"Hated Occupier".....what does that do?

[Q-Ball]

The tooltip for Fremont and Butler identfies both as "Hated Occupier", and that they will not hestitate to declare Martial Law in a city they occupy.

What does that mean, however, in game terms? Tooltip is not clear.

Does that mean they automatically impose Martial Law in unfriendly cities, like Free Regional Cards? (If so, that would be kind of useful)

Please fill us in, and maybe "Spoons" Butler needs to be moved to Memphis.......

[Ace]

They are supposed to slowly increase loyalty of the city they are in by using some unpopular methods. In game terms, put them in disloyal city or region and watch the loyalty slowly rise.

[ArmChairGeneral]

That is exactly how I have attempted to use them (actually I am a CSA player, so I am using Hindeman, who I believe has the corresponding ability) but I never saw verifiable increases. This could have been due to other loyalty shifts masking the effects...? OTOH I am pretty sure I have seen Civilian Administrator work as advertised (and in multiple cities in a state, also as advertised).

[ArmChairGeneral]

Ooops, I meant "Good Population Administrator." It is the buffed version of the occupier trait (based on the in-game description).

[veji1]

It should work differently, a hated occupier should negate some bad loyalty effects, but drive it down, not drive it up. Say a province produces 50 supplies, 20 ammos, 20€ and 3 WS as an example, but has very low loyalty (80% CSA), then say because of this it should only produce 25 supplies, 10 ammos, 10€ and 1 WS. A general with the hated occupier trait should help it go back up, maybe all the way up in terms of production, but either crash the loyalty further, or at least prevent it from slowly rising to the Union. So such a general would be useful when occupying a place from which you need the production, but have as a risk that loyalty stays bad as long as he is there, which could help coup de mains and partisans in the region.

Good population administrator should be the other way round, smaller positive effects on production, but accelerated gain of loyalty. That's how I see it anyway.

[Captain_Orso]

Hated Occupant reads: "When commanding a stack, this leader applies Martial Law with extreme severity in any rebellious city he has to pacify."

There are two parts to this that are interesting.

"... any rebellious city he has to pacify" -- "Rebellious" is rather vague and might mean having an arbitrary percentage of enemy loyalty, like maybe >50%. A city can revolt, if there is =>90% enemy loyalty in that region and it is not garrisoned. In that case there is about a 15% chance --IIRC-- per turn of a partisan unit being generated in that location.

But can is city be "rebellious" only if it generates a partisan? Or also if it could --in other words, if the locations has =>90% enemy loyalty?

It would seem to follow some logic to believe the former. But also note, that partisan units can be purchased from the force pool outright by the Confederacy in Missouri, Arkansas, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi and Alabama or per RGD by both the Union and Confederacy in any state.

Partisans generated through revolt are locked in their region, but purchased partisans are not and might enter a captured town with >50% thus recapturing it. Would the town then be rebellious? If a hated Occupant then attacked the partisans, would his ability then come into play? If the partisans are subsequently eliminated or driven out, would the town still be rebellious?

"... applies Martial Law with extreme severity ..." -- Martial Law will slowly shift loyalty in the area where it is implemented. For "Good Population Administrator" the leader must be inside the town, and if in a stack, must be the commander of the stack. I'm not sure if the must actually be the highest ranking leader in the location, but he can be alone in his own stack. But for Hated Occupant the leader must command a stack. So probably for the Hated Occupant ability to work the leader must be inside the location.

Considering that the HO leader must be inside the town for his ability to work, therefore a partisan cannot also be inside the town. Therefore the only logical solution would be to consider the town rebellious if it has =>90% enemy loyalty. And if a leader with Hated Occupant is in the town and in command of a stack, his ability would come into play.

[ArmChairGeneral]

veji1: Are you saying that it "should" work like that, or that you think it does work like that?

So what loyalty ranges does the trait effect? 0 to 10% would make it pretty useless, because how often does that come up? Hopefully it works on 0 to 50% loyalties, that would be way more applicable!

Nice tip about needing to be inside the city, Captain_Orso. I hadn't realized that and is probably why it didn't seem to work for me before (he's out of position in my current game so can't test it right now).

[veji1]

That it should, it doesn't work like that, but I would like it to work that way. Generally speaking the whole Loyalty concept is great but only used at 10% of its potential so far...

[marquo]

It should work differently, a hated occupier should negate some bad loyalty effects, but drive it down, not drive it up. Say a province produces 50 supplies, 20 ammos, 20€ and 3 WS as an example, but has very low loyalty (80% CSA), then say because of this it should only produce 25 supplies, 10 ammos, 10€ and 1 WS. A general with the hated occupier trait should help it go back up, maybe all the way up in terms of production, but either crash the loyalty further, or at least prevent it from slowly rising to the Union. So such a general would be useful when occupying a place from which you need the production, but have as a risk that loyalty stays bad as long as he is there, which could help coup de mains and partisans in the region.

Good population administrator should be the other way round, smaller positive effects on production, but accelerated gain of loyalty. That's how I see it anyway.

What screen do I look at to see this regional information about production, etc,?

Thanks

[Ol' Choctaw]

What screen do I look at to see this regional information about production, etc,?

Thanks

There is no screen that shows supply as such by region. The #2 filter will show where it can move and what is stockpiled where. The F-8 will show depots and regions of high supply in a turn but for supply or ammo production you have to look at the tool tip for individual regions with structures.


The F-8 will show you all regions producing war supply and conscripts, however.