[PON] Conflict in Europe - General Thread

[Jonathan Pollard]

500 in state funds has been agreed upon as the price to be paid for the Swedish ships delivered to China. And yes, I know about the transport capacity of the junks which is why I was thinking about building them. I believe that they can also perform blockades just as effectively as dreadnaughts provided they are not challenged.

[Sir Garnet]

The line Apply is not needed and must be removed. It should be the one that cause the crash. Apply is needed when a unit or stack is created by Event.

Thanks! I did not know that nuance and it fixes the problem I was having.


From the nature of the conversation here about ship transfers, do I assume correctly that there is no way known yet to avoid the "auto upgrade" effect on recreating them?

[bjfagan]

Early July 1878

[Sir Garnet]

Background: Finishing this script is made possible only by running the game on a machine that is only a few years old and doesn't take forever. It has been tested to my exhaustion and beyond frustration - for which reason I separated it out from the other Dutch peace scripts which involve further issues on colonial structures and territory with which I need more help (there are so many little things that are critical, which is why examples of actual in-PON working scripts are important). As described much earlier in General, it replaces the fleets lost to "landlocked" status effective upon peace kicking in. These fleets were those which had loaded troops and were ordered to sail from Java the same turn that peace kicked in (the Netherlands was in a hurry-my advice is to evacuate before resolving peace). I believe this is an IsMajor=0 passage bug, but have no idea whether laden fleets would have the same or other problems in other circumstances.

Marshal 3*** Osorio was lost with his experience and added skills. He respawned through the engine as a fresh 2** but since then another Marshal has been created by the engine so I removed the Osorio part of the replacement script. Historically he was a leading figure through the Empire. The 7 transports in the recreated lost fleet were respawned by the engine as larger transports so I am dropping 3 of those and respawning only 4. Also there are 2 Wooden Screw Battleship units that would upgrade as Ironclads on respawn and 3 Ironclad Corvette units that would upgrade to Light Cruisers. My resolution for that is to only respawn 2 of the corvettes, which as CL will together have lower resources costs and combat power than the lost shipping and I have set Exp to 1 rather than the 2 stars of a fresh-built CL. There is also a State Funds deduction for maintenance costs in the interim which is about 3000 for the whole lost fleet based on the drop in maintenance when the fleet was lost and rounded up to 3500 State Funds.

FYI In testing the script error report I also got script error popups for the EndEvent lines for the POR BRZ ARG CHL PEU subparts of evt_nam_CMN_MinorNations_ShipyardsProdCatchupEvent|1|1|NULL|NULL|$Anglia|NULL.

Code: Select all

StartEvent = evt_nam_CMN_Brazil-Neth_Peace_Part_3_Respawn Peace Bug Lost Transport Fleet|1|1|NULL|NULL|$Rio de Janeiro|NULL
Actions
SelectFaction = $BRZ
SelectRegion = $Manaus
SelUnqUnit = 6o Esc. fragatas;RestrictFac
MoveUnit = $Belem

SelectFaction = $BRZ
ChangeResStock = $merMoney;-3500
SelectFaction = BRZ
SelectRegion = $Rio de Janeiro
CreateGroup
Posture = $Defensive
SetKind = $Nav
Entranch = 0
InCS = 0
FixType = 0
SetName = Java Fleets
Apply

CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_BRZ_War3 //Ironclad 60MLRgun 2212
SUFlavorName = Riachuelo|Aquidaban|Marshal Deodoro|Marshal Fioriano
SetLevel = 2
SetName = 6o Esc. de Batalla
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_BRZ_War3 //No name Ironclad 60MLRgun 2111
SetLevel = 1
SetName = 9o Esc. de Batalla
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_BRZ_War3 //No name Ironclad 60MLRgun 2221
SetLevel = 2
SetName = 8o Esc. de Batalla
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_BRZ_Frg3 //(30gun MLR) 1860-1875 *
SetLevel = 1
SetName = 4o Esc. Fragatas
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_BRZ_Frg3 //(30gun MLR) 1860-1875 *
SUFlavorName = Amazona|Paraense|Beberibe|Dona Francisca
SetLevel = 1
SetName = 5o Esc. Fragatas
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_BRZ_Rec3 //20 gn MLR
SUFLavorname = Afonso|Maria Isabel|Santa Cruz|Viamao
SetLevel = 1
SetName = 4o Esc. ligera 
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_BRZ_Rec3
SUFlavorname = Rio Grande do Sul|Dom Afonso|Dom Pedro|Dom Pedro II
SetLevel = 1
SetName = Esc do Sul
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_BRZ_Tra3
SetLevel = 1
SetName = 5o Esc. transporte
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_BRZ_Tra3
SetLevel = 1
SetName = 6o Esc. transporte
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_BRZ_Tra3
SUFlavorname = Cisne|Princessa de Brazil|Thetis|Torta|Venus|Active|San Antonio e Asia Felis|Andorinha
SetLevel = 2
SetName = 3o Esc. transporte
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_BRZ_Tra3
SUFlavorname = Real Fonsor|Conceicao|Principe Real|Vasco de Gama|Portugal|Lisboa|Oporto|Algarve
SetLevel = 1
SetName = 4o Esc. transporte
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

SelectFaction = BRZ
SelectRegion = $Rio de Janeiro
CreateGroup
  Posture = $Defensive
  SetKind = $Land
  Entranch = 1
  InCS = 1
  FixType = 0
  SetName = Army of Java
  Apply

CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_BRZ_Inf_1870_Div //2232
SUFlavorName = Rgtos. 1°, 2° e 3° de Infanteria|Rgtos. 4°, 5° e 6° de Infanteria|7°, 8° e 9° de Infanteria|10°, 11° e 12 de Infanteria|Rgto. de Art. N°2
SetLevel = 2
SetName = 1a Division 
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_BRZ_Inf_1870_Div
SUFLavorName = Rgtos. 46°, 47° e 48° de Infanteria|Rgtos. 43°, 44° e 45° de Infanteria|Rgtos. 40°, 41° e 42° de Infanteria|Rgtos. 37°, 38° e 39° de Infanteria|Rgto. de Art. N°3
SetLevel = 2
SetName = 2a Division 
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_BRZ_Inf_1870M_Div
SUFLavorName = Corpos 34°, 35° e 36° de Guardia|Corpos 37°, 38° e 39° de Guardia|Corpos 40°, 41° e 42° de Guardia|Corpos 43°, 44° e 45° de Guardia|Rgto. de Art. N°4
SetLevel = 2
SetName = 5° Corpo de Exercito
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_BRZ_Art_1850 
SUFlavorname = 7° Bato. de Rgto. de Art. N°4|8° Bato. de Rgto. de Art. N°4
SetLevel = 2
SetName = 6o Rgto. Art.
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_BRZ_Art_1850 
SUFlavorname = 1° Bato. de Rgto. de Art. N°2|2° Bato. de Rgto. de Art. N°2
SetLevel = 2
SetName = 3o Rgto. Art.
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_BRZ_Art_1850S 
SUFlavorname = 3° Bato. de Rgto. de Art. N°5|4° Bato. de Rgto. de Art. N°5
SetLevel = 2
SetName = 1o Art. Pesada
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

CreateUnit
SetType = $$uni_BRZ_Sup_Sup1
SUFLavorName = 1 Cia. RTransp N°1|2 Cia. RTransp N°1|3 Cia. RTransp N°1|4 Cia. RTransp N°1
SetLevel = 2
SetName = Regto. de Transportes N°1
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

CreateUnit
SetType = $$uni_BRZ_Sup_Sup1
SUFLavorName = 1 Cia. RTransp N°2|2 Cia. RTransp N°2|3 Cia. RTransp N°2|4 Cia. RTransp N°2
SetLevel = 2
SetName = Regt. de Transportes N°2 //Name added
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

Create Unit
SetType = $uni_BRZ_Inf_1850N_Bde
SUFlavorname = Corpos 58°, 59° e 60° de Guardia|Corpos 61°, 62° e 63° de Guardia
SetLevel = 2
SetName = 4° Divisao
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

Create Unit
SetType = $uni_BRZ_Cav_1870_Bde
SUFlavorname = Rgtos. 3° e 4° de Cav. de Linha|Rgtos. 7° e 8° de Cav. de Linha
SetLevel = 2
SetName = 3° Divisao de Cavalaria
Apply
SetHealth = 100
SetCohesion = 50

EndEvent

[Savoyard]

Question to China regarding those lost chips and the replacement of them with newer models: how did that all work?

[Jonathan Pollard]

It seems to have worked out fine. I think my units on the ground were being upgraded with advanced weaponry as a result of receiving replacements. I have two-star native regulars that had attack and defense statistics of 15/17 at the 1850 start of the game now at 15/22. And I now have cavalry units that officially have no firearms but stats of 14/21 and a range of one.

[Kensai]

Sir Garnet, is your event ready (tested)? The abstraction is not perfect, not your fault actually given the autoupgrade, but considering you are not at war I think it could be ok to run it. But before we do this, you need to give us an account of the open issue of force pools. Could you run a "change pool" script by 0 so we could see what each nation in South America has?

Btw, for all of you to know in the future: lost units because of peace in a foreign land too far away from friendly land is normal and WAD. Take this into account when you vie for peace. Ships should be in open sea as well, much more secure.

[Jonathan Pollard]

What about the sale of ships by Sweden to China, am I expected to write the script for that myself?

[Boernes]

Just use the script that was prepared for the ship transfer between CHI and USA. Let me just quickly fiddle together something here

[Boernes]

That should in theory do it. All you'd have to do if you want is to change the names of the units

Code: Select all


SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Canton

SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Canton
StartEvent = SWE transfers warships to China|1|1|NULL|NULL|$Canton|NULL

Conditions
MinDate = 1878/01/01
MaxDate = 1899/12/31

Actions

SelectFaction = $SWE
SelectRegion = $Canton
ChangeResStock = $merMoney;500
ChangeResStock = $merOfficer;8
ChangeResStock = $merConscript;16
SelectSubUnits = Region $Canton;FactionTags SWE;Domains $Naval;Families $famLightWarship $famTransportShip
AlterCuSubUnit = ApplytoList;Kill

SelectFaction = $CHI
  ChangeResStock = $merMoney;-500
ChangeResStock = $merOfficer;-8
ChangeResStock = $merConscript;-16
SelectRegion = $Canton



SelectFaction = $CHI
SelectRegion = $Canton
CreateGroup
Posture = $Defensive
SetKind = $Nav
Entranch = 0
FixType = 0
SetName = Quangdong Jiandui
Apply

CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_CHI_Rec3
SetLevel = 3
SetName = 1st Scouting Division
Apply
CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_CHI_Rec3
SetLevel = 3
SetName = 2nd Scouting Division
Apply
CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_CHI_Tra3
SetLevel = 3
SetName = 1st Transport Division
Apply
CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_CHI_Tra3
SetLevel = 3
SetName = 2nd Transport Division
Apply

EndEvent


[Jonathan Pollard]

Thanks Boernes, I think you forgot to give yourself the 500 state money that I promised you. I don't care about the names of the units.

[Boernes]

Thanks Boernes, I think you forgot to give yourself the 500 state money that I promised you. I don't care about the names of the units.

Yeah, I realised it when I checked the script for the Dutch-Chinese transfer, also that I forgot to end the event ... my my, I think I'm getting a bit rusty ^^

[Sir Garnet]

Sir Garnet, is your event ready (tested)?

Over and over - Bohemond's tip regarding "Apply" usage was an important step forward.

But before we do this, you need to give us an account of the open issue of force pools. Could you run a "change pool" script by 0 so we could see what each nation in South America has?

If you have the exact template and tell me where to find the results I could try that but otherwise I have no idea of how to implement it. It would be quicker to run it yourself, and a global force pool report on all significant countries would be interesting and useful info since Brazil's was benchmarked in game terms mainly by info re Spain, Netherlands and Portugal.
Since these are pre-existing units - actually fewer than there were, they are within the pool level.

P.S. Land unit force pools would also be interesting.

Btw, for all of you to know in the future: lost units because of peace in a foreign land too far away from friendly land is normal and WAD. Take this into account when you vie for peace. Ships should be in open sea as well, much more secure.

Between teleportation and time to march out after peace, I see good points either way and the game has done it several ways. Right now it is teleportation. For the Dutch peace, units in Java on land were teleported around the world to Brazil - into the Amazon, to be exact - the one frigate previously in port was thrown upriver in the Amazon to Manaus where it could not move and the land troops into a couple of regions deep in the undiscovered rain forest. It was a heroic operation to send supply wagons and troops through the Guyanas and up the Amazon into the darkness to keep them supplied enough to avoid perishing as they struggled out.

The units that were lost were the fleets that had any embarked troops and were in port when the turn on which peace occurred began (before they could move out). So it is an embarked troops issue.

[Kensai]

Late July 1878

[Jonathan Pollard]

I didn't get any Swedish ships. Was there a problem with the script or maybe there was not enough time to test it?

[Kensai]

Argh, was already late yesterday and did not have enough time to test it. If it works, we should add it tonight.

Early August 1878

[Kensai]

Citizen X, are you preplaying turns with my orders inside?
It is amazing how well coordinated your actions were these last two turns. Too many to be simply a coincidence: I am rather curious, how did you know that this was the exact turn I would abandon Thessaloniki to attack it? how did you know I would move my fleet in the Ionian sea (of all sea regions)? I was already curious on your previous landing assault on Athens which was risky as hell considering that could have died completely.

I cannot prove it or not if you do it, but if you do it know it's uncool. You don't want me to become paranoid and submit orders on 20:59:59...

---
[color="#FF0000"][Above part of this POST and Following Posts on this Topic Moved from Diplomacy and News Thread][/color]

[Citizen X]

Citizen X, are you preplaying turns with my orders inside?
It is amazing how well coordinated your actions were these last two turns. Too many to be simply a coincidence: I am rather curious, how did you know that this was the exact turn I would abandon Thessaloniki to attack it? how did you know I would move my fleet in the Ionian sea (of all sea regions)? I was already curious on your previous landing assault on Athens which was risky as hell considering that could have died completely.

I cannot prove it or not if you do it, but if you do it know it's uncool. You don't want me to become paranoid and submit orders on 20:59:59...

I would rather have questions as these asked via email or PM next time, please. The Greek as opponent I have already stroken through on the list to be honest. My mind is so set on the Russians that merely you get in the way incidently. I am simply not a novice in ageod games or strategy games at all. I am perfectly willing for war diary party after this war is over. Are you? Then I gonna explain why up to here (war is not over yet) you oh so totally screwed it up by yourself. No Ottomans involved (well, almost).

One secret I am revealing here in public, though. Look carefully at all your posts of the past days.


Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand... isn't that your dropbox? I don't know it, but don't one get download statistics for the files? Plus, you resolve the turns right? You don't have to put in the Greek turns at all, technically.


This poor try to make me deliberately reveal my dispositions leaves my aghast.

[coolbean]

Citizen X, are you preplaying turns with my orders inside?

That's a pretty serious accusation.

[Kensai]

If you mean the pic I placed, that pic does not show what Athens had inside. The accusation is serious, because the suspicion is serious. Either you are incredibly stupid in your moves or incredibly brave (after all, they are sides of the same coin), but in this game attacking an unbreached fortress is more or less suicide, unless you know you have an overwhelming army which clearly you didn't. Or you know the fortresses are empty. I wouldn't pay attention, normally, as I do not care, but the streak of lucky assaults really puzzled me, combined with surgical moves of your fleet when you know the Russian fleet can eat you for breakfast.

Anyway, no more allegations, I will put my theory on test. I will be submitting orders late or even better early and then change them before deadline, if your strategy was genuine your lucky streak will continue and I will give you my congratulations. If not, well, whatever. Just to be totally clear with you, the Ottos beating the Greeks in a potential 1878 conflict is perfectly normal: it is how surgically (exploiting every possible weakness of my defense, including army-fleet movements you couldn't know) it happened that baffles me.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand... isn't that your dropbox? I don't know it, but don't one get download statistics for the files? Plus, you resolve the turns right? You don't have to put in the Greek turns at all, technically.

I never process with orders different than those I have submitted. Be my guest and test every single order I have submitted in the past and pay attention to movements, stances, everything. And I usually submit first.

[Citizen X]

If you mean the pic I placed, that pic does not show what Athens had inside. The accusation is serious, because the suspicion is serious. Either you are incredibly stupid in your moves or incredibly brave (after all, they are sides of the same coin), but in this game attacking an unbreached fortress is more or less suicide, unless you know you have an overwhelming army which clearly you didn't. Or you know the fortresses are empty. I wouldn't pay attention, normally, as I do not care, but the streak of lucky assaults really puzzled me, combined with surgical moves of your fleet when you know the Russian fleet can eat you for breakfast.

Anyway, no more allegations, I will put my theory on test. I will be submitting orders late or even better early and then change them before deadline, if your strategy was genuine your lucky streak will continue and I will give you my congratulations. If not, well, whatever. Just to be totally clear with you, the Ottos beating the Greeks in a potential 1878 conflict is perfectly normal: it is how surgically (exploiting every possible weakness of my defense, including army-fleet movements you couldn't know) it happened that baffles me.


I never process with orders different than those I have submitted. Be my guest and test every single order I have submitted in the past and pay attention to movements, stances, everything. And I usually submit first.

I couldnt care less.

[Citizen X]

I am perfectly willing to let a neutral party my current password, so that a look at the last turns I made shows that there are no surgical strikes involved, and indeed no caring about the wearabouts of the Greek army at all. perfectly caring for my own strategy.

I simply outwhitted you.

And you are a sore loser.

Sir.

[Savoyard]

Sounds like a duel to me! Someone fetch a notary and my pistol!

[Kensai]

There is nothing wrong in losing fair and square. As I said, I did not involve my avatar nation in this war to march my armies to Constantinople, that would have been insane. You could have singlehandedly defeated Greece even in a frontal attack, nonetheless taking the necessary toll in casualties. At least I expected that.

However, what happened here these past two turns goes beyond "wits", your movements were simply too stupid* to be true, unless you knew somehow what you were expecting. Indeed after the war is over I would personally like to survey what you were seeing from your side. This last turn especially was really incredible. We should swap passwords after the conflict.

*"stupid" is used as technical term here: I'm implying movements that were too risky to be considered intelligent (no exit policy, being cut off, possibility of losing completely your army, having all your ships sunk, etc) and by a sheer chance all remarkably well coordinated to succeed in a row

[bjfagan]

There is nothing wrong in losing fair and square. As I said, I did not involve my avatar nation in this war to march my armies to Constantinople, that would have been insane. You could have singlehandedly defeated Greece even in a frontal attack, nonetheless taking the necessary toll in casualties. At least I expected that.

However, what happened here these past two turns goes beyond "wits", your movements were simply too stupid* to be true, unless you knew somehow what you were expecting. Indeed after the war is over I would personally like to survey what you were seeing from your side. This last turn especially was really incredible. We should swap passwords after the conflict.

*"stupid" is used as technical term here: I'm implying movements that were too risky to be considered intelligent (no exit policy, being cut off, possibility of losing completely your army, having all your ships sunk, etc) and by a sheer chance all remarkably well coordinated to succeed in a row

Kind of like a mad dash through Belgium? Or Whollaborg-esque sending troops in all directions to attack?

[Kensai]

Kind of attacking the right region at the right turn (exactly!! a turn before or after would have spelt disaster) with the right amount of troops (no overwhelming forces) and no (afaik) reconnaissance whatsoever. For one turn I can get it, but for many in a row it is puzzling. This last turn was so perfectly executed it was surreal.

Anyway, we will see what will happen these following turns.

[Lindi]

Just for know lukasberger play always Austria or not? Because the peace and the treaty included Venezia back to Italy, so I need to know =).

[Jonathan Pollard]

There was a problem with the transfer of ships from Sweden. Both of the transport units ended up as Chinese ironclad corvette units. I hope there is a fix for this, if not you can kill those units and give two transport units to the USA. I'll put both of them into their own fleet if that will make them easier to kill.

[Sir Garnet]

There was a problem with the transfer of ships from Sweden. Both of the transport units ended up as Chinese ironclad corvette units. I hope there is a fix for this, if not you can kill those units and give two transport units to the USA. I'll put both of them into their own fleet if that will make them easier to kill.

I believe that the auto-upgrade to Ironclad kicks in if you have the predecessor techs to actually building particular Ironclad classes.

======


@Lindi: Austria has been played by various players in turn, Lukasberger only recently. I expect he checks diplomacy each turn, but it is always helpful to email in advance of any diplomatic action.

[lukasberger]

Just for know lukasberger play always Austria or not? Because the peace and the treaty included Venezia back to Italy, so I need to know =).

Yes. You need to get Venezia back. I'm not trying to hang onto it, just haven't made the script yet. Have no time to do so.

In fact I have so little time I'm considering quitting the game.

Can you make the script? If so we can run it immediately.