Russia/Imam Shamil uprising

[Tiferet]

OK, I am playing through Grand Campaign with Russia and got Caucasian uprising by Imam Shamil. I defeated all units and "the cost is clear" for 20 odd turns. However the loyalty of those regions that rebelled is still 0 to Russia 100 to Rebels. The question is - does this even closes by script? Should I just wait? Or did something went wrong (cause i had a bug with battlereport with Shamil's main army and had to switch off battle reporting) and i have no way now to get the loyalty back?

[Kensai]

Loyalty will slowly rise back if you keep units (armed forces) there. I think Military Police (MP) will speed up the whole process. But it takes time.

[Tiferet]

thanks a lot!

[ajnatalo]

There is also I believe a scripted event for that area that helps too.

[Christophe.Barot]

it may happen because it seems there is a mechanism which converts randomly or semi randomly 100% rebel loyalty to 100% nation loyalty (something we'd need to examine and have info too) but for lesser rebellion values, it seems not to work, I have some rebellion coming from german loyalty mechanism (loyalty going to bavaria and removed from prussia when there is no longer bavaria) and I have still those 13% or so rebel loyalty for years ... and my military presence is strong and ancient

conversely some lithuanian areas which went 100% rebels when I crushed the rebellion there are now under prussian rule 100% russain loyal, which gives my russian ally a casus belli versus me - and no way b giving them it back but by script - ditto for captured on rebels economic facilities which never return russian as nationalization strikes foreign investors, not +100 relationship allies (kensai, some points to noicte and adress)

[Tiferet]

thank you for sharing. Just to let you all know, i played on and in time the Shamil uprising was "closed" with scripted event and loyalty returned to pre-uprising values.

[driggsd]

Along the same lines when I have this upring the game crashes, or more to the point when ever I engage Iman Shamil's unit the game crashes.
I have upgraded to patch 1.3d and this still happens. Is there an kind of fix for this?

[Jim-NC]

Hello and welcome to the forums driggsd.

We will need to see the logs for the turn in question. We may also need to see the turn (and the turn before to see what is happening). If you can post those, we may be able to help.

[driggsd]

Thank jim I actualy got it fixed. Went into the event file, and noticed that for the Shamil uprishing it had shamil's unit listed but not assiged to a province. Once I modded the russian event file by assigning it to a province, I reloaded from a previous save. When the event fired, Shamil now had units with him (was part of the issue before had his face but no units in the stack) and I could engage them no problem.

I am guessing I had a corrupted file when I downloaded.

[HerrDan]

Thank jim I actualy got it fixed. Went into the event file, and noticed that for the Shamil uprishing it had shamil's unit listed but not assiged to a province. Once I modded the russian event file by assigning it to a province, I reloaded from a previous save. When the event fired, Shamil now had units with him (was part of the issue before had his face but no units in the stack) and I could engage them no problem.

I am guessing I had a corrupted file when I downloaded.

Which patch are you playing?

[driggsd]

1.03d qf

[HerrDan]

1.03d qf

Interesting to know that you solved your problem by yourself, indeed PON is very easy to mod, but many people seem too reluctanct to try, congratulations to you for trying and achieving what you wanted, if you need any help with modding I could try to help you out

Is this patch the equivalent to the 1.03e full?

[driggsd]

Is this patch the equivalent to the 1.03e full?

No clue there.

As for the modding. I am an old Paradox player. So you learn how to red code and fix things becuase their stuff is always broken. How-ever since they went to steam only product I will not buy anything from them again. (As well as I am sick of nothing working as promised until the 3 DLC). I started play Ageod games a while back when I bought WW1 Gold. I was sick of fighting WW2 over. And realy can not stress how much i hate historic play. May as well watch a movie if you want to do just do everything like it was done IRL. (my opinion)

[HerrDan]

No clue there.

As for the modding. I am an old Paradox player. So you learn how to red code and fix things becuase their stuff is always broken. How-ever since they went to steam only product I will not buy anything from them again. (As well as I am sick of nothing working as promised until the 3 DLC). I started play Ageod games a while back when I bought WW1 Gold. I was sick of fighting WW2 over. And realy can not stress how much i hate historic play. May as well watch a movie if you want to do just do everything like it was done IRL. (my opinion)

Well, nobody does "Everything exactly like in history" (it's a game after all), but let's say that a realistic aproach is the main thing that attracted me to PON. One thing, is to make the central powers win the first world war, or see Spain winning the ASW, another is to turn Serbia into a super power and invades USA... ...just a silly example to show why i don't play victoria 2 anymore, even though I paid for their last expansion, heart of darkness, I haven't played a single month of that game, because I simply cannot stand playing completelly unrealistical "historic games" anymore, if I wanted to play "science fiction" I would play Sid's games...

Anyway it's a matter of personal opinion, and in any case as I stated nobody plays 100% like real history, but I think that what is really attractive in this wonderful game is that it tends to lead to a more realistic campaingn experience than games like victoria, for instance, immersion is kinda crushed when you see USA getting Ireland from a peace treaty with England (just to tell about some of the things that might happens in v2)

Anyway nice to know that Ageod games appeals to ex-victoria 2 players

[driggsd]

Well, nobody does "Everything exactly like in history" (it's a game after all), but let's say that a realistic aproach is the main thing that attracted me to PON. One thing, is to make the central powers win the first world war, or see Spain winning the ASW, another is to turn Serbia into a super power and invades USA... ...just a silly example to show why i don't play victoria 2 anymore, even though I paid for their last expansion, heart of darkness, I haven't played a single month of that game, because I simply cannot stand playing completelly unrealistical "historic games" anymore, if I wanted to play "science fiction" I would play Sid's games...

Anyway it's a matter of personal opinion, and in any case as I stated nobody plays 100% like real history, but I think that what is really attractive in this wonderful game is that it tends to lead to a more realistic campaingn experience than games like victoria, for instance, immersion is kinda crushed when you see USA getting Ireland from a peace treaty with England (just to tell about some of the things that might happens in v2)

Anyway nice to know that Ageod games appeals to ex-victoria 2 players

To be fair, if they did a EU/Vicky2 style game on a totaly different map. I would snatch that up in aheart beat. I am sick of fighting the same wars over and over again. I mean go alternate world with a 1700's level of developement, more proceedural desicions and less loocked in events. I would eat that up. Hell the majority of the dificulty would be map designe. Populating the povinces with resounces, creating culture groups and tech tree is very simple programing. Once you have a working game engine, that is the hard part. Everything else is just easily modable data fill. Even the AI can be done in a way that is more responsive if you create a new world.

[HerrDan]

To be fair, if they did a EU/Vicky2 style game on a totaly different map. I would snatch that up in aheart beat. I am sick of fighting the same wars over and over again. I mean go alternate world with a 1700's level of developement, more proceedural desicions and less loocked in events. I would eat that up. Hell the majority of the dificulty would be map designe. Populating the povinces with resounces, creating culture groups and tech tree is very simple programing. Once you have a working game engine, that is the hard part. Everything else is just easily modable data fill. Even the AI can be done in a way that is more responsive if you create a new world.

I see, but then it would be a different game style if it was "alternate world" as you suggest, it's more or less what Sid's games are about. As I love history, I don't really get tired of playing historical games at all, there are so many possibilities, so many "what if" and dealing with these so many possibilities while playing an immersive game that gives me the feeling of being "making an alternate history" within the realm of "what could have happened" is absolutely priceless to me. But sometimes I enjoy playing an RPG or some similar kind of game that deals with "fantasy worlds" and the likes, by the way I've been an rpg game master for more than 10 years now and I surely like it, but as I said it's not what Ageod games are about.

[Christophe.Barot]

OK, I am playing through Grand Campaign with Russia and got Caucasian uprising by Imam Shamil. I defeated all units and "the cost is clear" for 20 odd turns. However the loyalty of those regions that rebelled is still 0 to Russia 100 to Rebels. The question is - does this even closes by script? Should I just wait? Or did something went wrong (cause i had a bug with battlereport with Shamil's main army and had to switch off battle reporting) and i have no way now to get the loyalty back?

it changes naturally but it is slow - it is WAD

iormally with years you come to a natural loyalty - not 100% russian but some 80% russian 20% caucasian, then in the endgame it even close to 100% Russian

there are rebel loyalty at first but it wanes rather quickly (rather is one change of a few % every 6 months, not every 15 days) matter of years, not turns - that's how it turned out to be for me (Poland was worse, in some areas, I loost all loyalty and it came to zero loyalty, remel loyalty going all to Poles ...

I guess when 100% loyalty are to rebels, sudden shifts happen and at once, snap, you get 100ù loyalty, it's unpredictable, but happens in recent version (1.03 e at least), but for for low loyalty, must be zero (a fix would be welcome, yes !)

represent this to you, oh would be Ermolov - you conquered their lands, slaughtered their sons and raped their women (if not you personally perhaps some of your cossacks or former convicts or some brute serves you count necessarily in your else decent, honest and patriotic Czar and God fearing army) - they hate you ! they are muslims, and you're a Kefir (an infidel dog, which is what they are for you too, O brave orthodox Russian warrior and faithful servant of the Czar) - that is the starting point !

before
- they get used to your presence while still practising their religion ,
- some of their nobles are "invited" to the court at St petersburg, get money and honour by the Czar,
- some emigrate to Ottoman Empire fellow believers (Circassians),
- your own kin (Cossacks, other Russian) settle there and replace local population, or mix with inter marriages (some of them may convert, none of families want an infidel as son in law I guess)

years, tenths of years pass ... 10 years is 240 turns in PON - is hisorically a short span

so check the trend (no decrease at all is abnormal) normally loyalty slowly goes up

- if you keep permanent troops in each and every disloyal area (and you'd better, as expect tghem to randomly revolt)- rememeber than usually a tremendous part of Russian military was in garrison duty (allogenous, social upheaval, possible lack of loyalty) - normal - you have scores of mobilizable troops, especially cavalry, use them and balance with your economic possibilities - economic growth is a must for success - buy a few gendarmes too, but don't leave them alone or they'll be slaughtered

- if you feed them correctly (provide your population a maximum of food, consumption goods luxury goods, don't hesitate to buy abroad too and resell to your population, there is no economic loss unless you stockpile too much, just temporary need to advance money)

then loyalty will rise

victories in the area helps too, change loyalties, especially in objectives area - smite a rebellious traitor, or a Turk - your troops should be concentrated, but the necessary garrison in Poland , Capital and garrisons, especially crucial places (fear revolts), in Caucasus and Balkans (Turks) + Central Asia anyway - Japan and Germany will pose a problelm way later

be patient, is a Russian quality , for "normalization", time works for you ... just don't release your grip

dispatching troops in the vast Empire is one of the hard tasks of a Russian player, that's the way it would be - and an interesting task for a strategic minded player

[driggsd]

Ok So I have updated to the 1.04 patch and my work around for the system failure with the Caucuses War event is no longer working. So my question is does anyone else have a fix for this issue? What I am going to try is to adjust the event end date up to one year after the start date and drop the probability down from 25 to 05. I will see if that helps.

I dont like the idea of going around an event, but the fact that when ever I attack the Iman Shamil stack, the game crashes is real game breaker for me.