. I have purchased Alea Jacta Est; RUS; TEAW; and CWII and for a major bug to be so cavalierly dimissed leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

All said with the best of intents.

[DrPostman]

I would call it a rare glitch. I've never seen that happen in any of my games.

[Captain_Orso]

Pocus:

Hickman Kentucky to Houston Texas is roughly 698-777 miles apart- not that great a distance in todays world of superhighways, but back in 1862? That's an animal of an entirely different color- and to have a leader traverse that distance within 15 days while plausible it was not done within game parameters- e.g. rail, road/track/undeveloped tracts, river or seaborne or combinations of all or some of the available transport conduits, and given the nature of the terrain and locales involved and weather renders this nigh onto impossible. And to have a Corps accompany this leader over the same distance, within the same time frame is not a minor glitch, it is a major bug. I was able to spot this particular event this time; but how many have I or did I miss? To state that this is an isolated occurence is not valid as there is no empirical evidence, as of yet, to support this as being isolated- the array of units involved is too large to succinctly allow comprehensive tracking. I was fortunate in that the named leader was a significant historical figure of note, so it was easy to spot; but for some other Union leader to have done the same thing I very well could have missed as there would have been no mnemonic trigger involved.

Having the French fleet show up in Hampton Roads/York River may be WAD or just a minor glitch (I would consider this a minor glitch and of no import):

[ATTACH]33276[/ATTACH]

This is not a minor glitch. There is a problem here and it should be addressed. I have purchased Alea Jacta Est; RUS; TEAW; and CWII and for a major bug to be so cavalierly dimissed leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

All said with the best of intents.

Only Grant was 'teleported' to Houston, not his corps.

In my mind the greatest issue is that if I open and read the turn 39 .hst file it quite clearly has Grant in his corps stack in Henry TN. Pocus stated that when he loads the scenario, he finds Grant to be where he is supposed to be. When you and I open the scenario, we find him in Houston every time. That is what disturbs me.

[Prussia]

Captain Orso-

Look closely and you'll see Rosencrans down there too with units amounting to 281 (287 current value) combat power, which is about the difference between a 100x cp stack and its current value of 1375 (appears to be Blender's Force with Rosecrans)... Rosencran was up north originally. So that would explain the increase in size of the stack, but just compounds the question of how did they all get there.

[Pocus]

One of the biggest issue, if not the biggest also was that I did not got the problem, and fixing something not reproducible on my side is clearly super difficult. I'll run again the turn. Perhaps I was 'lucky'.

[Captain_Orso]

I loaded the scenario with my new v1.05 installation on turn 39, first as the CS and then the Union. The CS shows Grant in Henry TN and the Union shows him in Houston. Of course as the CS I can only look at the stack, but as the Union I can 'touch' the counter.

[Captain_Orso]

I think I may have found something.

Management Summery
Something is causing the Union Detachments to be renamed (renumbered) and possibly screwing up and shifting leaders around for what ever reason.

--

Loading turn 39 as the CS and looking at Henry TN and Hampton TX (Houston) I'm looking at the tool-tips.

CS view Henry TN


CS view Hampton TX (Houston)


US view Henry TN


CS view Hampton TX (Houston)



Note that when the CS is loaded and is looking at the Union forces in Houston they see 5 stacks:
Alexander McCook
8th New Hapshire Mil.
14. Union Detachment with 4 units
11. Union Detachment with 3 units
15. Union Detachment with 5 units

When the US side is loaded the tool-tip shows 6 stacks now, because not only is Grant suddenly in Houston, but Rosecrans too, who the previous turn was in Springfield IL moving to Vincennes IN by rail. So not just Grant was teleported.

But what also is very odd, the US Detachment names have changed. Grant landed in the 15. Detachment stack with 5 units leaving McCook's stack and the other 3 stacks with 1, 4 and 3 units unchanged: 8th New Hampshire Mil., and the 14. and 11. Union Detachments which are now they are named 34. and 35. Union Detachments.

Rosecrans landed in his own stack.

Also very strange in turn 38, Rosecrans with 2 units (Kansas Mounted Volunteers and 40. Artillery 10 lb p. (IA)) are plotted to intercept a stack in the Vincennes region. In Vincennes are 2 stacks, Blenker's division and Ellet's Bde., which is using Rail movement to Columbus IN and not plotted to intercept.

In turn 39 I find the Kansas Mounted Volunteers and 40. Artillery 10 lb p. (IA) integrated in Blecker's division and that's not possible by the rules.