So, I'm surprised no one has dared to write a true strategic analysis yet...
What are the different possible strategies for the South and the Union in this conflict?
How your first 100 days should look like? What strategy for 1861 and 1862?
Industrialization, Army building, Navy, Politics, etc.
Come on, share your experience and opinion, let's brain storm!
The first 100 days
"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." Mark Twain
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daddytorgo
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- Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:23 am
I'm in Late-Oct. 1862 with my CSA game. In general I have followed the following strategy.
1) Build up in the East and focus on consolidating positions in Winchester, Fredricksburg, and Manassas with strong (800-900+) Corps. Avoid major engagements, let the Federal troops break themselves upon my entrenchments if they want to fight. General Stuart has recently gathered the eastern cavalry and is beginning to pester behind the lines.
2) Avoid major financial problms by simply issuing taxes and war bonds, not printing new money.
3) Calling for volunteers and instituting partial mobilizations as often as possible.
4) Major actions taking place in the midwest rather than the east. CSA Indian forces are beseiging San Francisco. General Polk's Corps has been responsible for the taking of Louisville, and is currently seiging Cincinnati. The remainder of the Army of Tenessee is providing support and garrisoning Louisville. General's Forrest and Van Dorn have recently gathered the midwestern cavalry and are beginning to pester the Federal's countryside.
1) Build up in the East and focus on consolidating positions in Winchester, Fredricksburg, and Manassas with strong (800-900+) Corps. Avoid major engagements, let the Federal troops break themselves upon my entrenchments if they want to fight. General Stuart has recently gathered the eastern cavalry and is beginning to pester behind the lines.
2) Avoid major financial problms by simply issuing taxes and war bonds, not printing new money.
3) Calling for volunteers and instituting partial mobilizations as often as possible.
4) Major actions taking place in the midwest rather than the east. CSA Indian forces are beseiging San Francisco. General Polk's Corps has been responsible for the taking of Louisville, and is currently seiging Cincinnati. The remainder of the Army of Tenessee is providing support and garrisoning Louisville. General's Forrest and Van Dorn have recently gathered the midwestern cavalry and are beginning to pester the Federal's countryside.
Here goes.
Tips for playing as Union in July campaign
1. Before winter:
- secure Missouri. You can send cavalry to seize Springfield and Fayeteville. Both have depots, so they will be fine during the snow. Rebs will lose two important towns and two depots.
Price should be easily delt with, once he is cut of from his supplies.
- secure all your holdings in Kentucky and bordering states with militia. Bowling Green is a possible death trap for you if you don't secure your rail lines. Build few depots; one in Bowling green and one or two extra ones in bordering states. Get Lextington, KY. That should be enough for first year.
- seize HF and Winchester. Possibly take Manassas but that is not so important for first few months. Settle down during the winter
- build up your river and sea fleets. Try to blockade few ports. One of theimportant ones is Richmond. It has only one exit point and it is easily blocked. Try to find some similar ones.
- try to take Norfolk. Even on the account of losseing ft. Monroe. Norfolk is a strategic town with a harbor so...
- secure Pensacola with one division. If there is time, try to take Mobile. Strategic town with harbor. Great for repairing your Gulf blockade squadron.
2. During winter
- don't call for volunteers during winter. Larger your forces, larger the hits you'll take. Place your forces into towns with depots. Try to have medical units and supply wagons with them in order to reduce the damage from harsh weather. My suggestion is to buildup a fleet during winter time.
3. Army matters
- 1st army - Manassas - goal Richmond
- 2nd Army - Bowling Green - goal Nashville
- 3rd Army - Rolla - goal Springfield and west
- 4th Army - HF - goal clear Shenondoah
Mistake I usually did was to build an army in Grafton. That army IMHO is a waste of army HQ as it has to march quite a lot and there are no strategic towns nerby. It is ok to build it as 5th or 6th army but not before.
Also, pay attention to your 3 star generals. If you know when and where they will appear send them to locations where they will build their armies.
I find it ok to have armies with Banks and McClellan as I always attack when strong in numbers.
That is about it. Hope it will help.
Godspeed
P.S. feel free to comment
Tips for playing as Union in July campaign
1. Before winter:
- secure Missouri. You can send cavalry to seize Springfield and Fayeteville. Both have depots, so they will be fine during the snow. Rebs will lose two important towns and two depots.
Price should be easily delt with, once he is cut of from his supplies.
- secure all your holdings in Kentucky and bordering states with militia. Bowling Green is a possible death trap for you if you don't secure your rail lines. Build few depots; one in Bowling green and one or two extra ones in bordering states. Get Lextington, KY. That should be enough for first year.
- seize HF and Winchester. Possibly take Manassas but that is not so important for first few months. Settle down during the winter
- build up your river and sea fleets. Try to blockade few ports. One of theimportant ones is Richmond. It has only one exit point and it is easily blocked. Try to find some similar ones.
- try to take Norfolk. Even on the account of losseing ft. Monroe. Norfolk is a strategic town with a harbor so...
- secure Pensacola with one division. If there is time, try to take Mobile. Strategic town with harbor. Great for repairing your Gulf blockade squadron.
2. During winter
- don't call for volunteers during winter. Larger your forces, larger the hits you'll take. Place your forces into towns with depots. Try to have medical units and supply wagons with them in order to reduce the damage from harsh weather. My suggestion is to buildup a fleet during winter time.
3. Army matters
- 1st army - Manassas - goal Richmond
- 2nd Army - Bowling Green - goal Nashville
- 3rd Army - Rolla - goal Springfield and west
- 4th Army - HF - goal clear Shenondoah
Mistake I usually did was to build an army in Grafton. That army IMHO is a waste of army HQ as it has to march quite a lot and there are no strategic towns nerby. It is ok to build it as 5th or 6th army but not before.
Also, pay attention to your 3 star generals. If you know when and where they will appear send them to locations where they will build their armies.
I find it ok to have armies with Banks and McClellan as I always attack when strong in numbers.
That is about it. Hope it will help.
Godspeed
P.S. feel free to comment
Forrest said something about killing a Yankee for each of his horses that they shot. In the last days of the war, Forrest had killed 30 of the enemy and had 30 horses shot from under him. In a brief but savage conflict, a Yankee soldier "saw glory for himself" with an opportunity to kill the famous Confederate General... Forrest killed the fellow. Making 31 Yankees personally killed, and 30 horses lost...
He remarked, "I ended the war a horse ahead."
He remarked, "I ended the war a horse ahead."
Well...
Definately interesting stuff.
In my present game, I decided to give the AI all the advantages. Difficulty setting is very hard, FOW is full, AI given more time, Aggressness medium setting (as high seems to be a kamikaze setting) and full randomized generals.
The game started with battles at Manassas and Harpers Ferry. There were terrific losses of men and material. I'm scrambling like crazy to make those up. The armies in the east are eyeball to eyeball and it's pretty intense. I've even had to use my fleets to patrol the Chesapeake to keep reb raiders from plunging deep behind my lines. So my blockade box is 0.
Here is a shot of the situation in the east:
In the west, I was rebuffed at Lexington. Where once (on normal) the rebs hung back from moving hard in Kentucky, now they are pushing forward and could even threaten Cincinnati.
In the Trans-Mississippi, I have taken Jefferson City, as Rolla became the center of reb resistence.
I have printed money once, and now in late september 1861, I'm getting ready to do it again. I have had to pour money into reinforcements to keep my struggling army in the east from evaporating. I have begun building one division and haven't been able to afford naval building what-so-ever.
My morale is 86 compared to the rebs 107. The quality of their troops means a single cavalry unit raiding my borders must be met with at least two units on my part.
I started the game, thinking pretty much the way you outline Marcone. But like all good plans, they have a tendency of changing once the fighting begins...
In the present situation... I'll be happy to just survive until the winter of 1861..
Ray (aka LAVA)
Definately interesting stuff.
In my present game, I decided to give the AI all the advantages. Difficulty setting is very hard, FOW is full, AI given more time, Aggressness medium setting (as high seems to be a kamikaze setting) and full randomized generals.
The game started with battles at Manassas and Harpers Ferry. There were terrific losses of men and material. I'm scrambling like crazy to make those up. The armies in the east are eyeball to eyeball and it's pretty intense. I've even had to use my fleets to patrol the Chesapeake to keep reb raiders from plunging deep behind my lines. So my blockade box is 0.
Here is a shot of the situation in the east:
In the west, I was rebuffed at Lexington. Where once (on normal) the rebs hung back from moving hard in Kentucky, now they are pushing forward and could even threaten Cincinnati.
In the Trans-Mississippi, I have taken Jefferson City, as Rolla became the center of reb resistence.
I have printed money once, and now in late september 1861, I'm getting ready to do it again. I have had to pour money into reinforcements to keep my struggling army in the east from evaporating. I have begun building one division and haven't been able to afford naval building what-so-ever.
My morale is 86 compared to the rebs 107. The quality of their troops means a single cavalry unit raiding my borders must be met with at least two units on my part.
I started the game, thinking pretty much the way you outline Marcone. But like all good plans, they have a tendency of changing once the fighting begins...
In the present situation... I'll be happy to just survive until the winter of 1861..
Ray (aka LAVA)
I have never tried AI on such hard settings. This is very usefull info and I already can see me playing against it on those levels.
And the best part is that Pocus still isn't 100% satisfied with AI, although I think this AI is one of the best I have played against
! This game already is GREAT and I can hardly imagine what will happen with it in a month or two 
.
I am under impression that this will be the only game I'll play
LAVA, if it is not too much too ask; would you be so kind to post what happens at the war end on such hard settings? Very curious
And the best part is that Pocus still isn't 100% satisfied with AI, although I think this AI is one of the best I have played against
! This game already is GREAT and I can hardly imagine what will happen with it in a month or two .
I am under impression that this will be the only game I'll play
LAVA, if it is not too much too ask; would you be so kind to post what happens at the war end on such hard settings? Very curious
Forrest said something about killing a Yankee for each of his horses that they shot. In the last days of the war, Forrest had killed 30 of the enemy and had 30 horses shot from under him. In a brief but savage conflict, a Yankee soldier "saw glory for himself" with an opportunity to kill the famous Confederate General... Forrest killed the fellow. Making 31 Yankees personally killed, and 30 horses lost...
He remarked, "I ended the war a horse ahead."
He remarked, "I ended the war a horse ahead."
I seem to be a little less active than others who have posted here.
Union Player
Early, the one major restriction will be leadership. Later, the major resource shortfall will be war material. Therefore, I base the early game around preparing to best utilize my army and prevent it from being slowed down later.
So that means industry and rail investment. Early investment means that by the time you have the leaders capable of moving large numbers of men, you will be able to supply those men without worrying about cash, conscripts or war supplies.
I invest in a couple of factories from turn 1. By the end of 1861 I aim to have between 4 and 6 of them. I add 5-10 points of rail per turn.
There's simply no point buying brigades as there's no where to put them yet. The first military builds I perform are replacements. However, as they don't fill up every army at once, there's no need to go crazy buying 10 at once. After replacements I buy militia and then a few division hqs. It's going to take a while to get Grant and an army ready west, so a few divisions under McClennan/Pope/Halleck can come in handy in case the CSA gets cocky enough to attack Cincinatti.
Later, I add some transports and frigates for the shipping box, and after about June or July, I start building infantry for the west, then east front.
Militarily, the first 100 days is spent preparing for one attack in the east, and holding out in the west:
Far West
Nothing, for the entire game. I make use of whatever units are already here are are given free. Let the CSA waste their time and money running around the praries. I do garrison Iowa with militia, that's it.
West
First 100 days: hold New Albany, take and hold NE Ky. The game is much harder if Kentucky seceedes, so it's best to lose Bowling Green and have the people loyal to me. I'm resigned to having the CSA threaten Ohio by July. I build militia to garrison OH, IL and MS, use the free West Viriginians to move west along the river line level with Louisville and take those 2 CSA towns with McClennan. Without Louisville, New Albany or the east KY towns, there's nowhere for the CSA to stage an invasion of the north. At best they might take a city before starving and retreating, at worst they'll be doing a Moscow-style retreat during winter and eating their boots.
New Albany is my staging post for reconquest, it's central, 28-32 days by rail from Washington, and <20 days from almost all the western state's recruitment centers. Evenutally Grant, Pope and 1 more Corps commander will form the army here to retake Kentucky in early 1862.
In MO, I use whatever comes free to advance from St Louis south and take the two towns between Madrid and Hnery(?) Forts. Usually Halleck arrives in time to marshal enough combat units to assault both towns. Build a depot in one which will be used to carry supply for the sieges of the river forts.
East
There's really only 1 thing to do with the east: Mannasas or Harpers Ferry. Personally I like to advance on Mannasas immediately as I feel that to be the key to the 1862 campaign. If the CSA move north of HF sobeit: 1) They can't really range far with my army pointing at Richmond 2) I threaten their supply lines from Virginia simply by sitting there and 3) There are enough static troops in Washington to hold out in case of a surprise.
I usually build some militia to garrison WV, lower PA and even NJ, anywhere within threat of a raid out of HF. At the same time, I build a number of skirmishers or militia to cut the Shenandoa rail line, then move south to cut the TN-VA rail. If the Confederates don't retreat from Winchester/HF after that, they starve. With good timing, you can force the CSA to make a winter march without supplies and destroy their army without firing a shot.
Later in '61 I will build some transports each turn for the shipping box, and around winter I go on a river boat buying blitz in anticipation of supporting a two army, 4-5 corps advance down the Mississipi and Kentucky.
If all goes well, taking the bonds+ tax and volunteers+partial mobilization at every opportunity, I'm able to buy what I want with ease during 1862 and drive the steamroller to flatten the secessionists.
Union Player
Early, the one major restriction will be leadership. Later, the major resource shortfall will be war material. Therefore, I base the early game around preparing to best utilize my army and prevent it from being slowed down later.
So that means industry and rail investment. Early investment means that by the time you have the leaders capable of moving large numbers of men, you will be able to supply those men without worrying about cash, conscripts or war supplies.
I invest in a couple of factories from turn 1. By the end of 1861 I aim to have between 4 and 6 of them. I add 5-10 points of rail per turn.
There's simply no point buying brigades as there's no where to put them yet. The first military builds I perform are replacements. However, as they don't fill up every army at once, there's no need to go crazy buying 10 at once. After replacements I buy militia and then a few division hqs. It's going to take a while to get Grant and an army ready west, so a few divisions under McClennan/Pope/Halleck can come in handy in case the CSA gets cocky enough to attack Cincinatti.
Later, I add some transports and frigates for the shipping box, and after about June or July, I start building infantry for the west, then east front.
Militarily, the first 100 days is spent preparing for one attack in the east, and holding out in the west:
Far West
Nothing, for the entire game. I make use of whatever units are already here are are given free. Let the CSA waste their time and money running around the praries. I do garrison Iowa with militia, that's it.
West
First 100 days: hold New Albany, take and hold NE Ky. The game is much harder if Kentucky seceedes, so it's best to lose Bowling Green and have the people loyal to me. I'm resigned to having the CSA threaten Ohio by July. I build militia to garrison OH, IL and MS, use the free West Viriginians to move west along the river line level with Louisville and take those 2 CSA towns with McClennan. Without Louisville, New Albany or the east KY towns, there's nowhere for the CSA to stage an invasion of the north. At best they might take a city before starving and retreating, at worst they'll be doing a Moscow-style retreat during winter and eating their boots.
New Albany is my staging post for reconquest, it's central, 28-32 days by rail from Washington, and <20 days from almost all the western state's recruitment centers. Evenutally Grant, Pope and 1 more Corps commander will form the army here to retake Kentucky in early 1862.
In MO, I use whatever comes free to advance from St Louis south and take the two towns between Madrid and Hnery(?) Forts. Usually Halleck arrives in time to marshal enough combat units to assault both towns. Build a depot in one which will be used to carry supply for the sieges of the river forts.
East
There's really only 1 thing to do with the east: Mannasas or Harpers Ferry. Personally I like to advance on Mannasas immediately as I feel that to be the key to the 1862 campaign. If the CSA move north of HF sobeit: 1) They can't really range far with my army pointing at Richmond 2) I threaten their supply lines from Virginia simply by sitting there and 3) There are enough static troops in Washington to hold out in case of a surprise.
I usually build some militia to garrison WV, lower PA and even NJ, anywhere within threat of a raid out of HF. At the same time, I build a number of skirmishers or militia to cut the Shenandoa rail line, then move south to cut the TN-VA rail. If the Confederates don't retreat from Winchester/HF after that, they starve. With good timing, you can force the CSA to make a winter march without supplies and destroy their army without firing a shot.
Later in '61 I will build some transports each turn for the shipping box, and around winter I go on a river boat buying blitz in anticipation of supporting a two army, 4-5 corps advance down the Mississipi and Kentucky.
If all goes well, taking the bonds+ tax and volunteers+partial mobilization at every opportunity, I'm able to buy what I want with ease during 1862 and drive the steamroller to flatten the secessionists.
Korrigan wrote:Aren't you afraid that a Human CSA won't let alone building your troops and will be much more agressive than the AI? Have you tried this strategy in a PBEM?
Haven't played another human yet
The problem for a CSA player should be the impossibility of decisive action during the first 6 months due to lack of leadership and units. Even victories with 35% combat penalties should not destroy the enemy army. Washington should be able to hold out against assault, and then it's winter.
I think an aggressive CSA player will accelerate his own downfall as after the initial surge is over they're going to be hampered more than historically when the Union behemoth gets going.
The CSA could make inroads into Ohio, Maryland and possibly threaten Washington. The result, unless the Union player fails to adapt and react should be spiralling inflation, no industry, no rail and little cash.
I am running 2 PBEM games, April and July 1861, playing CSA. previously I had beaten the AI in those scenarios by August 1862, so I had some confidence in my abilities.
My experience against Human opponents is that they make the same mistake Union did, they attack too early, I am able to spot the location of attack in advance, rush reinforcements by train and defeat the attacking force. IMO it is a delicate game to play, Union has top be very patient, keep busy CSA player without commiting large forces, while CSA has to be very cautiousm as a single defeat early in the game could mean game over. In all, I think that when players get more experienced in PBEM there will be a lot of manouvering before large battles are fought.
My experience against Human opponents is that they make the same mistake Union did, they attack too early, I am able to spot the location of attack in advance, rush reinforcements by train and defeat the attacking force. IMO it is a delicate game to play, Union has top be very patient, keep busy CSA player without commiting large forces, while CSA has to be very cautiousm as a single defeat early in the game could mean game over. In all, I think that when players get more experienced in PBEM there will be a lot of manouvering before large battles are fought.
I am definitely for building up but I always take what is there for no cost; undefended cities. This way I am building points plus rebs are weaker for those lost cities.
Idea with marines and brigs seems very good to me too.
Idea with marines and brigs seems very good to me too.
Forrest said something about killing a Yankee for each of his horses that they shot. In the last days of the war, Forrest had killed 30 of the enemy and had 30 horses shot from under him. In a brief but savage conflict, a Yankee soldier "saw glory for himself" with an opportunity to kill the famous Confederate General... Forrest killed the fellow. Making 31 Yankees personally killed, and 30 horses lost...
He remarked, "I ended the war a horse ahead."
He remarked, "I ended the war a horse ahead."
daddytorgo wrote:I'm in Late-Oct. 1862 with my CSA game. In general I have followed the following strategy.
1) Build up in the East and focus on consolidating positions in Winchester, Fredricksburg, and Manassas with strong (800-900+) Corps. Avoid major engagements, let the Federal troops break themselves upon my entrenchments if they want to fight. General Stuart has recently gathered the eastern cavalry and is beginning to pester behind the lines.
2) Avoid major financial problms by simply issuing taxes and war bonds, not printing new money.
3) Calling for volunteers and instituting partial mobilizations as often as possible.
4) Major actions taking place in the midwest rather than the east. CSA Indian forces are beseiging San Francisco. General Polk's Corps has been responsible for the taking of Louisville, and is currently seiging Cincinnati. The remainder of the Army of Tenessee is providing support and garrisoning Louisville. General's Forrest and Van Dorn have recently gathered the midwestern cavalry and are beginning to pester the Federal's countryside.
Very good, I'm putting most of the suggestions above into practice.
Any additional thoughts on CSA opening strategies, especially for the 1862 campaign? (excluding the practices of total war economics for the CSA discussed in another thread)
Thanks
daddytorgo wrote:I'm in Late-Oct. 1862 with my CSA game. In general I have followed the following strategy.
1) Build up in the East and focus on consolidating positions in Winchester, Fredricksburg, and Manassas with strong (800-900+) Corps. Avoid major engagements, let the Federal troops break themselves upon my entrenchments if they want to fight. General Stuart has recently gathered the eastern cavalry and is beginning to pester behind the lines.
2) Avoid major financial problms by simply issuing taxes and war bonds, not printing new money.
3) Calling for volunteers and instituting partial mobilizations as often as possible.
4) Major actions taking place in the midwest rather than the east. CSA Indian forces are beseiging San Francisco. General Polk's Corps has been responsible for the taking of Louisville, and is currently seiging Cincinnati. The remainder of the Army of Tenessee is providing support and garrisoning Louisville. General's Forrest and Van Dorn have recently gathered the midwestern cavalry and are beginning to pester the Federal's countryside.
We seem to have the same ideas on how the CSA should proceed. I started an 1861 campaign, it's now Summer 1863, and the only thing on yr list that I haven't done exactly the same is send my Indian war parties to CA (most of 'em are in Nebraska / Great Plains / Missouri).
PS: Watch out for van Dorn --- he's a bit of a womanizer. Don't leave him in the enemy backfield in May 1863, or you'll regret it...
The plural of anecdote is not data
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daddytorgo
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- Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:23 am
el_Gato wrote:We seem to have the same ideas on how the CSA should proceed. I started an 1861 campaign, it's now Summer 1863, and the only thing on yr list that I haven't done exactly the same is send my Indian war parties to CA (most of 'em are in Nebraska / Great Plains / Missouri).
PS: Watch out for van Dorn --- he's a bit of a womanizer. Don't leave him in the enemy backfield in May 1863, or you'll regret it...
I sent the indians to CA on a lark really. Just noticed there was nothing there and it was a big city. Figured I might as well have a crack at it. They got caught in the snow and froze to death when winter came around though, because I was unwilling to have them actually attack the city, I just kept them in siege-mode.
anyways, I havn't played in a little while, been busy with a new job.
And now I suppose I will need a restart once this "no HQ" patch comes out.
but in general I was very happy with the results of my strategy. Took bowling green, louisville, and was within one turn of taking cincy before the feds threw me back with a relief force (i hadn't given myself adequate backup).
Armies in the east won several nice victories against big union forces, although their massive AotP started to look a little menacing. Managed to get forts built in all the major eastern cities on the front (winchester, richmond, f-burg, manassas).
Even sent some partisans on a raid up by pittsburgh (up over W. Va to get there). Didn't succeed in anything but getting killed, but it was enjoyable.
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