Explain this
I'm defending Chattanooga PGT is b/r posture say defend all the way but grant just walks in cross the river like Moses and kick me outs with out caring about frontage what the f****
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Someone posted the code for "Hold at all cost" and it still allows withdrawal pretty easily. So Pierre chose to run away and fight another day. I prefer to put my guys inside the city/structure and that way they usually stay put.
Nothing that a wall, a blindfold and a few riflemen can't fix.
Nothing that a wall, a blindfold and a few riflemen can't fix.
I'm the 51st shade of gray. Eat, pray, Charge!
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Captain_Orso
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Firstly, you're screenshot impaired.... 
But more importantly, Grant came waltzing in with over 5-1 odds and he has a hell-of-a-good offensive rating. You did hit him coming across the Tennessee, but you can only hit so many targets in one round of battle. The rest just keep coming as long as the entire stack hasn't broken. Once he's across, he has nearly 450 cannons vs your nearly 80. You inflicted 79 hits vs his 29. If Beauregard was on Hold-At-All-Cost it's probably the first time I've seen a stack that size retreat on that, but then again you could consider yourself to be lucky. At those odds it would be easy to see Beauregard's entire force either killed or captured and Grant still taking Chattanooga.
You may have lost Chattanooga, but at least your army is still in good condition and will live on to fight again another day.
At not more than 3-1 odds I would have been miffed, but under these circumstances I don't know what else you could expect.
But more importantly, Grant came waltzing in with over 5-1 odds and he has a hell-of-a-good offensive rating. You did hit him coming across the Tennessee, but you can only hit so many targets in one round of battle. The rest just keep coming as long as the entire stack hasn't broken. Once he's across, he has nearly 450 cannons vs your nearly 80. You inflicted 79 hits vs his 29. If Beauregard was on Hold-At-All-Cost it's probably the first time I've seen a stack that size retreat on that, but then again you could consider yourself to be lucky. At those odds it would be easy to see Beauregard's entire force either killed or captured and Grant still taking Chattanooga.
You may have lost Chattanooga, but at least your army is still in good condition and will live on to fight again another day.
At not more than 3-1 odds I would have been miffed, but under these circumstances I don't know what else you could expect.
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Aditia Holdem
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Thte end result might not have been unexpected, I too would expect more casualties here.
No matter what stats Grant has, they still have to cross the river vs a well entrenched enemy with 80 guns pointed at them.
I have mentioned this several times in the past. I think the nr of casualties in these higher entrenchement situations is to low, definitely
if faced with a certain amount of artillery and having to cross a river.
No matter what stats Grant has, they still have to cross the river vs a well entrenched enemy with 80 guns pointed at them.
I have mentioned this several times in the past. I think the nr of casualties in these higher entrenchement situations is to low, definitely
if faced with a certain amount of artillery and having to cross a river.
Actually, the fact is that even Grant only gets to attack with at most 16 line elements and 8 artillery elements in a mountain region. You can check this yourself by clicking on a large stack of troops, hitting the "7" key to bring up the terrain overlay and then moving the cursor over Chattanooga to see the terrain menu. If Havi still has the battlelog, he probably just had some bad luck on a withdrawal roll.
BTW, I've driven through the steep hills of Chattanooga many times, but I must have missed all of the 'mountains'!
BTW, I've driven through the steep hills of Chattanooga many times, but I must have missed all of the 'mountains'!
I'm the 51st shade of gray. Eat, pray, Charge!
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Orphan_kentuckian
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ArmChairGeneral
- AGEod Grognard
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Havi,
It looks like several artillery engaged besides just the Jones Artillery, since your divisions both show the artillery icon which implies that they had guns that were firing (although not necessarily, I think it just means they had an extra % chance to hit because of your fifth level of entrenchment). Artillery frontage is filled from the pool of all available artillery, no matter their location, and basically at random. I am guessing that your artillery frontage was filled, but that by chance only one of the stack artillery got picked while the rest of the frontage was filled with divisional artillery. Without the battle log, though, it is impossible to tell exactly how many did participate. Since we can't see the whole division (I wish this would get fixed, it is one of my primary complaints with the battle log) it is hard to tell just from the graphical battle report how many you had in the divisions. Kind of an unlucky result, since your divisions probably had some 6lbers in them, whereas things might have gone slightly better for you if the bigger stack artillery had been chosen instead.
I don't think 100% of his force got to participate. It looks like the 11th and 22nd Divisions didn't do much in the battle. My guess is that a good portion of the 12th and 13th Divs were chosen for the first round or two, but the damaged units cycled out and were replaced in the frontage by unused elements from those and the other divisions. That is one advantage of numbers even in cases of limited frontage: even though the frontage on any one round is limited, there are fresh troops that can come in during later rounds to take the place of the ones that have been damaged and drop out of the frontage. If 100% of his force was firing at you on every round you would have taken a lot more damage.
I think PGT did a bang up job. He inflicted two and a half times as many hits as he received, the equivalent of three and a half full elements. Had he stuck around any longer the battle would eventually have started to swing the other way: he didn't have fresh troops to rotate into the frontage, and as the hits pile up effectiveness begins to degrade (because eventually somebody will fail a discipline check and either be shaken or routed, like the Chatanooga Garrison did). If you had not had hold at all costs he would probably have retreated after the first round in the face of those kind of overwhelming numbers. Looks like he instead held the field long enough to make the enemy pay but wisely decided to get out of Dodge before he could be overwhelmed, which I think is a pretty good result in the circumstances. IIRC B/R means he won't start making retreat checks until the third round, so I think he stayed an extra round (the third round) above what was required by his orders. Other than putting him in the structure (and he would likely have surrendered in a few turns if you had) there is no way I can think of to force a stack to stick around against those kinds of odds.
Orphan_Kentuckian
It looks like you had at least two corps that participated, since it appears the 22nd Div was in another stack. Did you have a third Corps as well? If so, it is a very good thing that PGT wasn't in the structure (for Havi, that is).
It looks like several artillery engaged besides just the Jones Artillery, since your divisions both show the artillery icon which implies that they had guns that were firing (although not necessarily, I think it just means they had an extra % chance to hit because of your fifth level of entrenchment). Artillery frontage is filled from the pool of all available artillery, no matter their location, and basically at random. I am guessing that your artillery frontage was filled, but that by chance only one of the stack artillery got picked while the rest of the frontage was filled with divisional artillery. Without the battle log, though, it is impossible to tell exactly how many did participate. Since we can't see the whole division (I wish this would get fixed, it is one of my primary complaints with the battle log) it is hard to tell just from the graphical battle report how many you had in the divisions. Kind of an unlucky result, since your divisions probably had some 6lbers in them, whereas things might have gone slightly better for you if the bigger stack artillery had been chosen instead.
I don't think 100% of his force got to participate. It looks like the 11th and 22nd Divisions didn't do much in the battle. My guess is that a good portion of the 12th and 13th Divs were chosen for the first round or two, but the damaged units cycled out and were replaced in the frontage by unused elements from those and the other divisions. That is one advantage of numbers even in cases of limited frontage: even though the frontage on any one round is limited, there are fresh troops that can come in during later rounds to take the place of the ones that have been damaged and drop out of the frontage. If 100% of his force was firing at you on every round you would have taken a lot more damage.
I think PGT did a bang up job. He inflicted two and a half times as many hits as he received, the equivalent of three and a half full elements. Had he stuck around any longer the battle would eventually have started to swing the other way: he didn't have fresh troops to rotate into the frontage, and as the hits pile up effectiveness begins to degrade (because eventually somebody will fail a discipline check and either be shaken or routed, like the Chatanooga Garrison did). If you had not had hold at all costs he would probably have retreated after the first round in the face of those kind of overwhelming numbers. Looks like he instead held the field long enough to make the enemy pay but wisely decided to get out of Dodge before he could be overwhelmed, which I think is a pretty good result in the circumstances. IIRC B/R means he won't start making retreat checks until the third round, so I think he stayed an extra round (the third round) above what was required by his orders. Other than putting him in the structure (and he would likely have surrendered in a few turns if you had) there is no way I can think of to force a stack to stick around against those kinds of odds.
Orphan_Kentuckian
It looks like you had at least two corps that participated, since it appears the 22nd Div was in another stack. Did you have a third Corps as well? If so, it is a very good thing that PGT wasn't in the structure (for Havi, that is).
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Orphan_kentuckian
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ArmChairGeneral wrote:Orphan_Kentuckian
It looks like you had at least two corps that participated, since it appears the 22nd Div was in another stack. Did you have a third Corps as well? If so, it is a very good thing that PGT wasn't in the structure (for Havi, that is).
I actually had 5 corps each with over 20k+, 4 railed to the region opposite, while Thomas' very strong corps crossed the river. Pope (who is in the screeny) was a corps commander, along with a couple other 2stars whose names escape me atm. All told I had around 120k across the river from Chat, but it appears only 3 actually engaged.
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Orphan_kentuckian
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Yea, I felt like needed to risk it though. The weather is still perfect at the moment and I wanted to secure Chat before the winter set in to prepare for the move on Atlanta. (his capital now)
At this point I have two very large field armies eact and west, each well over 120k...with Lyon's west army sitting at about 40k and a pestering seaborn force at around 32k. So I can afford the reinforcement chites for a few turns before I begin anymore main division building and such.
The hits were relatively lower than I expected they would be, a good trade off to have Chat and a solid base to prepare for next spring.
At this point I have two very large field armies eact and west, each well over 120k...with Lyon's west army sitting at about 40k and a pestering seaborn force at around 32k. So I can afford the reinforcement chites for a few turns before I begin anymore main division building and such.
The hits were relatively lower than I expected they would be, a good trade off to have Chat and a solid base to prepare for next spring.
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