So my Army of Mississippi under Albert Sidney Johnston has been besieging St. Louis for the first six months of 1862: inside the city is a small Union force under John C. Fremont (current combat power ~200). I outnumber Fremont about 12,000 to 5,000, although that advantage is much smaller than it was due to casualties and attrition. My question is: how do I take this blasted city? I have breached the fortifications and launched repeated frontal assaults, some of which are successful, but I never seem to make any headway because Fremont is apparently able to replace all of his losses. Will this be the case along as he's sitting on a depot in St. Louis? Will it make any difference if I put naval forces on the river next to the city? Moreover, is there a particular strategy in the battle planner that would be most effective in a situation like this?
Taking St. Louis is pretty much my only significant goal in the Western theater at the moment, so any advice that would help me finish the job would be met with an ovation from Richmond.
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MajorMandrake
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Ol' Choctaw
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Get another 3 to 5,000 troops and go at it again. You need 3 to 1 odds or better.
Yes he replaces his losses. If you kill a garrison unit a new one spawns. To starve him you need fleets of 8 to 12 combat elements in each water area. I don't think you will get that. If you do it may still take a year to starve some of the units but you won't starve them all. Also more and better artillery never hurts.
Yes he replaces his losses. If you kill a garrison unit a new one spawns. To starve him you need fleets of 8 to 12 combat elements in each water area. I don't think you will get that. If you do it may still take a year to starve some of the units but you won't starve them all. Also more and better artillery never hurts.
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ArmChairGeneral
- AGEod Grognard
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If 200 CP is his max force replaced and rested, then St. Louis is totally yours in a few turns. Like Ol’ Choctaw said, gather up enough extra power from wherever you can to get over 700 (3x is a good rule of thumb, but out there you probably have a lot of light troops and you need to be sure). Wait till everybody is formed up and rested, then assault away as soon as you go active. I always try to get elite forces into this type of battle if I can, they give a lot of combat power and absorb those heavy cannon hits from the Fort Guns that might break militia or cavalry (and of course buff the rest of their division too). The one in Malvern has probably spawned by now, find it if it isn't already in St. Louis.
Sometimes I have to bring the extra troops into St. Louis by marching them north from Charleston, but now is the time to consider risking the guns at Cairo. He is besieged and trapped in a structure and will have difficulty escaping the battle. You will never starve him out of a city that size but you won't get a better chance at St. Louis than this one, so hit him as hard as you can as soon as you can.
If his max is actually in the 400’s or more once he recovers, then it may be too big for you to assault with what you can put together if you are early in the game. In that case, try to hold the siege for the few months while you build some infantry in Jeff City; your troops will be doing good work pinning down the defenders and denying the Union resources in the meantime. Supply can be an issue; a strongly held depot at Jeff City will supply this force nicely (since the one at Rolla is usually gone already).
If I have to dig in for a long siege, I like to put a stockade in the region west of St. Louis to help with supply and as a defensive point during Union counterattacks. I also like to put my Army stack there with a Corps doing the actual besieging in St. Louis. If you are forced out of St. Louis you will then be very likely to withdraw to this region and then be able to fall back to Jeff City. The Army will usually MTSG if you have rail to St. Louis so go ahead and include the power of the Army stack when deciding if you have enough power to assault. During counterattacks, you must hold this region. If you don’t and then lose a battle in St. Louis, you risk retreating south, leaving your corps permanently boxed out of the action in Missouri, isolated, and without a nearby supply source.
What does the rest of the region look like? Do you hold Jefferson City, and if so do you have at least a Division there? If not, you may be overextended and vulnerable to counterattacks from the west which cut off your supply and retreat, forcing you south. Do you have Cairo? If so you should be able to gather and move plenty of troops in quickly from Tennessee (land in the region south of St. Louis and then walk them in to avoid the guns but this can take an extra turn). Having Cairo makes retreating south out of St. Louis less dangerous, though you will still be boxed out of MO, but don’t even bother to defend it right now if you have it: move the captured equipment out by river and get everyone else up to the main event.
Sometimes I have to bring the extra troops into St. Louis by marching them north from Charleston, but now is the time to consider risking the guns at Cairo. He is besieged and trapped in a structure and will have difficulty escaping the battle. You will never starve him out of a city that size but you won't get a better chance at St. Louis than this one, so hit him as hard as you can as soon as you can.
If his max is actually in the 400’s or more once he recovers, then it may be too big for you to assault with what you can put together if you are early in the game. In that case, try to hold the siege for the few months while you build some infantry in Jeff City; your troops will be doing good work pinning down the defenders and denying the Union resources in the meantime. Supply can be an issue; a strongly held depot at Jeff City will supply this force nicely (since the one at Rolla is usually gone already).
If I have to dig in for a long siege, I like to put a stockade in the region west of St. Louis to help with supply and as a defensive point during Union counterattacks. I also like to put my Army stack there with a Corps doing the actual besieging in St. Louis. If you are forced out of St. Louis you will then be very likely to withdraw to this region and then be able to fall back to Jeff City. The Army will usually MTSG if you have rail to St. Louis so go ahead and include the power of the Army stack when deciding if you have enough power to assault. During counterattacks, you must hold this region. If you don’t and then lose a battle in St. Louis, you risk retreating south, leaving your corps permanently boxed out of the action in Missouri, isolated, and without a nearby supply source.
What does the rest of the region look like? Do you hold Jefferson City, and if so do you have at least a Division there? If not, you may be overextended and vulnerable to counterattacks from the west which cut off your supply and retreat, forcing you south. Do you have Cairo? If so you should be able to gather and move plenty of troops in quickly from Tennessee (land in the region south of St. Louis and then walk them in to avoid the guns but this can take an extra turn). Having Cairo makes retreating south out of St. Louis less dangerous, though you will still be boxed out of MO, but don’t even bother to defend it right now if you have it: move the captured equipment out by river and get everyone else up to the main event.
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ArmChairGeneral
- AGEod Grognard
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MajorMandrake
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ArmChairGeneral
- AGEod Grognard
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Good luck, St. Louis can be a tough nut to crack, your besieging force is very exposed to enemy actions behind it unless you have an avenue of supply and retreat back toward the west. But it is do-able! I've never gotten (and then kept) it without a very secure Jefferson City first (meaning that I have already dealt a major defeat to Lyons-and-friends in the field, sent them scurrying back to Lexington/Leavenworth to regroup, and built a depot and entrenched at least a division at Jeff). St. Louis is always my key objective for 1862, (unless I think I can take a shot at Louisville!) having it really changes the war for the CSA and it is very easy to defend once you have it.
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MarkCSA
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What might help (if you can do this), is:
1) Obviously grab Jeff City and Rolla for retreat and supply.
2) Create an all-cavalry division (with perhaps 3 Horse Art.) under good Cavalry Generals. One to lead, one to be head of the division. Do not attach a supply unit. Ideal for sweeping the smaller Union forces that tend to trickle into Missouri and (even better) ideal for finishing off wounded Union stacks that are low on cohesion.
3) Missouri is one of the few states where you can easily raise a complete division in 1 location. Grab Jeff City, park a Division on it and raise the Missouri Division.
1) Obviously grab Jeff City and Rolla for retreat and supply.
2) Create an all-cavalry division (with perhaps 3 Horse Art.) under good Cavalry Generals. One to lead, one to be head of the division. Do not attach a supply unit. Ideal for sweeping the smaller Union forces that tend to trickle into Missouri and (even better) ideal for finishing off wounded Union stacks that are low on cohesion.
3) Missouri is one of the few states where you can easily raise a complete division in 1 location. Grab Jeff City, park a Division on it and raise the Missouri Division.
Murphy's Law of Combat: 'The most dangerous thing on a battlefield? An officer with a map'
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