WSU RoR on CSA Brigs in Blockade Boxes

[The Red Baron]

What's the Rate of Return (RoR) on WSU for CSA brigs placed in the blockade boxes? Has anyone done the math?

I'm a couple months into an April '61 start as the CSA. Union has 25% blockade; I have 5 brig elements total spread between both boxes with Josiah Tattnall commanding 1 unit composed of 1 brig element. Last turn those 5 elements brought back 7 WSU or 1.4 WSU per brig. My intent is to build more but how much more depends on what RoR I might achieve.

Do I get a better RoR with a leader like Tattnall commanding or do leaderless brig stacks do just as well? Does Union blockade % effect my haul? I'm assuming it does, but this is my first time at bat as the CSA. I'm playing with historical attrition. Should I build transports to keep my brigs at sea longer? Will the presence of transports in the brig stack increase the likelihood of the Union spotting the stack and sinking my shipping?

[Merlin]

The CSA has no need for transports or a blue water navy. For that matter, don't buy brigs either; you'll have around 10 or so brig units by 1864 anyway. Do buy brig replacements and stick your brig units in ports with naval yards on G/G. They'll pick up a second element and you can then send them out to the boxes on G/G/Evade Combat for a good five turns or so before they get attacked and need to return for repair/resupply. By mid 1863, your brig blockade-running fleet will be pulling in more cash and WSU than New Orleans does.

[Gray Fox]

If you split your brigs between two blockade boxes, then the Union gets two chances to attack your ships each turn. If you put them all in one box, then you get the same amount of return, but they can only be attacked once per turn.

If you build one transport, you can keep your one brig fleet out almost continuously by sending the transport back and forth to port. The brigs don't earn anything when they are in port.

A damaged brig still earns the $1/1WSU per turn when it is in the box. If you purchase replacement chips for the brigs, then figure out how many turns it would take the brig to pay for this expense. I don't see how it's worth it. Keep damaged brigs out until they are sunk.

That's the way I see the math.

[Stonewall]

Does anyone know off the top of their heads if increasing the transport capacity of the Brig increase the $/WSU it brings per turn?

I suppose I could just modify the model and test it myself, but I hate duplicating work.

[The Red Baron]

The CSA has no need for transports or a blue water navy. For that matter, don't buy brigs either; you'll have around 10 or so brig units by 1864 anyway.

The CSA needs or seems to need WSU badly; 63 per turn ain't gonna cut if for long (and the blockade hasn't even picked up steam yet). The only choices seem to be either invest in brigs or invest in IW/Armories. By 1864 the war is almost over, and I might have lost NO by then. I want to overrun D.C. a full year or more before that. Am I missing something? Does the CSA receive so many flavor BDEs and replacement chits that WSU aren't so much of an issue?

Keeping damaged brigs out until they're sunk seems smart. Even with one hit and ten cohesion, they're still afloat and bringing in $$ and WSU.

[Merlin]

Nearly everything the CSA can build seems to cost just a little bit less in all three categories than their Union counterparts. I've generally found taking about 6-7 of the CSA's 20-something industrial decisions results in having more WSU by Jan. '63 than any player can ever prudently use, even with a strong blockade. Brigs are cheaper, somewhat blockade-proof, but bring diminishing returns. Industry is more expensive and brings a higher return, but is vulnerable to capture. It really depends on the player to decide what route he's going to take, and personally I use both.

[Gray Fox]

The only choice is to win battles. Winning battles causes your NM to go up and all of your production goes up with it. Get your NM up high enough and you win. Factories and brigs won't accomplish this, only a well led army will.

[The Red Baron]

Nearly everything the CSA can build seems to cost just a little bit less in all three categories than their Union counterparts. I've generally found taking about 6-7 of the CSA's 20-something industrial decisions results in having more WSU by Jan. '63 than any player can ever prudently use, even with a strong blockade. Brigs are cheaper, somewhat blockade-proof, but bring diminishing returns. Industry is more expensive and brings a higher return, but is vulnerable to capture. It really depends on the player to decide what route he's going to take, and personally I use both.

It's good to know that as the war progresses WSU shouldn't be a problem with a little prudent mixture of investments.

[The Red Baron]

The only choice is to win battles. Winning battles causes your NM to go up and all of your production goes up with it. Get your NM up high enough and you win. Factories and brigs won't accomplish this, only a well led army will.

I know you advocate crushing the Union in the East with the "Best of Best" as soon as the CSA is able. This is my intent, but it seems I'll need some WSU to build up that battle-winning, production and NM-boosting force; however, I can't see building a war-winning force on only 63 WSU per turn. Those good VA BDEs and heavier artillery are expensive.

[The Red Baron]

As an aside, how do you quote multiple posts within the same post?

[Jethro]

As an aside, how do you quote multiple posts within the same post?

Little, hard to see icon to the right of "Reply With Quote".

[Captain_Orso]

As an aside, how do you quote multiple posts within the same post?

1. Find the first post to which you wish to reply with quote.
2. Press the "Reply with Quote" button.
3. Click within the reply box (where you write).
4. Press <Cntl><a> to mark all text.
5. Press <Cntl><c> to copy all text to your clipboard.
6. Click the [Cancel] button on the bottom right.

For each subsequent post you wish to reply to with quote, except the last one:

1. Press the "Reply with Quote" button.
2. Click within the reply box (where you write) below the quoted text.
3. Press <Cntl><v> insert all text from the clipboard.
4. Press <Cntl><a> to mark all text.
5. Press <Cntl><c> to copy all text to your clipboard.
6. Click the [Cancel] button on the bottom right.

For the last post you wish to reply to with quote:

1. Press the "Reply with Quote" button.
2. Click within the reply box (where you write) below the quoted text.
3. Press <Cntl><v> insert all text from the clipboard.

Now you have all the quoted texts from all the posts to which you want to reply within one text entry box and can reply to each section of quoted text within one reply post.

[Jethro]

1. Find the first post to which you wish to reply with quote.
2. Press the "Reply with Quote" button.
3. Click within the reply box (where you write).
4. Press <Cntl><a> to mark all text.
5. Press <Cntl><c> to copy all text to your clipboard.
6. Click the [Cancel] button on the bottom right.

For each subsequent post you wish to reply to with quote, except the last one:

1. Press the "Reply with Quote" button.
2. Click within the reply box (where you write) below the quoted text.
3. Press <Cntl><v> insert all text from the clipboard.
4. Press <Cntl><a> to mark all text.
5. Press <Cntl><c> to copy all text to your clipboard.
6. Click the [Cancel] button on the bottom right.

For the last post you wish to reply to with quote:

1. Press the "Reply with Quote" button.
2. Click within the reply box (where you write) below the quoted text.
3. Press <Cntl><v> insert all text from the clipboard.

Now you have all the quoted texts from all the posts to which you want to reply within one text entry box and can reply to each section of quoted text within one reply post.

There is an easier way. I should have been more clear. If you look on the bottom of each post there are three buttons on the right. For some reason, the last button on the right doesn't have a label, but it's for multi-quote. Just click on each post you want to quote and go from there.

Hopefully, this will save you some time in the future, CO.

[Captain_Orso]

There is an easier way. I should have been more clear. If you look on the bottom of each post there are three buttons on the right. For some reason, the last button on the right doesn't have a label, but it's for multi-quote. Just click on each post you want to quote and go from there.

Hopefully, this will save you some time in the future, CO.

I guess I'm never too old to learn something new apy:

Many thanks!

[The Red Baron]

There is an easier way. I should have been more clear. If you look on the bottom of each post there are three buttons on the right. For some reason, the last button on the right doesn't have a label, but it's for multi-quote. Just click on each post you want to quote and go from there.

Hopefully, this will save you some time in the future, CO.

As I was reading your first post, I hovered over this button and realized immediately that it was what I needed; however, on my PC there's no text next to the symbol and the symbol is grayed out or diminished in comparison to the text (probably why I never paid any attention to it). Thanks for pointing me in the right direction! I feel half-blind for not noticing this before.

1. Find the first post to which you wish to reply with quote.
2. Press the "Reply with Quote" button.
3. Click within the reply box (where you write).
4. Press <Cntl><a> to mark all text.
5. Press <Cntl><c> to copy all text to your clipboard.
6. Click the [Cancel] button on the bottom right.

For each subsequent post you wish to reply to with quote, except the last one:

1. Press the "Reply with Quote" button.
2. Click within the reply box (where you write) below the quoted text.
3. Press <Cntl><v> insert all text from the clipboard.
4. Press <Cntl><a> to mark all text.
5. Press <Cntl><c> to copy all text to your clipboard.
6. Click the [Cancel] button on the bottom right.

For the last post you wish to reply to with quote:

1. Press the "Reply with Quote" button.
2. Click within the reply box (where you write) below the quoted text.
3. Press <Cntl><v> insert all text from the clipboard.

Now you have all the quoted texts from all the posts to which you want to reply within one text entry box and can reply to each section of quoted text within one reply post.

How can I possibly properly thank a man for taking the time to write all that down? Until you are better compensated, many thanks.

[Jethro]

Yeah, that really was pretty damned nice, CO.

Even formatted with a numbered list... fancy!

[Stonewall]

I know you advocate crushing the Union in the East with the "Best of Best" as soon as the CSA is able. This is my intent, but it seems I'll need some WSU to build up that battle-winning, production and NM-boosting force; however, I can't see building a war-winning force on only 63 WSU per turn. Those good VA BDEs and heavier artillery are expensive.

Brigs are pretty useful, but take a while to really show a ROI. At a cost of $20 and 10 WSU, that is 30 "income points" that are necessary for it to generate before it becomes profitable. That is also assuming that you don't need to spend resources on replacements for damage the unit takes. My experience is that each brig will average about 1 "income point" per turn. So, you need 30 turns or 15 months before it nets you anything. Then blockade runner RGD's are very nice ways to supplement CSA WSU income.

[The Red Baron]

I noticed the RGD for blockade runners, but trading 1 NM for a measly 8 WSU seemed a rip off. I suppose I would feel more comfortable if I had 140 NM sitting in the "bank", but it still seems a steep price to pay for the amount of WSU the CSA receives. Is the CSA that desperate?

[Stonewall]

I noticed the RGD for blockade runners, but trading 1 NM for a measly 8 WSU seemed a rip off. I suppose I would feel more comfortable if I had 140 NM sitting in the "bank", but it still seems a steep price to pay for the amount of WSU the CSA receives. Is the CSA that desperate?

I always play from an April 61 start. In order to do early unit builds, have sufficient replacement to cover combat losses and have the WSU necessary for doing a couple of the early industrialization options, I play my blockade runner RGD every turn I have one available. If your NM is near 100, it makes no sense to not do it. If you drop below 100, at least in 1.03, the CSA has 7 die rolls per turn go gain a NM point back through the "balancing" effect.

[The Red Baron]

If you drop below 100, at least in 1.03, the CSA has 7 die rolls per turn go gain a NM point back through the "balancing" effect.

I had no idea each faction had 7 die rolls per turn to regain NM. (I'm assuming the Union receives the same chance.) From that perspective trading 1 NM for 8 WSU, especially in the early game, doesn't seem like such a risk. The Law of Averages should negate that 1 NM loss a least once in awhile.

[Stonewall]

I had no idea each faction had 7 die rolls per turn to regain NM. (I'm assuming the Union receives the same chance.) From that perspective trading 1 NM for 8 WSU, especially in the early game, doesn't seem like such a risk. The Law of Averages should negate that 1 NM loss a least once in awhile.

USA only has 4 die rolls. And I believe the die rolls are only when your NM is sub 100.

[Captain_Orso]

The auto-balance mechanics kick in each turn a faction's NM deviates from 100 --below or above.

I'm not sure on the number of die rolls, but the probability is equal to the difference between 100 and that faction's actual NM.

EG: if your faction's NM is 90, each dr has a 10% chance of raising the NM by 1 NM.

[Stonewall]

There is a modifier called "National Resilience" or somesuch in the gamedata/factions folder that controls the number of rolls you get. That file has has some other neat stuff in it. For example, I always knew that the USA had a lower unit cohesion recovery rate than the CSA. I didn't know that it was set to be 50% of normal with the CSA at 100% of normal.