Spotting legions?

[godfather]

I am playing the Pompey vs. Caesar scenario using the latest path. I am having to commit two stacks with multiple legions from Gaul to help at the border with Spain. Yet a Pompeian stack of 3 legions was able to get into North East Gaul from Spain with out being detected/intercepted. I think that they went through or adjacent to where my stacks are located. How come I am not able to detect or intercept them? Does my stack's posture have anything to do with this problem?

[Narwhal]

That's IMO an issue with the game.

Base Hide : 1
Small force : +1
Passive : +1
Total : 3

Best detection for "normal" units : 3

You see a unit only if Detection > Hide.

Bottomline : It is super easy to hide forces in AJE.

[PhilThib]

Yes, but that was also the case in the Ancient world, wasn'it? I guess the detection value of cavalry should be made higher, so that it would become interesting for players to have cavalry used as its main historical role, scouting...

[Franciscus]

It could be tweaked, yes, but some cavalry has better detection (ie, IIRC Socii equites have detection = 4, while Roman cavalry (usually considered inferior) has only 3)

[Narwhal]

That's an old proposal of mine that all force with leaders have + 1 detection and maybe +1 hide - all games. Of course, that's an huge change that should be tested

In AJE and as a minor change, I would advocate keeping Roman Legion organic cavalry at detection 3, but giving the cavalry unit detection 4. This would make the cavalry units a bit more useful.

[Narwhal]

As an addendum on this subject, I am currently playing the Marius vs Sulla as Pontus.

I am driving my opponent nuts because my large army (Archaleos's force at the beginning) is basically invisible to him, just somewhere, even though that's definitely not a small stack.

Reason ?

Base Hide : +1
Passive : +1
Moutains (and maybe hills, can't remember) : +1

Total : 3. Roman best units have 3 in detection.

You may think "OK, but then you are hidden in a mountain - you are out of the way for long. Yes, but most mountains in Greece have roads, so I ll spring back into action any time.

Thinking about it, maybe +1 detection bonus on the top of your current detection wherever you have Loyalty would be a good fix, and make Loyalty more important.

[Franciscus]

I think this merits a discussion in beta, so all interested/available betas, please make your inputs there

[godfather]

If I wanted to change the detection rating of Roman cavalry to 4 would this unbalance the game (single player game)? If not where would I find the file to edit? I assume it would just be one tweak for cavalry if Caesars forces aren't different than Pompey's. If I choose not to edit the value any suggestions on how to improve my abilty to detect enemy stacks?

[Franciscus]

If I wanted to change the detection rating of Roman cavalry to 4 would this unbalance the game (single player game)? If not where would I find the file to edit? I assume it would just be one tweak for cavalry if Caesars forces aren't different than Pompey's. If I choose not to edit the value any suggestions on how to improve my abilty to detect enemy stacks?

Hi

You are free to mod as you wish, of course. In fact it is considered by many a very enjoyable aspect of Ageod games

Regarding modding, it should be understood that anyone who does it, assumes his/her own risks; also, although I am not a multi-player, I believe that a host of a game of AJE that mods the game data without consent of his partner is for all effects a cheater . Athena (the AI), though, does not mind that at all, although some unwanted effects may arise, of course. Also, you assume responsability for any errors/bugs/crashes that should arise after you change original game files.

Regarding your particular question, we are not sure of the balancing effects of changing detect value of cavalry in the game, but we may try that, and in fact will also welcome any thoughts/input.

So, how to change detect value of Roman cavalry to 4 in AJE scenarios:

1. We are talking of models. They are in your game folder, in AJE\GameData\Models.
2. Roman cavalry (in AJE, but not in BOR), both single units and the legions cav, and also many of the other nations cavalry units, use the 15CMNCavalry.mdl file to define their various abilities.
3. You can open and edit these mdl files with notepad (the game should be closed, of course). Before you do, though, you should make a backup of your files, "just in case".
4. Open with notepad this particular model, search and change "DetectLand = 3" to "DetectLand = 4". Save
5. Very important: delete the file Models.Cached located also in the Models folder. If not, no change will take effect.
6- Start afresh your game (these will create automatically a new models.Cached file and make the changes active), and start a new campaign or load a previous one. You will notice that roman cavalry (but legions too) will have a detect value of 4

Again, note that SPQ equites used in BOR scenarios use a different model, that has to be changed in the same manner.

Enjoy modding

[James D Burns]

I would advocate for detection values of the individual units not to be changed, but the detection bonus applied for military control to be changed instead. So 51% or greater control in a region and a force gets an additional +3 bonus to detection instead of the current bonus of +2. And if you have 100% control in a region increase the +3 to +4 instead (this is new so may not be easily implemented).

This rule change may also help to solve the issue of slaves, pirates, etc. being non-locatable and would still allow players a chance to operate their larger armies hidden from view in uncontested areas.

Another possible addition to the rule would be to add +0 detection to adjacent regions detection values instead of –1 if you have 51% or greater control and +1 if you have 100% control.

Jim

[Narwhal]

I would advocate for detection values of the individual units not to be changed, but the detection bonus applied for military control to be changed instead. So 51% or greater control in a region and a force gets an additional +3 bonus to detection instead of the current bonus of +2. And if you have 100% control in a region increase the +3 to +4 instead (this is new so may not be easily implemented).

I think it should depend on loyalty and not MC :
- It is more realistic. People you dominate won't help you.
- It will more easily fix the bug with invisible slaves & pirates, as sometimes invisible units take MC, and once done no MC bonus=> still not locatable.
I would use the 75% - 100% Loyalty => + 1 in detection. 51% - 74% => No change.

Not sure about changing the adjacent region values. Applying either your [MC] or my [Loyalty] proposal would change the detection all accross the board already.

[James D Burns]

I wouldn’t think relying on a hostile population for military reports would be something any commander would consider doing. I don’t view Military Control in game terms as the domination of the local populace. Rather I view it as setting up a network of local garrisons and patrols throughout the region to protect your interests.

The higher the MC the more efficient the network is. Think of it as setting up a Provost Marshal’s office in every town and tasking them with local defense needs for their posts. So to me it makes sense that the higher the MC the more reports you should receive about the goings on in a region.

If you only limit detection bonus changes to loyalty, then you basically are not going to affect the rule as it currently is in any regions you lack loyalty in. It makes more sense I think to tie it to MC as you can look at a region and say, “I need better reporting there”, so you move an army in and set up your network of control (you increase MC) and in a month or two you start getting reports about the roving bands of bandits or the small army you were chasing.

Jim

[Franciscus]

Interesting sugestions, thanks

Anyhow for the pirates their evasion value was too high and in next beta patch will be lowered.

As to increasing/giving detection bonus tied to loyalty or MC, I would like to hear PhilThib's input on it. If we decide to do something on those lines, this would require code changes or making new commands exported to the Gamelogic.opt file - tasks for Pocus. And as he, as PhilThib, are 200% focused on CW2, it might take a while...

Regards