petdocvmd
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A couple of Union strategy questions

Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:12 am

I recently started my first full campaign as the Union against Athena. Since it's my first playthrough, I don't have a good feel for what resources might be coming my way via events, and how best to allocate my existing resources. I've studied a number of AARs and strategy threads, which have helped me form some goals regarding forces and targets, but the vast array of choices are a bit overwhelming :bonk:

For example, any advice on what to do with the New England Squadron, NY Squadron, and Atlantic Fleet? I've read about folks building fleets for coastal raiding, sweeps, coastal port blockade, transport of recruits, and the blockade boxes. How best to divvy up these naval forces? I've started down the road of building a raiding division and a garrison division in NY for a coastal assault (Norfolk?), but how many and what kinds of ships will I need? I'm building a mortarboat, but not sure what else I'll need - the NY Squadron? The entire Atlantic Fleet? something in-between? I was thinking of sending the NE fleet to the Gulf blockade box, but seemed like a lot of ships for that...

On a different note, any advice for the far West? I see Cavalry appearing in KS forts. Send them to raid somewhere? Go after Indians (and how?)? Defend areas?

Finally, what of California? Will the Pacific fleet unlock? If so, do I ship troops East or is marching overland to AZ, NM, or TX better?

Thanks for your help!

Scott

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Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:20 am

"... any advice on what to do with the New England Squadron, NY Squadron, and Atlantic Fleet?"

Some of those squadrons start off as incomplete, just like some of the brig squadrons the CSA gets. If you stick them in a large harbor like NY or Boston and set them to green/green status (sorry, I don't know the shorthand for that), they'll start getting their numbers back. You don't have to do that, but I usually do.

One way or the other, I use them to patrol the Potomac, Chesapeake and the James. All those waterways will allow ships with deep drafts. If you manage to get four or more warships on the Potomac right outside of DC, without having the fleet sunk, Athena is most likely not going to be able to move a force to DC from Alexandria. Unlike a human player, Athena won't agree to use only actual river transports for travel. Keep her from maneuvering easily into the cities like Williamsburg, or from boating over to Port Tobacco. With the number of ships you have, you can land invasion forces at two or more points along the coast. It doesn't take more than a marine regiment and some militia traveling with a fleet of, say, two warships and a brig squadron to take a town like Beaufort or Georgetown. Florida is ripe for the picking, but usually not worth much effort.

Rather than have my regular army troops on the west coast march all the way overland to the southwest or Missouri, I send a transport from the east coast to Los Angeles (~45 days/3 turns). At the same time I send the transport, I gather troops in Oregon and in one spot in CA. By the time the transport arrives, I can decide where best to use those forces. Send them all into Arizona and New Mexico while I wait for the locked forces to shake loose? Use them to invade coastal Texas? It takes a little while, but without that transport over there, troop movement on the west coast is much slower.

IMO, the most annoying thing in the west for the Union is chasing down a bunch of raiders. I use my cavalry and the few rangers I can produce to decimate the forts and settlements. This only works against Athena; a human player will eat your lunch with this strategy. Once the forts that are not along the river are burning merrily, it's easier to defend the west. I usually keep the forts in regions with a harbor (because you can't destroy the harbors).

So far as I know, the Pacific fleet only unlocks if FI triggers.

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Captain_Orso
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Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:26 pm

If you ask a dozen players you will get a dozen and a half answers for sure ;)

I like to blockade the South as much as I can. As grimjaw stated, those Blockade Flotillas missing Blockade ships should have the Blockade ships replace. It takes about 2 turns per Blockade ship with the Flotilla in a large harbor in Passive Posture--left side of RoE (Rules of Engagement) green--to pickup and complete building a replacement ship. During this time the Flotilla is locked in harbor.

Once the Flotillas are up to full strength I send them into the Blockade Boxes. Keep the Flotillas in the Blockade Boxes divided up between the two boxes as evenly as possible.

Insure that you have at least 2 transport per box to keep the Flotillas supplied. Nearly always on transport squadron will be used to supply the Blockade Flotillas in one Blockade Box at a time. Once either its GS or Ammo has reached nearly 0, send it back to harbor to resupply. From the Atlantic Blockade Box I sent them back to New York City, from the Gulf Blockade Box I send them generally to Fort Pickens, but that will depend on the situation there. Alternatively you can sent them to Forts Jefferson and Zachary. If you find the supplies in the forts are not keeping up with what is needed build a couple of transports squadrons to use to build a depot in one of the forts.

In AACW I used to always put all the Blockade Squadrons and transports in 1 stack. In CW2 I have the feeling that when a single stack of Blockade Flotillas fights a blockade runner, ALL of the ships in the stack take a lot of cohesion loss even though most of them could not even be involved in the combat. To alleviate this I've stated giving each Blockade Flotilla its own transport squadron and put each of these pairs into its own stack. The Blockade Flotillas can carry enough supplies to get along without their transports for a couple of turns, so barring any major hiccups in resupplying the transports I haven't seen any issues with this of yet.

I would not suggest using the Blockade Flotillas to patrol the East Coast rivers. They are too expensive for that duty, plus you only need 4 naval combat elements to block land units--maximum of a 90% chance--from crossing a river.

If you want to patrol the rivers on the East Coast build gunboats of 2 squadron fleets--4 gunboat elements--, each with 1 riverine transport squadron, and use those liberally. It's also a good idea to build a couple of Monitor/Timberclad fleets to guard them. Since having your patrols in Offensive Posture will wear them down very quickly and they can still block crossings in Defensive Posture you will want do that. But that also means that CS fleets in DP can sail right past these patrols. That's where your guards come into play. Leave those on the exposed end of the river in DP. If a CS fleet in OP enters the river it will have to attack your guarding fleet. If it sails by in DP, you will have 1 turn to send your guard-fleet after them. Even if in the next turn they might manage to knock your patrol fleet out of its river region, you still have some days for your guard fleet to reach that region and attack the CS fleet before any land units can complete a crossing.

The Pacific Fleet in San Francisco only unlocks if attacked--far from likely--or if FI (Foreign Intervention) goes over 100 and Great Britain and France enter the war. In the latter case you will wish you had built lots of ships while you had the chance as the fleet of these factions will wreak havoc on your shipping and blockades and generally anything they find. Often they will post themselves in the Atlantic in front of New York City to intercept any traffic heading into or out of the North Atlantic OMB (Off-Map-Box).

So if FI goes up to 60-70 and you think it might continue to raise, you better start build more warships.

As far as the Far West goes, I'm not that confident of what to do there. If you want to invest LOTS of money, you can put a depots in each of the OMB's to have the abundant supplies on the West Coast move into Western New Mexico and supply a troop buildup there. You can even build a road all the way, but it will take many, many turns. You should probably improve the regions between North-Western NM and Kansas so that at least one line of stockades has at least "track" along the entire route to assist in supplies flowing from the Kansas-Missouri-Iowa area. There are 4 regions that need tracks along the southern edge of the IT.

If you want to know how to send troops from the West Coast toward the east, the best way is to just drag them from their current location to where you want them to end and check their paths. Generally those coming form Oregon I send to Denver and those further south I send through Southern California.

Put all those troops you are sending on such long marches into PP (Passive Posture) as long as they are far enough away from any enemies--generally all of the time until they actually reach the map and even on the map up around Colorado--, so that they will loose the least cohesion on their multi-turn marches; set them to Enter Structure at the end of their march so that they will start recovering cohesion as soon as the arrive in a region, even if it's in the middle of the turn. Also DO NOT stack them together! If you stack them, the entire stack will suffer from a huge lack of CP's and will be that much slower and lose cohesion that much faster. Plot moves that will put them inside a town or stockade before they have marched too far--about 2-3 turns in general, least they wear them selves down too far and take forever to make any progress.

Once Carson and Carlton are unlocked try to use those 2 in their own stack; build a division, even if it's a small one. They have high strategic ratings and will remain active most of the time, but they are about the lowest in seniority of all of your leaders. Stacking them with Canby or other leaders with higher rank/seniority will only cause them to be inactive much of the time.

If you want, you can use one of the Training Officers, such as Franz Sigel, to train up all those militia you get in the Far West, but of course then you can't use him in the east for that.

I can't really say much more with very much certainty on the Far West. It can be a money and troop vortex if you let it so you will have to use your best judgement.

And don't forget the sun screen ;)

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samba_liten
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Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:44 pm

Thanks Captain Orso. That was a great post!

petdocvmd
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Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:44 pm

grimjaw wrote:"Some of those squadrons start off as incomplete, just like some of the brig squadrons the CSA gets. If you stick them in a large harbor like NY or Boston and set them to green/green status (sorry, I don't know the shorthand for that), they'll start getting their numbers back. You don't have to do that, but I usually do."


OK, well these 3 popped up in Boston and NY harbor. The Atlantic Fleet seems pretty large already, but I will set them all to passive and chart any changes over the next few turns as I build a raiding division.

grimjaw wrote:"One way or the other, I use them to patrol the Potomac, Chesapeake and the James. All those waterways will allow ships with deep drafts. If you manage to get four or more warships on the Potomac right outside of DC, without having the fleet sunk, Athena is most likely not going to be able to move a force to DC from Alexandria. Unlike a human player, Athena won't agree to use only actual river transports for travel. Keep her from maneuvering easily into the cities like Williamsburg, or from boating over to Port Tobacco."


I get the idea regarding patrols in these locations, and the "four or more" information is exactly the kind of stuff that just doesn't appear in the manual or anyplace easy to find. Could you expand a little on the human/Athena travel difference, though? I'm a bit confused by your wording of that issue...

grimjaw wrote:"With the number of ships you have, you can land invasion forces at two or more points along the coast. It doesn't take more than a marine regiment and some militia traveling with a fleet of, say, two warships and a brig squadron to take a town like Beaufort or Georgetown. Florida is ripe for the picking, but usually not worth much effort."


Yes, that's exactly the detail I was looking for, although there have been varying recommendations of troop force strength for these maneuvers. I've seen several posts (albeit some from AACW I) where divisional strength is recommended, as well as a marine regiment, mortar boat, and a siege expert leader (plus a regiment to leave as a garrison). I couldn't find prior recommendations for naval force composition.

grimjaw wrote:"IMO, the most annoying thing in the west for the Union is chasing down a bunch of raiders. I use my cavalry and the few rangers I can produce to decimate the forts and settlements. This only works against Athena; a human player will eat your lunch with this strategy. Once the forts that are not along the river are burning merrily, it's easier to defend the west. I usually keep the forts in regions with a harbor (because you can't destroy the harbors)."


Just so I am sure I understand: you destroy all of your forts and settlements (and presumably any CSA ones you can get) that do not have harbors, and concentrate your Western forces in the harbor forts? How would Athena and a human player react to this such that you'd pay for it in the latter case?

Thanks for all of your help!

Scott

grimjaw
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Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:30 pm

"Could you expand a little on the human/Athena travel difference, though? I'm a bit confused by your wording of that issue..."

Sure. The game engine allows you to move troops by river without using a transport unit to do it, by virtue of excess river supply capacity. You've got rail and river supply numbers, and as long as your troops don't exceed the numbers, you can move them via rail or qualifying river or coastal region(?). In many PBEM games, the players use a different rule (not an in-game setting, just an agreement) and say that troops moving by river have to do so in a transport. There's no current way I'm aware of to get Athena to do that.

I'm not sure, but I think if you use the excess river supply option to move the troops, they don't suffer the same cohesion hits as they would if they traveled in a transport.

"you destroy all of your forts and settlements (and presumably any CSA ones you can get) that do not have harbors, and concentrate your Western forces in the harbor forts? How would Athena and a human player react to this such that you'd pay for it in the latter case?"

Athena is still fairly predictable, and the landscape doesn't change with the game. She might destroy depots but she's rarely (never?) going to intentionally destroy forts and stockades if they aren't immediately threatened. One of the better advantages of the western theater is for cavalry and movement, yet she'll camp cavalry at Fort Nowhere, Indian Territory, rather than raiding with it. A decent human player will be cutting off Union supply capability and preventing them from advancing too far. I doubt Athena would prepare a set of entrenchments on the south bank of the Arkansas River and leave them there.

The way I look at it, as the Union I need control of the Arkansas and the Mississippi at least down to Memphis. With that, the amount of resources the CSA needs to take and hold Missouri and prohibitive. I'm removing potential lines of supply and defense for both sides: the western forts. I can't dry up the rivers.

I do a similar thing as the CSA. There's a very thin line of a few forts in Texas by the time I'm through setting the prairie ablaze. If Canby and crew manage to take Arizona, New Mexico and El Paso, TX, it's going to be a long, dry, starving march to Austin, harried by one of the CSA's few strengths in that region: lots of fast-moving raiders and cavalry.

petdocvmd
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Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:07 pm

Captain_Orso wrote:"It takes about 2 turns per Blockade ship with the Flotilla in a large harbor in Passive Posture--left side of RoE (Rules of Engagement) green--to pickup and complete building a replacement ship. During this time the Flotilla is locked in harbor."


I can't recall when these ships appeared. I know they were originally locked, and now are unlocked. Does becoming unlocked mean that the Flotilla has reached full strength? I never set passive posture, but they may have been locked there several turns more than 2 :bonk:

Captain_Orso wrote:"Ensure that you have at least 2 transport per box to keep the Flotillas supplied. Nearly always one transport squadron will be used to supply the Blockade Flotillas in one Blockade Box at a time. Once either its GS or Ammo has reached nearly 0, send it back to harbor to resupply."


BY "transport squadron," do you simply mean a transport unit counter with 2 elements, or are you suggesting some sort of escort along with the transports?

Captain_Orso wrote:"If you want to patrol the rivers on the East Coast build gunboats of 2 squadron fleets--4 gunboat elements--, each with 1 riverine transport squadron, and use those liberally. It's also a good idea to build a couple of Monitor/Timberclad fleets to guard them. Since having your patrols in Offensive Posture will wear them down very quickly and they can still block crossings in Defensive Posture you will want do that. But that also means that CS fleets in DP can sail right past these patrols. That's where your guards come into play. Leave those on the exposed end of the river in DP. If a CS fleet in OP enters the river it will have to attack your guarding fleet. If it sails by in DP, you will have 1 turn to send your guard-fleet after them. Even if in the next turn they might manage to knock your patrol fleet out of its river region, you still have some days for your guard fleet to reach that region and attack the CS fleet before any land units can complete a crossing."


This is simply awesome - thank you for the valuable info!


Captain_Orso wrote:"Put all those troops you are sending on such long marches into PP (Passive Posture) as long as they are far enough away from any enemies--generally all of the time until they actually reach the map and even on the map up around Colorado--, so that they will loose the least cohesion on their multi-turn marches; set them to Enter Structure at the end of their march so that they will start recovering cohesion as soon as the arrive in a region, even if it's in the middle of the turn. Also DO NOT stack them together! If you stack them, the entire stack will suffer from a huge lack of CP's and will be that much slower and lose cohesion that much faster. Plot moves that will put them inside a town or stockade before they have marched too far--about 2-3 turns in general, least they wear them selves down too far and take forever to make any progress."


Another really helpful tidbit :)

Thanks so much for the excellent advice!

Scott

petdocvmd
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Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:23 pm

grimjaw wrote:"Could you expand a little on the human/Athena travel difference, though? I'm a bit confused by your wording of that issue..."

In many PBEM games, the players use a different rule (not an in-game setting, just an agreement) and say that troops moving by river have to do so in a transport. There's no current way I'm aware of to get Athena to do that."


Ah - that's why I was confused. I didn't realize you were referring to a house rule.


grimjaw wrote:"The way I look at it, as the Union I need control of the Arkansas and the Mississippi at least down to Memphis. With that, the amount of resources the CSA needs to take and hold Missouri and prohibitive. I'm removing potential lines of supply and defense for both sides: the western forts. I can't dry up the rivers.

I do a similar thing as the CSA. There's a very thin line of a few forts in Texas by the time I'm through setting the prairie ablaze. If Canby and crew manage to take Arizona, New Mexico and El Paso, TX, it's going to be a long, dry, starving march to Austin, harried by one of the CSA's few strengths in that region: lots of fast-moving raiders and cavalry."


So as the Union then, what do you do with Canby et. al presuming you've torched supplies? I presume this strategy would also preclude sending CA troops overland...

Thanks again,

Scott

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Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:43 pm

Yes, a house rule, thank you. I'd forgotten what it was referred to. I don't play PBEM often because it's usually my lunch that gets eaten.

In the far west it's a little different. There aren't multiple easy routes to reach California, so I don't feel the need to use scorched earth tactics. If nothing else, and assuming I have forces still in New Mexico when he's unlocked, I'll send Canby to New Mexico by himself. His perks (Indian fighter and better use of supplies) make him worth it as a defender. Carson makes a great counter to native American forces in that region, and I pair him with cavalry or some rangers. Carleton has decent stats and is often active. Some of the regulars from California go overland to try to take Arizona and New Mexico. It depends on what kind of leftover resources I have after the other theaters.

petdocvmd
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Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:16 am

Captain_Orso wrote:"If you want to patrol the rivers on the East Coast build gunboats of 2 squadron fleets--4 gunboat elements--, each with 1 riverine transport squadron, and use those liberally. It's also a good idea to build a couple of Monitor/Timberclad fleets to guard them."


Perhaps the answer is because it is too early, but I do not seem to be allowed to build either gunboats or riverine transports in the Potomac? I can build them in Philly, but will I be allowed to travel along the coast from bay to bay to get them to the Potomac? Unfortunately the C & D canal does not appear to be modeled :-(

Thanks,

Scott

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Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:16 am

petdocvmd wrote:I can't recall when these ships appeared. I know they were originally locked, and now are unlocked. Does becoming unlocked mean that the Flotilla has reached full strength? I never set passive posture, but they may have been locked there several turns more than 2 :bonk:


A full blockade Flotilla has 1x sail Frigate, 1x Steam Frigate and 6x Blockade Ship. If any of these are missing, if you put that Flotilla into a large harbor in Passive Posture (green) and you have at least 1 Replacement Chit in your the Replacement Pool of the correct type--Heavy Warship for the Frigates, Light Warship for the Blockade Ships--the game will add the missing ship to the Flotilla and start building it. Which this replacement ship is being built, the Flotilla is locked in the harbor--there's a dark stripe across the upper-right corner and a padlock in the same corner.

Blockade Ships take about 2 turns to build each, but both types of Frigates take 240 day (8 turns). Since you cannot build independent Blockade Ships, and since it doesn't take that long to bring these understrength Flotillas up to their TOE it's a viable solution to just leave them in harbor in PP until all the missing Blockade Ships have been replaced. You have to pay attention to them though, because once they start building a replacement, they will change from PP to DP, and to get the next replacement to state building, you will have to set the Flotilla to PP again. This prevents you from starting to build a replacement ship you did not want to wait for, since you cannot break-off the building of a replacement ship.

You can however build and independent Steam Frigate and later merge it into your Flotilla. Sail Frigates however are built in 2 ship squadrons, so you cannot build a single sail Frigate to merge into your Flotilla. You do get a number of single ship sail Frigate squadrons though, so if you were to miss a sail Frigate from a Blockade Flotilla, you can use one of these to replace it.

petdocvmd wrote:BY "transport squadron," do you simply mean a transport unit counter with 2 elements, or are you suggesting some sort of escort along with the transports?


Yes, Transports always come in 2 ship squadrons. You can combine 2 such squadrons into a 4 ship squadron, but there's not real reason to do this.

When moving transports between harbor and the Blockade Boxes, I set them to blue/green (DP/Retreat) with SO Evade Combat. Like this they will practically never be caught.

petdocvmd wrote:This is simply awesome - thank you for the valuable info!




Another really helpful tidbit :)

Thanks so much for the excellent advice!

Scott


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Captain_Orso
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Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:24 am

petdocvmd wrote:Perhaps the answer is because it is too early, but I do not seem to be allowed to build either gunboats or riverine transports in the Potomac? I can build them in Philly, but will I be allowed to travel along the coast from bay to bay to get them to the Potomac? Unfortunately the C & D canal does not appear to be modeled :-(

Thanks,

Scott


On the East Coast Gunboats and Riverine Transports can only be built in Pennsylvania, as you have noted.

No the C & D Canal is not represented in the game. I actually had to read up on it, as I did not realize that it exists, so kudos to you for bringing it to my attention Image

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Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:26 am

petdocvmd wrote:Perhaps the answer is because it is too early, but I do not seem to be allowed to build either gunboats or riverine transports in the Potomac? I can build them in Philly, but will I be allowed to travel along the coast from bay to bay to get them to the Potomac? Unfortunately the C & D canal does not appear to be modeled :-(

Thanks,

Scott


On the East Coast Gunboats and Riverine Transports can only be built in Pennsylvania, as you have noted.

No the C & D Canal is not represented in the game. I actually had to read up on it, as I did not realize that it exists, so kudos to you for bringing it to my attention Image

petdocvmd
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Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:21 pm

Captain_Orso wrote:"On the East Coast Gunboats and Riverine Transports can only be built in Pennsylvania, as you have noted.

No the C & D Canal is not represented in the game. I actually had to read up on it, as I did not realize that it exists, so kudos to you for bringing it to my attention."


OK, will start building a squad in Philly.

I used to live a few minutes north of DE and crossed over the canal many a time on drives to lower DE :)

Thanks!

Scott

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