I have been researching this game a little with interest. I tried the original title in demo for AGEOD's Civil War and it was not really to my tastes. Though giving this a second look, how do you players feel about it? After giving some time and a chance to actually learn how to use the interface...
How does it compare with say GG's Civil War? Also is the community of PBEM players very active still? Or have they all lost interest and vacated to TEAW? This game seems extremely complex and that say something like the Full Campaign could be a bit more than some could bite off? Is that true. Fill me in with any and all info, positive and negative. Please I am on the fence sorta here. Thank you very much
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BattleVonWar
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Hi BattleVonWar and welcome to the forum. Others will give you their take, this is mine. I searched for a great strategic level Civil War game and bought all three then on the market, including GG's. There is one game which actually simulates the American Civil War with a great deal of accuracy. It is AGEODs CW2. It is complex and takes time to learn. The good deal for you, the pbem community is very active with regard to this game and the forum has lots of members who love to share their insights.
GG's Civil War has an interesting approach to the Civil War. It is well done, but it does not have the variety of options nor the precision of command relationships found in CW2.
You will not learn this game in one play. Anyone new to AGEOD games has to have patience, but the reward is really high. As an experienced AGEOD player, it would take me up to an hour and a half to play a single turn when I was first leaning. Now that number is greatly reduced, but totally worth it.
Final comment, I have said in other threads of this forum and others, this is the American Civil War game I have search for since I abandoned board games and turned to computer game. Totally worth getting off the fence.
GG's Civil War has an interesting approach to the Civil War. It is well done, but it does not have the variety of options nor the precision of command relationships found in CW2.
You will not learn this game in one play. Anyone new to AGEOD games has to have patience, but the reward is really high. As an experienced AGEOD player, it would take me up to an hour and a half to play a single turn when I was first leaning. Now that number is greatly reduced, but totally worth it.
Final comment, I have said in other threads of this forum and others, this is the American Civil War game I have search for since I abandoned board games and turned to computer game. Totally worth getting off the fence.
In a similar situation as you and Durk- bought Gary Grigsby's War between the States: essentially a blind buy since I've been playing his sims since Apple II days. Getting back into strategic games after a hiatus of about 7 years, starting off with GG's War in the East - fantastic game, and thought WbtS would be of the same caliber. While interesting, there was essentially no production, which left me flat.
So I then bought Forge of Freedom (all during Matrix Games Xmas sale), which had the production that I was interested in- but the interface; the map, etc., all left me longing. Ageod's CW2 map really intrigued me, so I bought my 3rd Civil War game and have not looked back (glad I didn't buy the original Ageod offering). While CW2 does not quite offer the level of production that FoF offers it is sufficient and engaging with a myriad of considerations especially when you factor in replacements (I use the manual option). Command and Control factors are offered in extreme depth (more so than WbtS); the UI is very well done (though a tad small given that I'm on a 27" screen which is about the only frustrating part of CW2 for me). The map is beautiful and very well done.
The plethora of troop offerings; their upgradeability; Leadership rankings and upgrades; partisans, Mescalaros, Cotton Clads, Indians, Mortar Boats, mines, submarines, different types of Ironclads, and a ton more; along with naming conventions (additional names for units are easily added); profound weather, supply and ammo considerations, mixed in with a host of other things that I've overlooked equate to an extraordinary game. Mix that in with the wonderful guidance, help, tips and rule's explanations provided by many here on the forums (Durk, Grey Fox, Captain Orso, et al- Thank you very much) you will find 'the' preeminent simulation of the War between the States in CW2.
So I then bought Forge of Freedom (all during Matrix Games Xmas sale), which had the production that I was interested in- but the interface; the map, etc., all left me longing. Ageod's CW2 map really intrigued me, so I bought my 3rd Civil War game and have not looked back (glad I didn't buy the original Ageod offering). While CW2 does not quite offer the level of production that FoF offers it is sufficient and engaging with a myriad of considerations especially when you factor in replacements (I use the manual option). Command and Control factors are offered in extreme depth (more so than WbtS); the UI is very well done (though a tad small given that I'm on a 27" screen which is about the only frustrating part of CW2 for me). The map is beautiful and very well done.
The plethora of troop offerings; their upgradeability; Leadership rankings and upgrades; partisans, Mescalaros, Cotton Clads, Indians, Mortar Boats, mines, submarines, different types of Ironclads, and a ton more; along with naming conventions (additional names for units are easily added); profound weather, supply and ammo considerations, mixed in with a host of other things that I've overlooked equate to an extraordinary game. Mix that in with the wonderful guidance, help, tips and rule's explanations provided by many here on the forums (Durk, Grey Fox, Captain Orso, et al- Thank you very much) you will find 'the' preeminent simulation of the War between the States in CW2.
Another facet to consider: while Gary Grigsby's War in the East is currently in v1.08beta2 with beta 3 on the way (with massive enhancements/improvements- truly extraordinary support) there is no further or ongoing support for WbtS, and hasn't been for quite some time (same can be said for Forge of Freedom, which definitely could use some more work). As a comparison- CW2 is now in v1.04RC9 which is very stable, and polished product- definitely "truly extraordinary support" can be applied to CW2 as well. Definitely a facet that should be included in your considerations of which to choose.
All the best.
All the best.
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BattleVonWar
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Durk and Prussia, I'm appreciative for the lowdown. Very good descriptions, thorough. I really think I will have to dig in and try this particular title. I am usually not pushed in this direction but there is nothing on the table currently that simulates The Civil War with such detail and support. Plus a fan club that seems pretty strong. I am still going through some youtubes, watching the UI. It's different and I think will take some adapting to. Seems we have all crossed paths through Matrix/Slitherine/Paradox..probably at some point.. I look forward to seeing you guys on the battlefield if I can Master this title : )
P.S. War Between The States had so much potential, it was sad to see it dumped.
P.S. War Between The States had so much potential, it was sad to see it dumped.
Many years ago Frank Hunter did a strategic level game of the American Civil War at a much higher level than Forge of Freedom, War Between the States and AACW and CW2. It is a strategic level which I really liked. I love a simple yet strategically complex game, CW2 has a nice balance of detail and simplicity once you understand the system. I hope the YouTube videos you are watching are the ones CharlesonMission has compiled https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0elpXyl8LDXJxQTNGdvk_zwB_ZYGv-0A These are excellent.
Once you get a sense of the game, pm one of the forum members to get engaged in pbem.
Once you get a sense of the game, pm one of the forum members to get engaged in pbem.
Yes Frank Hunter's Civil War (can't remember the name; have it around somewhere) was a labor of love way back when. Did some beta-testing to a minor degree for him Iirc; and traded some obscure game for a direct copy of that game from Frank himself. While definitely a very high order strategic level you did have some control all the way down to the types of rifles that you equipped your Bridades with. Unfortunately it was a bug fest; and insufficient development (read as $) thwarted its development. Came out in 1993, with the 3rd iteration in 1996, and the last update in 2003. Incredible potential; lots of flavor and nuance, and a host of other factors, which lo and behold one finds in toto in CW2 albeit with the added benefit of a 'realized' incredible potential.
Looked it up: American Civil War: From Sumter To Appomattox was the latter version; Road from Sumter to Appomattox being the original release. It's all freeware now- some of it directly available on Matrix's website.
Looked it up: American Civil War: From Sumter To Appomattox was the latter version; Road from Sumter to Appomattox being the original release. It's all freeware now- some of it directly available on Matrix's website.
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BattleVonWar
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Yes, I am studying Charles' Youtubes. Wonderfully insightful to the system, understanding the complexity of this game when you have never used an AGEOD product will take a bit of time. Plus I prefer to learn on hands and watching then studying the manual.
At first I was a bit frustrated. This is not an interface I am use to but after a week or so I am beginning to master the basics. There has been little in releases of the American Civil War. Really it's been a dead market. Paradox made a modification from Victoria II which I really didn't love. It was too abstract(seeing it's a piece of the world not a true Civil War Game). I had startd with a game called North and Soul I think from SSI back '89
The Civil War is an amazing conflict to have been missed, it's a good thing AGEOD took the time to add so much detail to the game. Really makes GG's Civil War look pale in comparison. Now I just have to understand the mechanics enough to be proficient and try this PBEM. I never thought I would give this UI a chance. It has an addictive quality!
At first I was a bit frustrated. This is not an interface I am use to but after a week or so I am beginning to master the basics. There has been little in releases of the American Civil War. Really it's been a dead market. Paradox made a modification from Victoria II which I really didn't love. It was too abstract(seeing it's a piece of the world not a true Civil War Game). I had startd with a game called North and Soul I think from SSI back '89
The Civil War is an amazing conflict to have been missed, it's a good thing AGEOD took the time to add so much detail to the game. Really makes GG's Civil War look pale in comparison. Now I just have to understand the mechanics enough to be proficient and try this PBEM. I never thought I would give this UI a chance. It has an addictive quality!
I think GGWBTS is a brilliant game, an underrated game, but it is on a completely different scale and complexity level than CWII. It shares many features with Gary Grisby's World at War, another excellent game of what might be called the beer and pretzels variety. I think it depends on the complexity someone wants. For someone who wants a good but simpler game, WBTS is a great choice. It would be nice to see it available for IPad. But, as pointed out, support in the form of patches apparently ended some time ago. And CWII has so much more to offer in the way of detail.
DrPostman wrote:I see CWII as the computerized version of Victory Games Civil War, a brilliantly
designed board game.
+1
DrPostman wrote:I see CWII as the computerized version of Victory Games Civil War, a brilliantly
designed board game.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]33181[/ATTACH]
Indeed, one of my favorite BG and a great source of inspiration
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DrPostman
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PhilThib wrote:Indeed, one of my favorite BG and a great source of inspiration
In 87 the parent company, Avalon Hill, attempted to create a computer
version. The graphics were OK for the time, but the game was buggy
as hell. Sometimes the strength points of armies would change to a
dozen times bigger or smaller. Worst $20 I ever spent. Here's what
the Washington DC area looked like:
[ATTACH]33189[/ATTACH]
Can ya see why I do not miss those early days of computers? I
love what we have now and look forward to the future of gaming.
CW2 is like comparing heaven and hell when put up against that
mess
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