[PON] Conflict in Europe - General Thread

[coolbean]

Question, am re-installing PoN, I understand that we copy the game files in dropbox over our game files, but what patch are we now running on and where can I find it (1.03d or c)?

Also, what other files are required to host? I would like to try to take the burden off of bjfagan some.

[Kensai]

Kensai,
Citizen X is expressing his view of things. He was asked to join the game, and then was told that it was good he was joining as that way Russia had a human player to defeat, and that Russia had held off declaring war to wait for the human player.

It's a war game. War should be expected sooner or later. The only thing I can say here is he should have studied the historical events of 1877 before accepting the Ottoman Empire. Should we apologize for history repeating itself through scripted by the developer events?

How is his situation different from Japan's? You have stated publicly that you will not surrender until after the complete and utter occupation of you nation, and that even then you will continue to not accept peace. You did that with Greece (when Germany invaded), and you had lost your entire country, but you refused to negotiate until the country started to riot (it was like 1 year of German occupation as I recall).

I said the same thing. A continuous war is ok, but I believe he does this to disallow the ceding of the claimed regions which is NOT ok, it's obstructionism. Losing your entire country and continuing the war is a perfectly sound strategy if the only things that remain to you are your core regions which no one can claim and given that game has mechanisms to simulate revolts and partisans. If you have the liver to do it, be my guest. But obstructing the flow of the game by not negotiating after being completely overrun is not ok. To give you an example: Japan losing the Kuriles and Okinawa after many years of continuous total occupation is normal, but Japan losing for example Kyushu (a core region) or being forced to do peace when it does not want is not ok.

In other words, if Citizen X does not have a problem, we can keep this war on until the end of the game. The burden falls on us to secure our borders. But the regions claimed should pass to Russia and Greece if his country becomes overrun. And given Russia is dead serious, it will probably soon be.

[Citizen X]

It's a war game. War should be expected sooner or later. The only thing I can say here is he should have studied the historical events of 1877 before accepting the Ottoman Empire. Should we apologize for history repeating itself through scripted by the developer events?


I said the same thing. A continuous war is ok, but I believe he does this to disallow the ceding of the claimed regions which is NOT ok, it's obstructionism. Losing your entire country and continuing the war is a perfectly sound strategy if the only things that remain to you are your core regions which no one can claim and given that game has mechanisms to simulate revolts and partisans. If you have the liver to do it, be my guest. But obstructing the flow of the game by not negotiating after being completely overrun is not ok. To give you an example: Japan losing the Kuriles and Okinawa after many years of continuous total occupation is normal, but Japan losing for example Kyushu (a core region) or being forced to do peace when it does not want is not ok.

In other words, if Citizen X does not have a problem, we can keep this war on until the end of the game. The burden falls on us to secure our borders. But the regions claimed should pass to Russia and Greece if his country becomes overrun. And given Russia is dead serious, it will probably soon be.

Scripted events are no excuse to behave like a dick, Kensai. That's someone's individual choice.

'Nuff said.

[Jonathan Pollard]

Question, am re-installing PoN, I understand that we copy the game files in dropbox over our game files, but what patch are we now running on and where can I find it (1.03d or c)?

Also, what other files are required to host? I would like to try to take the burden off of bjfagan some.

At this point you should use 1.03e which is basically a combination of 1.03 and 1.03d. I don't know what other files are required to host. I could volunteer to host too, because this is the only game I am in and the only install of PON that I have includes the files specific to this game.

[coolbean]

At this point you should use 1.03e which is basically a combination of 1.03 and 1.03d. I don't know what other files are required to host. I could volunteer to host too, because this is the only game I am in and the only install of PON that I have includes the files specific to this game.

Thanks, just found 1.03e and installed it, and submitted the turn. I don't know what is required to host, so I'll wait on that.

I made a few installs, specifically because the custom 1880 WiC scenario PhilThib made for the other game was preventing me and some others from using the combine "+" and split "-" leaders/units feature in this game.

[bjfagan]

Thanks, just found 1.03e and installed it, and submitted the turn. I don't know what is required to host, so I'll wait on that.

I made a few installs, specifically because the custom 1880 WiC scenario PhilThib made for the other game was preventing me and some others from using the combine "+" and split "-" leaders/units feature in this game.

1.03E was supposed to update the game to what was already quick fixed in ours. I believe all you should add are the files found in the Game Files folder, under VGN, on Dropbox.

[bjfagan]

Early June 1879

[Sir Garnet]

These additional files as well, which appear to be part of the VGN in Game Files:

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?28298-PON-Conflict-in-Europe-General-Thread&p=277161&viewfull=1#post277161


======================

Disagree with Kensasi's novel argument that one is obliged to negotiate away or simple cede territory when overrun, except that it can take many years of occupation before de facto is recognized as de jure and does take years in the game engine. I was unaware of the fine points of objectives, classifications, and restrictions on recruitment of the OE. That Japan could not be forced to yield concessions in the homeland but other countries can is a game artifact and there is no substantive reason or rationale why after a decade of occupation, for example, the world could not recognize it as a protectorate or colony no matter what Japan might say in the matter. Hokkaido, for example, not considered Japanese in character until recently.

Also there is the special consideration that it is a key principle of Islamic law that any territory brought under Islam cannot be removed from it. The Afghans are an example of diligence in this matter, fighting foreigners until they leave and then reverting to fighting amongst themselves. So cession of Balkan territories to Austria-Hungary would have to be justified as less evil than subjection to the Greeks.

Also that the OE, and Egypt and Persia, should have claims on everything that the OE has ever held that has fallen out of Muslim control (which of course includes all of Greece).

[nemethand]

Or, to be more honest, I had no problem to give in to your demands, had you earned it in regal play. But this thing had foulplay written all over it from day one. And I presume on your behalf the social and cerebral intelligence to fully understand what you are doing.

So... for the sake of good sportsmanship and fairplay, I am not going to reward this with any concessions whatsoever. No regions, no transfer of money, nothing. I have said all this from day one on several occasions.

This here, with all the foulplay involved, the heavy metagaming in 1877, the insulting and accusing, belongs to the most disgusting gaming experiences of my entire life, in a strategy-gaming enviroment anyways. Your complete oblivience to the content of any of my posts doesnt make it any better.

What outrages me the most is that the outcome of this war could have been scripted when I took over. You already had Kars and Bulgaria in your possession, I would have been glad to exchange Thrace and Batumi for Epiros and Thessalia and couldn't have complained about any border drawn for me there. But you didn't do that. You wanted a good hunt, preferebly against a human. But you had it plotted anyway, even before I took over OE, wich you didn't bother to notify me of. So you gave all the regions that you wanted to earn by warfare back into the hands of the OE. Same as you would release a deer of its transportbox just to shoot it an hour later. You thought that you could, just as always, pop into OE, grab something and be out of it ere lunch.

Now it is not happening and you seem absolutly clueless about how to end this and why I am not giving in to your demands. I have given up hope to come through to you with any distinctive words. Whatever I say, you keep posting the same two phrases, as if I was talking to a bot. "What do you want me to do?" and "When do you start to negotiate?"

I am trying to answer them now in simple words:
"Get the frack out of my country, dude." and "Never."

I have been good sports so far, even when it got lower than low and now I am completely fed up with this.

I am not going to reward you two for trying to cannibalizing other peoples fun for your own amusement.


It is

not going

to happen.



You have totally missed the point when there was still something in it for you. Basically already when didn't bother to negotiate yourself but declared war on me in 1877.


I hope I have made my point clear enough now.






PS: I am also in the comfortable situation that my proceedings fully comply with the houserules as well as with any possible roleplaying aspect. So don't bet your money on a change of conduct here.

PPS: To all you others. There is another reason but my stubborn insistance on the guidelines of fairplay in gaming. Have a look on the map. OE is surrounded by a highly belligerent and expansionistic nation (Russia) on three corners and a mad king in Greece on the forth. It has many built in flaws, like having a capital being objective to another country (Russia), the inabillity to build new units on the european part of your country (including the capital) and the asian part being marked as colonies (making all of them legit for annexation). Thus you have said belligerent nation in the position to legitly annexing your entire country. Wich makes me say:
"The Borg won't stay on deck 11."
I am convinced that those two have the plans for it in the drawer already and now taking quick advantage of the OEs weakness to take positions (like Kars) to make it possible in the future. Before a human player builds up something there that makes this course of actions impossible.

For one last time, I will try to explain things to you. On purpose, I will use clear and strong language, maybe that's only what is understandable.

You certainly disregard facts either for lack or knowledge or on purpose. In the latter case, what you keep on doing is simply lying. This leads us nowhere. If the first case applies, I will try to shed some light, in order to dissolve all your fear of an alleged great and hidden conspiracy to personally demolish and humiliate Citizen X.

That's true that Bulgaria, together with Kars, was transferred to Russia for (i) not attacking Turkey when she could have; and (ii) for helping Turkey and attacking GBR. I would have been extremely happy with this transfer. However, voices were raised that preempting historical events and, thus, confusing a line of scipted events may not be the best course of action in a histrocial wargame.

Thus, I have agreed with Lukas, the then-governor of the Sublime Porte, to terminate our alliance and to have these events for a better? more historical? [replaceable] gameplay.

With Lukas's deemed permission, I am copying a piece of the relevant correspondence, to prove my case - not as if we were in court, anyway:

Code: Select all


 Treaty of Plevna
Lukas Berger <ADDRESS>    2013. február 3. 1:50
Címzett: A II <ADDRESS>
That would be acceptable.

Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 01:21:14 +0100
Subject: Re: Válasz: RE: Treaty of Plevna
From: ADDRESS
To: ADDRESS

I see your point. Even though, I would like to receive sg in exchange for supporting TUR in this war, as opposed to making use of the British attack.

So, turning to economy: How about maintaining the tobacco plantation in Kavala (which I upgraded) and the 2 fields in Kars?

2013/2/1 Lukas Berger <ADDRESS>

    Agree on the NAP but not at all on Kars.

    It's the key to any OE (or Russian) defenses in the east of Turkey. If I'm going to have to fight you, I'm not going to do so without Kars.

    I'd say that either we keep the treaty or I get Kars back. I think it should be an all or nothing deal, really. We either repudiate the treaty in its entirety or we keep it and live with it. I'm willing to go either way. I wouldn't mind getting the territory back and fighting for it without having to deal with GB at the same time but I've also enjoyed working with you and wouldn't mind keeping Russian support and patronage. It's your call on that.

    Subject: Válasz: RE: Treaty of Plevna
    To: luk...
    From: rus...
    Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 16:50:02 +0000


    Ok, but I hope that you will not make a separate deal right now with Jim! :-)

    What I thought of: RUS would retain Kars and Batumi. OE would receive all Bulgaria back. Easy and non-complicated.

    We can have a 2 year NAP, if that makes you feel better :-) (it makes me!)

    What do you think?

    Sent from my BlackBerry
    From: Lukas Berger <ADDRESS>
    Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 10:53:51 -0500
    To: A II<ADDRESS>
    Subject: RE: Treaty of Plevna

    Andras,
    I'd be OK with with this since now I don't have to worry about fighting GB and you at the same time. In fact It'd be my preference, although I didn't intend to bring it up. If we do this route though, I'm getting out of the war asap, in fact will be willing to make a separate peace to do so as I need time to rebuild before 1877. Assuming that's not a problem, I'm in favour of the idea.

    Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:57:11 +0100
    Subject: Treaty of Plevna
    From: rus...
    To: luk...

    Lukas,

    I have had some time to briefly review the Balkan war events, starting from 1877-78. It seems we might indeed miss a lot of fun. :-)

    So, I am ready to denounce the Plevna Treaty. Think it through, see for yourself the events, consider a new GBR administration, and let me know what you think.

    If you say yes, we can work out the details.

    BR, András



When you read carefully, you can see that the date of correspondence is early February this year. Waaaaaaaay before you joined our game.

We simply had no time to implement the deal. Both of us were busy, Lukas then took over AUS. I also corresponded with Sir Garnet about the subject - some copies:

Code: Select all

ADDRESS 2013. március 4. 14:28
Válaszcím: "aku...>
Címzett: A II <ADDRESS>

Someone who can "own" the OE probably needs to make the important decisions and lobby for diplomats, mobilization, and the other things Lukas was working on. Will see what we can do for the now.   

    From: A II <ADDRESS>
    To: "aku...>
    Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 4:33 AM
    Subject: Re: Diplom TUR-RUS Inquiry on past agreements & Austria

       Re: TUR-RUS agreement: what do you propose then? Is either of the previous alternatives acceptable or does the Porte desire a third one? (As per the event file, first date it might fire is Late April 1877, with a 15% probability.)

  [B][U]  We were discussing with Lukas an unconditional NAP by the end of 1877, to allow Turkey enough time to prepare for war.[/U][/B]

    I would suggest that we go for the economic alternative, that is, a restoration of the status quo (this would boost TUR morale, BTW, by the handing over of Kars and Sofia, reducing Russian NM at the same time, so, prolly better be waiting till the Far East war is concluded), with the transfer of the 3 structures to Russia (tobacco in Kavala, tea fields in Kars). Thereby we can terminate the Treaty of Plevna.

    2013/3/1 aku...>

        The Sublime Porte has been thinking on alternatives and though there are many only a few appear at all desirable for whomever resides in Constantinople. 

        A general arrangement between the Russian and Ottoman empires.  Kars is much more important to Ottoman prestige than Sofia, in addition to its resources but peace and security are important as well. The Bulgarians are a combative and restive people, but occupy a critical position within the empire.  It may be that at least a small satellite state for the Bulgarians will satisfy all concerned for 20 years at least.  I don't know what the game events look like, but would like to avoid a war and stabilize the borders for a couple decades even if that means semi-autonomy for Bulgaria.


For your convenience, date: early March

Finally, discussison with the third person being in charge - Joe:

Code: Select all


Joe Tabler <ADDRESS>    2013. március 13. 21:04
Válaszcím: ADDRESS
Címzett: A II <ADDRESS>

Hi BR,

I think I am staying for a while…… I need to read the Treaty of Klevna……..but this is what looks like the better deal to me.

 

I would rather have this option:

or (b) a return to the status quo ante (handing back all regions to Ottoman control) and the (i) 2 tea fields at Kars; and (ii) the tobacco field in Kavala (economic alternative). A NAP for a definite period of time (up to the the end of 1877?) was also discussed, to allow Ottoman preparing for the possible clash.

 

Why the change? And what FUN is about to happen?

Obviously lacking in the history/events coming up, I guess.

Aloha,

Joe t.

 

From: A II [ADDRESS]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:29 AM
To: ADDRESS
Subject: Fwd: Diplom TUR-RUS Inquiry on past agreements & Austria

 

Joe,

I wonder if you are in charge for the Ottos long term.

Anyway, here's my proposal to revoke the Treaty of Plevna, in order to not to miss some fun on and around the Balkans.

Please, kindly review and let me know your views.

BR,

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: A II <ADDRESS>
Date: 2013/2/27
Subject: Re: Diplom TUR-RUS Inquiry on past agreements & Austria
To: "aku...>


Principles of a peace agreement with Austria is reached, as we understand.

Re the Treaty of Plevna, I have discussed with Lukas that for gaming experiences purposes we may consider abolishing most of it. Basically, I can agree to either of the following alternative: (a) Russia keeps Kars and Batumi, everything else (basically Bulgaria) goes back to the Ottos (military alternative); or (b) a return to the status quo ante (handing back all regions to Ottoman control) and the (i) 2 tea fields at Kars; and (ii) the tobacco field in Kavala (economic alternative). A NAP for a definite period of time (up to the the end of 1877?) was also discussed, to allow Ottoman preparing for the possible clash.

How long are you keeping the Ottos? If you are interested in abolishing the Plevna Treaty, we may want to include a third person in our discussion not to appear making a deal for the detriment of Turkey and then you handing it over. >



date: mid March.

Ok. I am taking both (Colombia and OE) for the next game year. Then we will look further.

As the OE is really in the cellar, I request permission for a bit contemplorary playing.


That arrangement ok with everybody?

You taking over the Ottos in May, above thread is from 8 May.

Can we thus conclude that alleging any conspiracy, plotting and the like on my or anyone else's behalf, is complete bull? Therefore, can we return to gaming?

Finally, this war could have been over for at least a year. I wanted Kars - I occupied it. I wnated the Bulgarian areas - I occupied it. I have gained what I had wanted.

And you? You keep on destructing structure, which is only detrimental to you. Fine. I am not in the habit of criticising others' gaming style.

But constantly accusing me without any grounds is something I do not really like. Like I said above, keep on gaming.

Nice reply in the Diplo forum, BTW. I much prefer spending my time reading those then dealing with the stupidest and most incredible stuff sometimes coming up on this part of the forums.

[Kensai]

Scripted events are no excuse to behave like a dick, Kensai. That's someone's individual choice.

Now, you are simply being nasty. I am the last person you should be angry at, both in game and out of it. In game because Russia beats you, not Greece. Out of it cause I honestly inform you on something that might be counterproductive in the long run.

Disagree with Kensasi's novel argument that one is obliged to negotiate away or simple cede territory when overrun, except that it can take many years of occupation before de facto is recognized as de jure and does take years in the game engine. I was unaware of the fine points of objectives, classifications, and restrictions on recruitment of the OE. That Japan could not be forced to yield concessions in the homeland but other countries can is a game artifact and there is no substantive reason or rationale why after a decade of occupation, for example, the world could not recognize it as a protectorate or colony no matter what Japan might say in the matter. Hokkaido, for example, not considered Japanese in character until recently.

Your mileage may vary. Hokkaido was considered Japanese land since the times the Ainu people were subdued, a long time ago, in the early Shogunal era. At least by the same Japanese. But the problem is a technical one: we cannot assess ourselves which regions are considered core and which not simply by looking into history cause we might find other inconsistencies as well. We should trust the game options for that, it acts as a safeguard too.

Also there is the special consideration that it is a key principle of Islamic law that any territory brought under Islam cannot be removed from it. The Afghans are an example of diligence in this matter, fighting foreigners until they leave and then reverting to fighting amongst themselves. So cession of Balkan territories to Austria-Hungary would have to be justified as less evil than subjection to the Greeks.

Again, same problem. Btw, it historically correct for the game and era to portray all Balkan populations unwilling to be part of an "empire" and desire national autonomy.

Also that the OE, and Egypt and Persia, should have claims on everything that the OE has ever held that has fallen out of Muslim control (which of course includes all of Greece).

Reversing the 1828 London Protocol and forcing Greece back to Ottoman annexation must have been unthinkable, even if Greece was completely overrun by the Ottomans back in 1879. Jee, this thing would not have suggested not even by Metternich himself. Absurd for an era that you couldn't even think to start a war without a valid casus belli and claim.

[Jim-NC]

Kensai,

Why did you just throw away your DA with China? I thought that you were going to play the Netherlands as a separate country, not as a slave to Japan. As soon as you get control, you forge a CB, and declare both mobilization options? The Netherlands doesn't even like Japn (relations of -7), but has a DA with China, and relations of 100. If they were truly independent, I think they would side with the nation with which they have a DA, and not a nation of negative relations. However, you volunteered, and thus you can play the country how you see fit.

I just don't understand why you would want to destroy another country as well as Japan, but to each his own I guess.

[Kensai]

First, the in-game relations are "population feelings" not the sovereign's agenda. Your population may hate some nation but you as a ruler feel that that nation is important for your schemes. Second, the ultra good relations with China are an artifact of a white peace. Third, the relations with Japan got sour because of their war with the Americans which was very friendly with Japan a decade ago. Possibly the algorithm counted they were competing for the same objectives, not sure. All this has changed now. Fourth, the master plan is to continue Spinoza's plan in Korea now that the other nations are distracted, something that our other players (if more active) could have been doing as well. Fifth, I have not started any war as Holland, I am simply prepping this country as opportunities arise.

[bjfagan]

Kensai, I am always amazed at how you can justify things. On one hand you want a close historically accurate game and realistic to our time frame, then on the other hand you only want to do whatever the game engine allows. Then as soon as someone does something within the game, you complain that it is not historically accurate. Each case flips back and forth based on what suits you.

Now, after years of friendly relations between Netherlands (while under De_Spinoza and PhilThib) and China, you take over and decide to throw all that out the window as if it never happened. Very "arcade" like I might add.

[Kensai]

Kensai, I am always amazed at how you can justify things. On one hand you want a close historically accurate game and realistic to our time frame, then on the other hand you only want to do whatever the game engine allows. Then as soon as someone does something within the game, you complain that it is not historically accurate. Each case flips back and forth based on what suits you.

Now, after years of friendly relations between Netherlands (while under De_Spinoza and PhilThib) and China, you take over and decide to throw all that out the window as if it never happened. Very "arcade" like I might add.

First, this is the arcade game, arcade stuff happens. Second, I am not doing anything better or worse than what you did with your avatar nation. You took advantage of a war (between USA and Japan) and jumped into. Third, blame Spinoza for his initial agenda with Korea, I am simply playing along as the others are distracted, is this so wrong?

I don't understand what kind of fitting game you prefer: where all avatar nations are "friendly" to follow the friendly proclivities of their players in the forums? Should I call nemethand for a beer here in Germany for an alliance to stick in game as well? Come on. Netherlands does the EXACT same thing Germany did in the game, it takes advantage of a situation. This has nothing to do with me and you. Btw, if Ojodeaguila did not have his real life issues, he would have probably joined in already as well.

Last, I have not started a war... I am simply prepping this avatar nation to take advantage of the geopolitical situation that has erupted. If you recall, Netherlands and USA have been at odds for decades before 1879. If I assess the situation is not fine, I will do nothing. But we shouldn't we entertain this possibility? We should all wars be as convenient as you plan them in the shadows?

[Jim-NC]

First, the in-game relations are "population feelings" not the sovereign's agenda. Your population may hate some nation but you as a ruler feel that that nation is important for your schemes. Second, the ultra good relations with China are an artifact of a white peace. Third, the relations with Japan got sour because of their war with the Americans which was very friendly with Japan a decade ago. Possibly the algorithm counted they were competing for the same objectives, not sure. All this has changed now. Fourth, the master plan is to continue Spinoza's plan in Korea now that the other nations are distracted, something that our other players (if more active) could have been doing as well. Fifth, I have not started any war as Holland, I am simply prepping this country as opportunities arise.

The master plan is you are trying to force another country to declare war to save Japan. You are making the Dutch nation Japan's slaves. Next turn I expect to see a DA from the Netherlands to Japan, and maybe some other country to save yourself.

And bjfagan is correct, you change your story to fit your narrative. What will you do when the Netherlands is occupied? Jump to Mexico? or Belgium? or someone else to try to stop what is happening to Japan?

[Kensai]

That is a great idea, actually. I wish Mexico or Belgium were free or their players responding to diplomacy.

Seriously: no, no DA with Japan, Netherlands desires the same territory as Japan. Second, I have not lost in Japan yet, it would have been sager to open the champagnes when Japan actually falls, not before that.


---
And btw, all, will you freaking finally stop with all these double standards? When Citizen X playes 3 countries, it's ok, when Kensai does it it sucks. When bjfagan takes opportunity of a remote rival in difficulty it's ok, when Kensai does it, he tries to safe his ass. Save WHAT? Turtling has always been my strategy as Japan, this has nothing to do with it. I simply have enough time now that I have lost the initiative in the Far East and I sincerely find it is the best opportunity to act as Netherlands roleplaying an old agenda of another player.

What is this thing? You always seem to desire perfectly coordinated wars, agreed beforehand.

[nemethand]

And btw, all, will you freaking finally stop with all these double standards? When Citizen X playes 3 countries, it's ok, when Kensai does it it sucks.

That's actually true.

[Soulstrider]

That is a great idea, actually. I wish Mexico or Belgium were free or their players responding to diplomacy.

Wait what? I respond to all diplomacy I get and am perfectly active. I just may not seem so since I can't do much right now in my current position.

[lukasberger]

Moved to dip thread.

[coolbean]

That's actually true.

Yes, but the precedent is that secondary nations are for economic development purposes to increase overall resources production.

Nemethand, you said yourself in an e-mail not one hour ago that if Kensai declared war on USA/CHI/GER as the Netherlands he would be breaking house rules.

[coolbean]

That is a great idea, actually. I wish Mexico or Belgium were free or their players responding to diplomacy.

1.) Belgium is a US ally, I would hope they cherish that agreement as much as the U.S. does.

2.) Yes, it's unfortunate they're not free, so you could take them over and declare war on the same people. Kind of like how you stomped your feet when Sagji left and forbade Nemethand and Bjfagan from playing Austria because then they would be one person controlling two countries at war with the same person. You would never do such a thing...

I trust you'll be following your insistence on keeping some semblance of regularity between players. You know, like how when Spinoza's Netherlands ended up becoming friends with China and creating an immensely mutually profitable economic relationship. You know, how the Netherlands even concluded an alliance with China, and came to their aid to liberate Tibet... the Netherlands-China relationship which was continued through PhilThib's Netherlands, when he actively offered ships and material to China to help them fight the Japanese? Instead you spin a web to suit your own personal aims. I am disappointed in you, Kensai. I once had amazing respect for you as a player, but this smacks of immaturity.

[De_Spinoza]

Due to the ever-increasing negativity and cynicism espoused in the context of CiE I have unfortunately been unable to enjoy this game over the past few weeks. Furthermore I am afraid that the paths several players have chosen to follow can only lead to players being voted-out and thus to more associated drama, neither of which I desire to take part in or witness. I sincerely hope you will find a way out of the constant arguments. Nevertheless I have decided to quit CiE for good.

I do wish to stress that the majority of my gaming experience in CiE has been very pleasant and fun. Thanks for the good times!

[coolbean]

Kensai, quick, take over France, cancel the DA with America, and forge CB's!

[Kensai]

Why don't you do it yourself, coolbean? Seriously, you are not simply going to attack Japan only with 5x its forces? That's too low of a sure win ratio.

Take care, Spinoza, see you in the other channels.

1.) Belgium is a US ally, I would hope they cherish that agreement as much as the U.S. does.

The game DAs do not necessarily mean the whole picture. I was at friendly terms with USA and France as well, but nothing stopped them at changing that in a few turns when their opportunity arose to contain Japan with much of hindsight.

2.) Yes, it's unfortunate they're not free, so you could take them over and declare war on the same people. Kind of like how you stomped your feet when Sagji left and forbade Nemethand and Bjfagan from playing Austria because then they would be one person controlling two countries at war with the same person. You would never do such a thing...

Oh, hear hear, some old grudges emerge. Who told you I am gonna ally with Japan? I am simply taking you out of your comfort zone, that's all I am doing. You are very very lucky Ojo could not commit due to his real life issues, otherwise he might have done it himself long time ago, I simply play another country incidentally the avatar USA wronged some time ago.

I trust you'll be following your insistence on keeping some semblance of regularity between players. You know, like how when Spinoza's Netherlands ended up becoming friends with China and creating an immensely mutually profitable economic relationship. You know, how the Netherlands even concluded an alliance with China, and came to their aid to liberate Tibet... the Netherlands-China relationship which was continued through PhilThib's Netherlands, when he actively offered ships and material to China to help them fight the Japanese? Instead you spin a web to suit your own personal aims. I am disappointed in you, Kensai. I once had amazing respect for you as a player, but this smacks of immaturity.

What are my own personal aims, really? Explain. I had dedicated heart and soul in this game, only to see it become a foolish arcade with everything but lasers and nukes. I am continuing to play along, you simply do not want to get out of your comfort zone, that's all. Speaking of friendly terms and profitable economic relationships, Vezina's France had similar with Japan, but it did not stop it to throw everything in the bin just for a quick war. Same applies for the avatar USA.

Last, what respect? You should respect me as a host that I improved the game and as a player that I never cheated you. I don't expect your respect for my avatar's choices. Jee, should I excuse myself for making war with you IN a war game? Anyway, no war has started, but you should better get ready for one if you don't comply to the Netherlands demands. After all, you demanded Netherlands to comply as well a decade ago.

[Soulstrider]

Please people be civil, I avoiding speaking in here since I dislike player drama . But the last thing I want is that after so long this game disbands due to this.

Honestly for me we would just vote in what is causing this major issues, enforce the results and get over with it, I don't want the tempers to escalate more.

[coolbean]

Why don't you do it yourself, coolbean? Seriously, you are not simply going to attack Japan only with 5x its forces? That's too low of a sure win ratio.

Take care, Spinoza, see you in the other channels.

The USA and Japan are equal in power rankings (Japan used to be higher than the USA). The USA only ever demanded white peace.

This is your doing, I hope you're happy. Spinoza is an amazing player.

[Kensai]

So now it's my fault for Spinoza leaving, right? That's something only Spinoza can respond...

Regarding the avatar differences, we shall solve them in the game.

[coolbean]

So now it's my fault for Spinoza leaving, right? That's something only Spinoza can respond...

Regarding the avatar differences, we shall solve them in the game.

Spinoza has too much class to say so in here.

[coolbean]

Unfortunately, I have been feeling the same as De_Spinoza this past week. I've run out of reasons to continue, and will have to bow out.

I will not become heated up about a game like this, and do not enjoy having arguments over something as dumb as a video game.

I want to let everyone know I've had an amazing time overall playing this game with you, and am depressed that I won't be able to continue. I would only consider returning if there were some serious changes. This simply isn't the game I joined so long ago, and have lost interest in keeping it up - I don't have the time to justify playing a game so broken in leadership and playing style.

I have told myself not to leave because of the commitments I've already made to other nations, and that is why I would have to say that I am especially sorry to Jonathan, as a player I've had an amazing time playing with you, and as the USA I hope someone serious will step in and continue. As the USA I have to say thank you to the players who play US allies and have already committed to helping the US if they fell under attack.

To those of you who are playing WiC, I will see you over there. To everybody else, good luck, I hope you step up and fix the game, because there will be no pride in anything accomplished in this game anymore if this playing style continues.

[Citizen X]

I would like this script to be run next turn. Actually it must be run two times because there's two fleets being bought but I can't adress them individually to fix the autoupgrade of the models.

Code: Select all

[font=arial]SelectFaction = $TUR
SelectRegion = $Antalya

StartEvent = Portuguese ships for the Ottoman Empire|1|1|NULL|NULL|$Antalya|NULL

Actions
SelectFaction = $POR
  ChangeResStock = $merMoney;15
  SelectSubUnits = Region $Antalya;FactionTags POR;Domains $Naval
  AlterCuSubUnit = ApplytoList;Kill
SelectFaction = $TUR
ChangeResStock = $merMoney;-15
SelectRegion = $Antalya
 CreateGroup
  Posture = $Defensive
  SetKind = $Nav
  Entranch = 0
  FixType = 1
  SetName = Transports1
  Apply
  CreateUnit
  SetType = $uni_TUR_Tra2
  SUFlavorName = T01|T02|T03|T04|T05|T06|T07|T08
  SetLevel = 3
  Apply
  SelectSubUnits = Region $Antalya;OnlyFixed
  AlterCuSubUnit = ApplyToList;probability 100;Attempts 4;Convert $mdl_TUR_TR01
EndEvent[/font]