Hello!
What do you do with the Union starting 3-Star Generals?
#9 - 2-2-2 McDowell
#3 - 1-1-2 McCellan
#5 - 2-0-1 Fremont
#6 - 2-0-1 Butler
#7 - 2-0-1 Banks
#13- 1-0-1 Halleck
(Stats from memory)
It seems to me that it is better to make Armies for them with low value responsibility or out of the way places rather than take the NM/VP hit for promoting lower ranked Generals as the game progresses.
How do you handle them in regards to creating armies and their role?
Thank you!
Well McDowell is the best of them and starts in army command and that is where he stays. I send Banks to Baltimore to recruit and use McClellan as a trainer. You get stuck with a bunch of locked brigades in D.C. that cannot be formed into Divisions, so I make two army commands from two of the remaining 3*'s and split up these units into their armies for no CP penalty. The remaining 3* gets to add his CP's to the defense of HF which then becomes an army in 1862. I try to save an army command for Rosecrans and (if I can get him promoted) Grant in '62.
I'm the 51st shade of gray. Eat, pray, Charge!
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Captain_Orso
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I had always maintained that the SVTDM Plan was the best, but of late I've actually started using them 
. The reason is their ability to put troops into frontage. You will never be able depend on them to go on an offensive, but in a region with high friendly MC they will aid in defending. And I actually did get Halleck to attack and win one battle and Banks assaulted and took Winchester, so that's not bad 
.
Once you can build corps though, I will always move them out of the way of their corps, because they 'lend' their poor strategic ratings down to their corps and make your 3-1-1 corps commander's into 2-1-1 do-nary-well's
For example I will give Fremont an army and then move him to Springfield, IL or even Tollono so that his area of influence is outside of anywhere that one of his corps might actually be affected.
I'll do the same with McDowell, even though he might add 1 to some corps' offensive or defensive value. I would rather forgo that possibility to have them active more often than with that chance.
Of course you will need them if you want to invade with a corps, but they don't have to actually land to allow corps status, just be in range.
Once better army leaders are found.... ever heard of Minnesota and Vermont? Fremont actually likes California.
Go ahead and ask me about the SVDM Plan
. The reason is their ability to put troops into frontage. You will never be able depend on them to go on an offensive, but in a region with high friendly MC they will aid in defending. And I actually did get Halleck to attack and win one battle and Banks assaulted and took Winchester, so that's not bad .
Once you can build corps though, I will always move them out of the way of their corps, because they 'lend' their poor strategic ratings down to their corps and make your 3-1-1 corps commander's into 2-1-1 do-nary-well's
For example I will give Fremont an army and then move him to Springfield, IL or even Tollono so that his area of influence is outside of anywhere that one of his corps might actually be affected.
I'll do the same with McDowell, even though he might add 1 to some corps' offensive or defensive value. I would rather forgo that possibility to have them active more often than with that chance.
Of course you will need them if you want to invade with a corps, but they don't have to actually land to allow corps status, just be in range.
Once better army leaders are found.... ever heard of Minnesota and Vermont? Fremont actually likes California.
Go ahead and ask me about the SVDM Plan
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ArmChairGeneral
- AGEod Grognard
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OK, I'll bite, what is the SVDM plan?
JBEtexas,
Man, you have started some really good threads!
The corresponding question on the CSA side, is what to do with JoJo? You usually need to make him an Army in 1861 for CP reasons, but then the Armies crowd each other once Corps are allowed, especially once Lee comes on the scene. Plus, you get a lot of good three stars, but hardly any two stars: JoJo (and ASJ for that matter) would be more useful as Corps commanders than Army leaders, but then you have to demote them (can't remember if JoJo is senior to ASJ, which would be convenient). I usually Army him up for 1861, then send him to Tennessee later to take over for ASJ, sending ASJ to New Orleans or Missouri. How do others play this?
JBEtexas,
Man, you have started some really good threads!
The corresponding question on the CSA side, is what to do with JoJo? You usually need to make him an Army in 1861 for CP reasons, but then the Armies crowd each other once Corps are allowed, especially once Lee comes on the scene. Plus, you get a lot of good three stars, but hardly any two stars: JoJo (and ASJ for that matter) would be more useful as Corps commanders than Army leaders, but then you have to demote them (can't remember if JoJo is senior to ASJ, which would be convenient). I usually Army him up for 1861, then send him to Tennessee later to take over for ASJ, sending ASJ to New Orleans or Missouri. How do others play this?
Send to Vallhalla Death March?
I am a proponent of trying to use the Union 3* to the best of their abilities. But as said earlier you don't want to accidentally get them more seniority to make it harder to assign others Armies when they come up.
Halleck gets to set up a training camp out west, but eventually often moved east for the same purpose.
Banks, usually holds Baltimore reserve position against an aggressive CSA early game, with the added bonus of recruiting. Sometimes same purpose as garrison commander washington, but hopefully not as an army commander if can help it.
Butler often is ok to follow up ampihibious landings in the south and become garrison commander.
McD is the go to guy for any half arsed attempts to actually do something when he gets his guaranteed active phase, but also can be on standby for ambibious stuff when McC comes east.
McC starts training camp out west until winter then comes east for a period of training and holding action with the AoP. Also gets a chance at a bit of limited glory when he gets his guaranteed active phase.
Fremont. Ultimately fairly useless but has saved the day a few times as garrison commander St Louis against aggressive CSA raiding.
All are better than a kick in the teeth, but they need to be put in the right place for sure.
I am a proponent of trying to use the Union 3* to the best of their abilities. But as said earlier you don't want to accidentally get them more seniority to make it harder to assign others Armies when they come up.
Halleck gets to set up a training camp out west, but eventually often moved east for the same purpose.
Banks, usually holds Baltimore reserve position against an aggressive CSA early game, with the added bonus of recruiting. Sometimes same purpose as garrison commander washington, but hopefully not as an army commander if can help it.
Butler often is ok to follow up ampihibious landings in the south and become garrison commander.
McD is the go to guy for any half arsed attempts to actually do something when he gets his guaranteed active phase, but also can be on standby for ambibious stuff when McC comes east.
McC starts training camp out west until winter then comes east for a period of training and holding action with the AoP. Also gets a chance at a bit of limited glory when he gets his guaranteed active phase.
Fremont. Ultimately fairly useless but has saved the day a few times as garrison commander St Louis against aggressive CSA raiding.
All are better than a kick in the teeth, but they need to be put in the right place for sure.
"Stay low, move fast"
McClellan has to be given an army if you don't want to commit NM suicide, McDowell stays where he is, and I usually just wait for the Grant/Thomas/Sherman combination to make some easy kills and then promote/give Grant an army ASAP. He can handle the entire Trans-Mississippi and Kentucky from Cairo with 9 corps, bringing other generals into army command as they reach 3 stars.
Freemont goes wherever he is needed to raise loyalty, Butler does the same, Banks goes to DC or Baltimore to manage the defenses, while Halleck and McClellan train brigades.
Freemont goes wherever he is needed to raise loyalty, Butler does the same, Banks goes to DC or Baltimore to manage the defenses, while Halleck and McClellan train brigades.
Send to Vallhalla Death March?
I used to try that. They just don't want to die.
Success with McDowell early on can mean that McClellan will stay out of the way and never even become a 3-star, so I try to make sure McDowell achieves the needed objectives.
Other than that, it's hard to say because my game is getting pretty far from vanilla. Several of the early 3-star Union generals I have converted to 2-stars. Halleck and McClellan are trainers behind the lines, although this is pretty gamey. I am eventually modding Halleck to be removed from the game if McClellan is promoted and subsequently demoted as GiC, to simulate Halleck's promotion to GiC and de facto removal from field command. It seems really gamey to keep Banks (and Sickles and McClernand) locked up in cities when in reality he was a significant contributor in the field, even if it wasn't always successful contributions.
I try to use Banks if I can, but he is less useful than Butler and Fremont (in game terms). I don't really think his slow-mover attribute is accurate, so I changed it. Rosecrans delayed moving just as much if not more than Banks did, yet the game doesn't penalize Rosecrans.
Butler and Fremont are atrocious field commanders, but they can be useful, briefly, in areas with extremely low loyalty. They're kind of like free loyalty modifier RGDs. I wish I could introduce an event that would remove Fremont from the game if someone of lower seniority is promoted 3-star over him.
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Captain_Orso
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There is an event. It's in ..CW2\Events\USA Events.sct and is named evt_nam_USA_Fremont1861:
AAAAAAAND it's turned off...
*pssst* just change that underscored 0 above to a 1 and it will work again
Code: Select all
SelectFaction = USA
SelectRegion = $Saint_Louis_MO
StartEvent = evt_nam_USA_Fremont1861|[B][U]0[/U][/B]|2|evt_txt_USA_Fremont1861|Event-img_USA_Fremont1861|$Saint_Louis_MO|118
Conditions
MinDate = 1861/08/30
MaxDate = 1861/11/02
Probability = 50
EvalUnqUnit = John C.Fremont
Actions
DescEvent = evt_desc_USA_Fremont1861
SelUnqUnit = John C.Fremont
RemoveCuUnit
GenMsg
EndEventAAAAAAAND it's turned off...
*pssst* just change that underscored 0 above to a 1 and it will work again
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Captain_Orso
- Posts: 5766
- Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:02 pm
- Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Oh boy!! You asked about the SVDM Plan!! 
Well, that's the Saint Valentine's Day Massacre Plan and it goes like this, you take all those useless generals to Chicago so that they are inside the city on the '62 Feb Early turn and then you wait for the turn to be over and.....
..nothing happens.
Because you cannot intentionally kill leaders. As a lone unit anyplace you send them will do nothing to them. If you give them a unit, send them in the middle of winter into a swamp and wait for their demise, the unit will starve and Fremont will demonstrate how the natives of Borneo fillet human-thigh, and in spring come out looking like Butler.
Or put them on a transport and send them swashbuckling through the Atlantic like real pirates. Let Semmes take them to Davey Jones' locker for you
[INDENT]Summon the KRAKEN!!
[/INDENT]
Once Semmes has turned their ship to matchsticks, they will swim ashore in Atlantic City to sit in beach chairs drinking Sarsaparilla™ while accosting the cigarette girls with unseemly suggestion.
What were you expecting? A miracle?
*MuahahaHAHAHAhacoughcoughcough*
Okay, okay. If you are just looking to get them off your back, there are actually a couple of paths you can go by to do this.
1. Appeasement. Give them the army they crave, but a department they won't. I hear Anchorage, AK is quite nice in the summertime
2. Discredit. You cannot intentionally kill them, but you can ruin their reputations. Give them a militia or two and let them assault some nasty forces until they lose their militia and some seniority. It will make it that much easier to passover them, and that's all you need. But it will cost lots of time--how long do you think before they are activated and can assault--and some militia, and it might just backfire if one of them got lucky and actually gained a seniority point.
3. The New Gods. Find your good leaders--small hint: one's name sounds like plant--and protégé the hell out of them. Each time one of them is promoted over one of your bad boys, the bad boys will lose some seniority. They don't have to lose much, just enough that you can put your protégé in command of an army without taking nasty NM hits.
4. Be a Man. Grant's only at seniority 16 and McClellan's got a hard-on for the AoP? Bend over and take it like a man! Those 15 NM and 351 VP's *pshhhaa* you'll make those up with one hand tied behind your back. Actually, taking a 4 NM hit to put Grant in charge of an army is worth it. But try to protégé him first. There's nothing more satisfying than when you go to give him an army and he's already a seniority 3 and you can thumb your nose at Fremont, McClellan and co.
So that's it, kids.
Now off to bed, and DON'T forget to brush your teeth, 'nite.
Well, that's the Saint Valentine's Day Massacre Plan and it goes like this, you take all those useless generals to Chicago so that they are inside the city on the '62 Feb Early turn and then you wait for the turn to be over and.....
..nothing happens.
Because you cannot intentionally kill leaders. As a lone unit anyplace you send them will do nothing to them. If you give them a unit, send them in the middle of winter into a swamp and wait for their demise, the unit will starve and Fremont will demonstrate how the natives of Borneo fillet human-thigh, and in spring come out looking like Butler.
Or put them on a transport and send them swashbuckling through the Atlantic like real pirates. Let Semmes take them to Davey Jones' locker for you
[INDENT]Summon the KRAKEN!!
[/INDENT]
Once Semmes has turned their ship to matchsticks, they will swim ashore in Atlantic City to sit in beach chairs drinking Sarsaparilla™ while accosting the cigarette girls with unseemly suggestion.
What were you expecting? A miracle?
*MuahahaHAHAHAhacoughcoughcough*
Okay, okay. If you are just looking to get them off your back, there are actually a couple of paths you can go by to do this.
1. Appeasement. Give them the army they crave, but a department they won't. I hear Anchorage, AK is quite nice in the summertime
2. Discredit. You cannot intentionally kill them, but you can ruin their reputations. Give them a militia or two and let them assault some nasty forces until they lose their militia and some seniority. It will make it that much easier to passover them, and that's all you need. But it will cost lots of time--how long do you think before they are activated and can assault--and some militia, and it might just backfire if one of them got lucky and actually gained a seniority point.
3. The New Gods. Find your good leaders--small hint: one's name sounds like plant--and protégé the hell out of them. Each time one of them is promoted over one of your bad boys, the bad boys will lose some seniority. They don't have to lose much, just enough that you can put your protégé in command of an army without taking nasty NM hits.
4. Be a Man. Grant's only at seniority 16 and McClellan's got a hard-on for the AoP? Bend over and take it like a man! Those 15 NM and 351 VP's *pshhhaa* you'll make those up with one hand tied behind your back. Actually, taking a 4 NM hit to put Grant in charge of an army is worth it. But try to protégé him first. There's nothing more satisfying than when you go to give him an army and he's already a seniority 3 and you can thumb your nose at Fremont, McClellan and co.
So that's it, kids.
Now off to bed, and DON'T forget to brush your teeth, 'nite.
There is an event. It's in ..CW2\Events\USA Events.sct and is named evt_nam_USA_Fremont1861:
That's true, but the only conditions were the date and the existence of Fremont. Although I guess I could add a few conditions checking for his 2-star and other 3-stars that started as lower seniority 2-stars.
I'm archiving post #10 to read again later when I need a laugh. ;D
JBEtexas wrote:Hello!
What do you do with the Union starting 3-Star Generals?
#9 - 2-2-2 McDowell
#3 - 1-1-2 McCellan
#5 - 2-0-1 Fremont
#6 - 2-0-1 Butler
#7 - 2-0-1 Banks
#13- 1-0-1 Halleck
(Stats from memory)
- McDowell sticks with the Army of Potomac as long as he can. I don't do much in the East anyway, just maneuver around when given openings.
- Am I the only one that likes McClellan? His training prowess is great, the little boost to defense is a bonus as a trainer that isn't going on the offensive anyway, and I lose that training capability when he disappears from the game. I give him an army in Cincinnati and train like crazy, with flanking 1 division corps get his defensive boost.
- Freemont historically did nothing with nobody in the West. I give him an "army" of a brigade or two and let him do nothing with nobody in northern Missouri. He usually ends up unsuccessfully chasing Stand Waite around Iowa.
- Butler starts in Fortress Monroe. I make that the 'Army' of Fortress Monroe, and he sits there getting fat and not getting reinforced all game.
- Banks recruits in New York. Baltimore (with his CP bonus) might be a better option. Thanks for the suggestions.
- Halleck trains in New York or Pittsburgh. Like Mac, I find his training ability extremely useful, and do not begrudge wasting an army.
Considering how bad they are, they do have useful attributes. Used correctly in the right places with no expectations of battlefield success, they can and will help you. ...Except Freemont. He sucks.
What about Don Carlos Buell? During my game he became 2-3-4, don't know how it happened.
If he won a few battles, the resultant XP would increase his OFF/DEF ratings. In answer what to do with him, I use him in a similar way as Butler or Fremont. The latter two can be used to get very low (< 15%) loyalty up relatively quickly, and then they can move forward to other places with the same issue. Buell can come in afterward and continue to raise it. The reason for the one-two punch is that if loyalty is above a certain number, the martial law ability (Butler/Fremont) will lower loyalty in some cases, where population administrator (Buell) will not. Buell is good for garrisons in larger cities at or near the front, since his stats aren't atrocious.
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Hegyytoportyan
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