[PON] Conflict in Europe - Diplomacy & News Thread

[Jonathan Pollard]

時事月報 (Current Affairs Monthly) March 1878

JAPS SMASHED AT BEIJING

The Chinese forces in the Beijing area have struck a decisive blow against the Jap invaders, hurling them back in disorder. All of Baoding province has returned to Chinese control. The Japs suffered the loss of nearly 80,000 men and over 20,000 horses. And for the first time in this conflict, the Japs are surrendering in droves. Over 21,000 prisoners were taken, many of them newly-conscripted teenagers with little desire to die on foreign soil for their "God-Emperor." Two entire field artillery regiments were captured and their advanced guns are now being used by our forces for liberation instead of subjugation. The Empress has proclaimed a day of public rejoicing and celebration, not only for the victory against the Japs but also the victories against the Taiping fanatics whose days are numbered. The Empress has also met with the Swedish ambassador who expressed strong support for the Chinese cause.

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A captured Japanese artillery piece

[Kensai]

Sir Garnet, what did the poor Apache do to Brazil to deserve a declaration of war?!
(don't tell me it's again to land on a country you are not allowed to)

---

Island of Hainan, Late March 1878

JAPANESE FORCES LAND AGAIN ON THE ISLAND OF HAINAN

Make sort work of the rival forces although there is word that more Chinese defenders are inbound. We were ousted the last time, but now we have opened a second front and a third is on the works. Although we don't recognize the heretic Taiping Heavenly Kingdom, we acknowledge their "helping work" in the Southern Chinese provinces. China cannot possibly defend all regions at once.

So unfortunate that Empress Cixi does not come to terms...

[Jonathan Pollard]

時事月報 (Current Affairs Monthly) April 1878

US CONGRESS TO VOTE ON WAR DECLARATION AGAINST JAPAN

The US ambassador has informed us that the US Congress is scheduled to vote on a declaration of war against Japan later this week. It is expected to pass overwhelmingly in light of the recent atrocity committed by Japan. The ultimate defeat of Japan and salvation of China is now assured. The US Asiatic Fleet anchored at Canton stands ready to annihilate the Jap navy. US ground forces already in China are preparing to assist the Chinese counteroffensive to drive the Japs from the Chinese mainland. The Chinese Empire is prepared to cooperate with the USA to the fullest in the defeat of the aggressors.

Apparently out of frustration at their failure to take Beijing, the Japs have landed on Hainan and assaulted the fortress there. Our troops beat back the attack and inflicted thousands of casualties upon the invaders. The arrival of Chinese reinforcements will seal the fate of this invasion of Hainan as happened to the previous Jap invasion of that island.

No significant actions took place on the Tianjin front as the Chinese paused to regroup and resupply their massive forces. Several skirmishes with Taiping rebels were reported, all with a positive result. Admiral Wu Ankang, in command of Chinese surface raiders in the South China Sea, reported sinking a Jap merchant ship.

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[coolbean]

PRESIDENT HAYES ANNOUNCES A STATE OF WAR WITH JAPAN

"Japan has invaded a declared ally of the United States of America... belligerently laying siege and occupying its sovereign national territory... America will not abandon the Chinese in their time of need - we will honor our defensive alliance and help them repel this invader."

President Hayes addresses crowds in Washington, D.C.

[Kensai]

Tokyo, Japan, April 1878

THE DECLARATION OF WAR FROM USA AND THE BATTLES OF TIANJIN

The USA finally came out. We understood they were no friends of Japan when they decided not to back us up in the previous war against Prussia and Russia, even though President Lincoln had promised to support us in times of need. So be it. The Americans have already experienced the Japanese wrath in the straight of Formosa where the Japanese fleet managed to sink 8 corvettes and 6 frigates before retreating without exposing itself anymore and, most importantly, without losing any ships of the modern fleet.

In other news, the Chinese hordes managed to shake us from Tianjin, but not before delivering them the usual 2-3x extra casualties. In Hainan, a Chinese counterattack was swiftly repulsed. Nonetheless, the entrance of the USA in this war means we need to change strategy and goals. It begins!

[Jonathan Pollard]

時事月報 (Current Affairs Monthly) April 1878

JAPS ROUTED AT TIANJIN

Over half a million Chinese troops have routed the Japs in three decisive battles that have pushed the Japs back into the fortress walls of Tianjin. The Japs lost over 150,000 men, nearly 30,000 horses, and 274 cannons. 58,800 prisoners were taken during the rout. An entire cavalry corps made up of Koreans forced to fight for the Japanese has deserted and will now fight alongside the Chinese to liberate their brethren. The defense ministry also reported that "While taking Palikao Fortifications, we managed to capture 9 supply carts and 10 crates of ammunition." [OOC - My map shows the Tianjin fortifications as still under Japanese control, with the province under 95% Chinese military control.]

It has been learned that Arimoto, the Japanese commander in charge of the Jap forces now defending Tianjin, has been promoted to the rank of Field Marshal. Whether this promotion will have any effect on the hopeless situation of the Jap remnants holding out at Tianjin remains to be seen.

Elsewhere, the defenders of Hainan repulsed another assault by the Japs. Mopping up operations continue to proceed successfully against the Taiping traitors. US ground forces, already in China, are expected to join the Chinese soon in clearing China from the Jap vermin.
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Defeated Japanese surrender to Chinese troops

[Jonathan Pollard]

Aritomo, the highest Field Marshal of the Japanese Imperial Army has indeed landed on mainland China, but his contribution in this battle was simply that of Commander-in-Chief and (possibly) marching-at-the-sound-of-guns.

Historically Arimoto was not promoted to the rank of Field Marshal until after the end of the Sino-Japanese war. But I suppose you have the right to promote him any time you want to. You can set a precident for a future promotion to the rank of Field Marshal in a similarly hopeless situation circa January 1943

[Kensai]

In our alternate reality Aritomo has contributed a lot in previous engagements, therefore his promotion. What helpless situation?

If these are defeats, then they are more than welcome! The truth the Chinese High Command will never show you. The atrocious destruction on their land (loss of growth rate on their many pillaged regions), the huge casualties and lost equipment. This is gonna be a long war and the Western powers involved have no exit policy. We shall prevail even in defeat!

Japanese Ministry of Propaganda

[Kensai]

Athens, Greece, April 1878

GREECE LIBERATES TIRANA AND SKOPJE

The Greek Royal Army has reached the provinces of Albania and Macedonia, liberating them both after completely overcoming their Ottoman defenses. We have hopes that we will soon shake hands with the Bulgarians and Russians, as the Sultan's armies depart from the Balkans.

[nemethand]

Ottoman saboteurs target Russian officials!

Even though the war between Russia and the Ottomans are rather flowing slowly and silently, Turkish financed territorists target Russian subjects or Russian soil. Thank God Almighty their work is without affect.

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Meanwhile, Grigory Butakov scored a victory against Turkish vessels on the Aegean Sea, near the Cyclades.

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Istanbul, Derâliye, February 1878

War Bulletin No 2

The Sublime Porte advises the public, that his Imperial Majesty, Sultan Abdulhamt II., and His Royal Highness Alexander I. have come to terms. They negotiated immediate peace. Alexander I. shall be allowed to govern Sofia as Viceroy of the Ottoman Empire and may carry the title as King of Bulgaria and be free to governe the city of Sofia as he so pleases. In return he will pay a lease of £ 3 per year. He declares himself saturated, thus no other cities are given under his rule.
King Alexander and Sultan Abdulhamit equally ask the Russians to seize hostilities, as the main wargoal has now been reached.

The creation of a puppet province in and around Sofia is not an independent and fully accepted Bulgaria, which His Imperial Majesty is determined achieved. People on the Balkan loyal to a cause different from the Ottoman should be allowed to live under a different rule.

We understand that Alexander I of Bulgaria has been brought under undue influence by the Sublime Port; consequently, the Balkan War will not be finished until Bulgaria comprises all the Bulgarian subjects.

Ottomans in the Caucasus!

An army under Osman Nüri Pasha has broken into Russia and have occupied Kutais! Locals flee the regions and the public demand immediate action by the General Staff to repel the invaders!

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[Kensai]

Thessaloniki, Greece, April 1878

THESSALONIKI UNDER SIEGE

The Royal Greek Army under Lieutenant General Petimezas has reached the city of Thessaloniki and is laying siege. Petimezas is a well known tactician, extremely well qualified in sieges*. Heavy howitzers have also been brought in to speed up the destruction of the defensive works. Thessaloniki is a well fortified city, extremely important for our cause. We are buffled by the destruction of all regions we have reached so far, the Ottomans have destroyed all the economical structures. It is ok with us, all this will be added in the "final bill" when we and our Russian brethren are finally victorious.

(OOC: *has the siege ability, add to that siege artillery and it should be quite effective)



---

Tianjin, China, April 1878

THE PORT CITY OF TIANJIN RESISTS AN IMPRESSIVE ASSAULT

The Chinese assaulted the almost intact fortress of Tianjin to get the final Japanese defenders who have not already departed. It was an ill considered assault, we managed to give them again atrocious casualties, but this was probably the last fortnight the city was under Japanese flag. Before we depart, though, sappers will set demolition charges to the depots and coaling station. We have also ordered the poisoning of the sericulturist plantations of the region, excluding the Brazilian property, obviously.

In other news, the Hainan expeditionary force once more bounced the Chinese reinforcements. All Japanese Generals, including the ones wounded in battle, are alive and well, ready to take part in the great coming clash with the Americans.

[Jonathan Pollard]

時事月報 (Current Affairs Monthly) April 1878

CHINESE BREACH TIANJIN'S DEFENSES

The Chinese forces under General Ma have breached the defenses of Tianjin and are mopping up a stubborn pocket of about 23,000 Japs still holding out in the city. The presence of eight Jap ironclad battleships and other warships in the harbor is contributing to the difficulty in eradicating this last vestige of Japan's failed attempt to take Beijing. Outrageous Jap claims of high Chinese casualties have been refuted by international observers, who report that the Japs are suffering about six times the casualties that they inflict on the Chinese.

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Elsewhere, progress continues against the weakening Taiping rebels, and Hainan continues to hold out against fruitless Jap attacks.

[Kensai]

My God, Jonathan, you are the best propaganda player I have ever come across!! It looks as if we are playing different games as both of us present only the "best" results of each fortnight. This is great stuff for the ongoing AAR this diplomacy thread has become!

(technical explanation: I seriously doubt ships or coastal artillery contribute to land battles, although admittedly that would be cool... I wish Pocus could add this functionality in a future patch)

---

Open letter to the Sultan,

with the Greek Armed Forces reaching and entrenching in the West side of river Vardar*, we have effectively reached Bulgarian King Simeon's forces in nearby free Sofia. The Southward thrust of the Russian Imperial Army has further cut the Ottoman forces from pushing their supplies to the now cut off Western Ottoman provinces. Of course there is always the potential sea route** to provide few supplies to those regions, but the command of the seas by the Russian Navy, that will soon be over too. Is the Sultan certain that he doesn't want to end this conflict now and provide the limited freedom the Balkan people require? After all, when this war is over, the Sultan can win the hearts and minds of the new Bulgarian state through decent diplomacy, who knows, perhaps even gain them as allies. The time has come for the Sultan to allow the people of the Balkans (including Greece, Serbia, and Montenegro) some extra breathing space.

Greek High Command

*actually the map must be wrong, it should be Strymon, I know as my home town Thessaloniki is nearby
**technical explanation: supplies seem to propagate through coastal regions and MTBs as well, so as long as one has enough trade/transport ships in MTBs or a relatively short coastal connection to the forward theater, supplies should pass...

[Citizen X]

[INDENT] Istanbul, Derâliye, April 1878

War Bulletin No 3

The Sublime Porte advises the public, that that the fortress of Kutais in the Caucasus has fallen to the hands of General Osman Nuri Pasha. We shall commence our march towards the heartland of the enemy to threaten the army of the occupants in their back.
This decision wasn't taken lightly as we had hoped till the last minute, that the bloodshed could be avoided. We have sent dispatch after dispatch to the Czar, making indeed honorable, reasonable and generous offers. Yet even after his supposed wargoal number one, the forming of a free Bulgarian state had been fulfilled as the rightful sovereign of Bulgaria, King Alexander had wished, we recieved notes of the following content:

"We must respectfully reject your last counteroffer. The formation of an independent Bulgaria as well as the cession of Kars are non negotiable objectives and, thus, terms of the current war."

This paired with the aggressive stance that the so called "free" Greek have set up in the Balcans, going beyond even of the borders of their impertinent claims, has convinced us that their goal is the destruction of the Ottoman Empire and their subjects. Already the Albanians and Macedonians overwhelm us with petitions to not let them alone with the Greek. We are convinced that the claims that the two brethren in spirit put forth are only the preparation of the next war, significantly bettering their respective strategic positions. We are convinced that the proclaimed liberty of the Balcan poeples, does not mean more to them than the water that runs down their drains.

We therefore have sent the Czar a last dispatch, revoking all our offers up to date, formulating now our own wargoals:

1. Immidiate withdraw from our lands and waters and calling out an armistice.
2. Return of our rightful property Constanza as reparations.
3. A NAP of five years.
4. This agreement is not extended over any ally. (typically this has never been an issue in past negotiations)

We might currently not have the might to defend our possessions in the balcans, but for how long will this awful situation last? We are d'accord with our people, that we better fight this through now and for good.

La illaha il Allah.
[/INDENT]

[Jonathan Pollard]

時事月報 (Current Affairs Monthly) April 1878

JAPS MEET THEIR END AT TIANJIN

The last remaining pocket of Japs at Tianjin has surrendered. The Empress has proclaimed an official day of national rejoicing at this historic occasion. This victory is but the first step in the joint Chinese-US effort to liberate all of the land in Taiwan and Korea currently subjugated by the Japs.

Elsewhere steady progress continues against the Taiping rebels. The troops at Hainan continue to hold out amid the gathering of a powerful relief force that is sure to drive the Japs from that island as was done previously in this war.
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[Citizen X]

[INDENT] [INDENT] Istanbul, Derâliye, May 1878

Diplomatic Bulletin

The Sublime Porte advises the public, that a diplomatic solution for opposing interests in North Africa has been found. We are about to sign the following contract between Italy and the Ottoman Empire.


Their Majesties, Umberto I. and Sultan Abdulhamit II. have agreed upon the following:

1. We declare a Non Aggression Pact between our nations, lasting for 20 years, beginning from the date of signing the treaty.
2. Tripolis is being sold to Italy for 6000 Statefound and a squadron of modern Battleships. The Battleships shall be delivered in three years but the nations can negotiate a comparable price for them, if the delivery is failed.
3. Ottoman Empire tranfers Misrata and Sirt to Italy. Benghazi, Cyrenaica, Amal and Salloum stay with the Ottoman Empire.
4. Ottoman Empire will not interfer with Italy's plans in Lybia outside these four regions.
5. Ottoman Empire gets the license to exploit the nitrates in Tripolis, while Italy gets to exploit the fruits in Cyrenaica.
6. This treaty will be signed immediatly, however exchange of land and money will be executed, when the Otoman Empire is at peace again.

La illaha il Allah.

---------------------------------

Treaty file will be uploaded later today. We may need help with the scripts, but I will try to figure it out myself.
[/INDENT]
[/INDENT]

[Citizen X]

[INDENT] [INDENT] Istanbul, Derâliye, May 1878

War Bulletin No 4

The Sublime Porte advises the public, that Ahmed Eyüb Pasha has taken the city and fortress of Belgrade. We order a holiday festivity to celebrate this great victory. It shows that the near surrender of our balcan troops is strongly overstated. The enemy has left vast quantities of warmaterial in our hands after his wild rout.

The foray into the Caucasus lead by Osman Nuri Pasha made the enemy give away all his troop strength and deployment in the area. Future operations will be made much easier with this knowledge.

La illaha il Allah.
[/INDENT]
[/INDENT]

[Kensai]

There are several potential issues with that treaty which is otherwise ok, game wise. Regarding (1) bear in mind that we have always put arrangements up to 10 years with scripted VP penalties. Going 20 years is not an issue, but I think that penalties should apply only for the first 10 or in case the player changes or goes AI these requirements should not apply anymore. (2) we should keep ship sales-buys limited per amount-time, meaning only certain units per semester or so. Otherwise it is the new black, every nation in issues will be buying a fleet's worth of ships in each war it engages by neutral countries and wage war. See guys, I am portrayed as the bad guy here but everything I have been complaining about so far has ended up true. Every potential abusable mechanism has been abused, including ships, spawned units, force pools, etc. Be careful! Regarding (3) you are cutting down the "unity" of the colonial area, are you sure you want to do that? The rest sounds ok and doable.

---

Tokyo, Japan, April 1878

NEW GOALS

The Mikado has given permission for further preparations to land on the shores of mainland Asia and destroy the Chinese will to fight, including any infrastructure. Albeit the many losses on our side, the operations in Tianjin are considered at least a partial success as the Japanese forces managed to cripple much of the industrial capacity in that area. The IJA HQ feels there are many new potential targets to be hit in the huge Chinese coastland and all are a stone throw away. It can be done and it will be done. We are also pleased to notice that the liberal* United States of America are not at all happy with President Heyne's decision to start a war a continent away and this, according to our spies, can be sensed by the falling morale of the American population. There was no enthusiasm for this war of theirs and it will never be.

(*OOC: yep, being a democracy F1-wise, can be problematic for NM and war weariness)

[Citizen X]

There are several potential issues with that treaty which is otherwise ok, game wise. Regarding (1) bear in mind that we have always put arrangements up to 10 years with scripted VP penalties. Going 20 years is not an issue, but I think that penalties should apply only for the first 10 or in case the player changes or goes AI these requirements should not apply anymore. (2) we should keep ship sales-buys limited per amount-time, meaning only certain units per semester or so. Otherwise it is the new black, every nation in issues will be buying a fleet's worth of ships in each war it engages by neutral countries and wage war. See guys, I am portrayed as the bad guy here but everything I have been complaining about so far has ended up true. Every potential abusable mechanism has been abused, including ships, spawned units, force pools, etc. Be careful! Regarding (3) you are cutting down the "unity" of the colonial area, are you sure you want to do that? The rest sounds ok and doable.

Point one: We promise each other, as players, not to go to war with each other for a strategic period of time. What the underlying scripts are doing, in regard of potential change in command is of rather little concern to me. Let's say that in then gameyears the script fixes penalties for another 10 game years, when we are still both in charge of the respective countries, or else expires. Every wich way, really...
Point two: (Question: do ships grade up, other than by the replacements mechanism?) I don't see any issue here. It is merely a declaration of intent, to boost the build-up of the Ottoman Navy after this war is over (maybe already achieved in three years). It extends on the equivalent of a squadron of battleships and isn't fixed in detail yet. I appreciate your advise on this matter. However, forcepools are defintly not the issue here on behalf of the Ottoman Empire.
Point three: Unless there are negative impacts from the game-mechanics (of which I don't know any), yes we agreed on cutting it. Are there any known issues?

[Jim-NC]

Point one: We promise each other, as players, not to go to war with each other for a strategic period of time. What the underlying scripts are doing, in regard of potential change in command is of rather little concern to me. Let's say that in then gameyears the script fixes penalties for another 10 game years, when we are still both in charge of the respective countries, or else expires. Every wich way, really...
Point two: (Question: do ships grade up, other than by the replacements mechanism?) I don't see any issue here. It is merely a declaration of intent, to boost the build-up of the Ottoman Navy after this war is over (maybe already achieved in three years). It extends on the equivalent of a squadron of battleships and isn't fixed in detail yet. I appreciate your advise on this matter. However, forcepools are defintly not the issue here on behalf of the Ottoman Empire.
Point three: Unless there are negative impacts from the game-mechanics (of which I don't know any), yes we agreed on cutting it. Are there any known issues?

There may be. As it is 1 colonial area, declaring a colony could make the entire colony the colonizers (thus Italy could "gain" your part or vice versa). Also, the holder of the non colonial capital can't change the colonial status of their regions (you can't make a colony of a region unless you play the card in the capital). We may have to split the colony, and add a 2nd colonial capital to make it work, or some other scripting.

[Sir Garnet]

OOC: From prior investigations, I understand the game engine requires one colonial capital per colonial area and allows regions to be changed from one colonial area to another (as in the past corrections to certain incorrect and thus problematic borders in Africa-Asia.

However, I think changing the basic geographic units of the game should not be done lightly and should reflect some change in real differences, such as a shift in ethnicity.

In game terms, too many differences between powers could be easily solved by splitting the difference.

-----

Good trade for the mapmakers, but powers may also take an interest in the appropriateness of redefining permanent geographic features.to suit temporary tactical considerations. An attempt to split the difference makes it appear that neither party has the entire right of the matter, calling the enterprise into question. Meanwhile, there are more substantial territorial intrusions and irregularities which remain to be remedied.

[Citizen X]

There may be. As it is 1 colonial area, declaring a colony could make the entire colony the colonizers (thus Italy could "gain" your part or vice versa). Also, the holder of the non colonial capital can't change the colonial status of their regions (you can't make a colony of a region unless you play the card in the capital). We may have to split the colony, and add a 2nd colonial capital to make it work, or some other scripting.

I think, from my testing with the Syria colony, that it can be done by scripting. How the further effects in gameplay will be I can't say, of course. But the splitting can be done. I know, I can't change the colonial status of Benghazi in the future, however, that's not intended anyway. And then military controll is all another chapter, too.
Interesting task, alltogether.

[Kensai]

Thessaloniki, Greece, May 1878

THESSALONIKI GARRISON SURRENDERS

The Ottoman garrison of Thessaloniki decided to surrender in front of the siege cannons and engineers the Greek army had amassed in the Western entry of the city. Cut off from the land and with only minimal supplies delivered from the sea (given the Russian blockade of the previous months), the garrison decided not to shed any more blood. The ecstatic Greek population of the city welcomed the entering army saying that they were finally free, after almost 5 centuries of Ottoman rule.

OTTOMAN INVASIONS ELSEWHERE

Nonetheless, with the disappearance of the Russian fleet from the Aegean the Ottomans took the opportunity and landed in both Crete and Attica. The use of Ottoman marine units helped them get a foothold in both places, but resistance continues. The fortified city of Athens can resist and help is on the way, anyway.

A FREE MONTENEGRO

A corps of the Royal Greek Army managed to oust the local Ottoman garrison of Cetinje, allowing the Montenegrin government to take back positions in their capital. With the liberation of Montenegro, the Ottoman forces in the Western Balkans are effectively completely separated from their supply lines. They can now only forage the land for their needs, their supplies will be running out soon.

---

Korean Sea, May 1878

KOREAN PIRATES SHIPS DESTROYED; ADMIRAL ARAI PROMOTED

The pluridecorated Rear Admiral Arai has taken a promotion given his sustained record of successful naval confrontations. He has been given a new difficult task now to work. A new raising star admiral has been trained in the imperial capital, one that can potentially add a lot to the modernized Japanese fleet.

[Citizen X]

[INDENT] [INDENT] Istanbul, Derâliye, June 1878

War Bulletin No 5

The Sublime Porte advises the public, that vast landing operations took place in the Aegean Sea to liberate our sacred soil from the boots of the Greek oppressors. We landed in Crete and near the capital of the enemy, in Attica. Fall of the city of Athens is imminent and expected every day now. Operations are lead by Müshir Süleyman Pasha, the hero of the Arabian campaign.

Through this Bulletin we urge the friends of the Greek government and people, to influence on them. Only complete, immediate and unconditional surrender might spare them from our wrath.

After finishing the Balcan campaign with the fall of Belgrade Ahmed Eyüb Pasha disengaged in the direction of Sarajevo. Despite enemy propaganda he has enough troops and forage to hold out another year. We expect peacetalks without preconditions to start this week. We have already recieved word from the Serbian and and Montenegrinian government that they except anything but "spare us the Greek", as an official had put it.

We regret to inform the public, that Saloniki has fallen. To spare the Civilian inhabitants a lengthy and costly siege, a surrender note has been passed to the Greek commanders. Despite enemy propaganda, a fortnight of shelling hasn't broken the will of the defenders, but mostly civilian property, as can be seen here...


...and here.




Under the screen of the Greek army a minority of Greek franctireurs almost immediatly began with atrocities against members of other natianol groups.

We see here expelled turcish peasants near the Wardar.


We shall not forget this, when it comes to drawing the final account.

In Inner Arabia, the last remnants of Russian rule have been overcome at Huluf. Muslim population is now under the protection of Chalif Abdülhamit II.

La illaha il Allah.
[/INDENT]
[/INDENT]

[Kensai]

We warn the Ottoman government that a force, well fed and supplied, is inbound to relieve Athens from its imminent siege. This combined force is almost double their size and will fight fiercely for their homeland. Any sacking of the capital will simply add to the wrath of the population for more punishing measures when peace is finally done. Any destruction perpetrated will be accounted for. We are puzzled by the spasmodic naval invasions of the Ottoman forces which will simply add up to the final reparations account, against the Porte. Mainland Greece is not Arabia, a land mostly of deserts and emptiness. People live here and the pillaging done should be avenged.

Greek HQ


(OOC: Citizen X, I hope you know what you are doing and have a real exit plan for your policies cause with all this destruction you have caused it's gonna be a huge bill in the end. So big, you are probably compromising your avatar nation's possibilities of reconstruction for a decade to come.)

[Citizen X]

We warn the Ottoman government that a force, well fed and supplied, is inbound to relieve Athens from its imminent siege. This combined force is almost double their size and will fight fiercely for their homeland. Any sacking of the capital will simply add to the wrath of the population for more punishing measures when peace is finally done. Any destruction perpetrated will be accounted for. We are puzzled by the spasmodic naval invasions of the Ottoman forces which will simply add up to the final reparations account, against the Porte. Mainland Greece is not Arabia, a land mostly of deserts and emptiness. People live here and the pillaging done should be avenged.

Greek HQ


(OOC: Citizen X, I hope you know what you are doing and have a real exit plan for your policies cause with all this destruction you have caused it's gonna be a huge bill in the end. So big, you are probably compromising your avatar nation's possibilities of reconstruction for a decade to come.)

OOC then: I don't know what to say. Actually I am presenting an exit strategy for all of us out of this war with almost every turn that comes. In the forums as well as with mails. Go back a few pages, how much I tried to roleplay you into negotiations just BEFORE the war. I literally begged on my knees. But the answer is always the same. "Lose those regions or keep fighting". I invite everybody to count the percentage of production that I will lose with those provinces. In coal, in iron, in wheat, in tea. Not taking in account the loss of two, yes two F10 objectives, Kars being worth 10 points. I invite everybody to look into the OE turn from April 1877. How broke the country actually was. You think the OE player can be threatened with a decade of building up. That's rediculous. It will take that time anyways and any reperations that hinder building it up will only make paying them impossible. Havent you learnt from history, the outcome of the very history we are playing in here? Not to speak of the impact on building the country up, that the loss of those provinces will have.
What do you think how much fun this was on my part so far. Being baited into taking the OE, just go back and read. Strong country, strong allies, Bulgaria and Kars will be given back by script. Only to learn, that it was plotted from the beginning, before I even entered the game that this was only made to stage the Balcan crisis, with the obvious goal to give Greece the opportunity to widen its borders. Let's go back a few turns and see how many turns it took Russia to step out of the defensive pact, after I took charge in the OE. How many turns it took Greece to call in the reserves. How do you think that made me feel? And how do think it made me feel, when in the same process an overly confident opponent posted something like "be kind to the AI", while voiding the human player of two of his precious coalmines through this kindness. Now how do think that felt. Ever thought about that?
But, no more whining, I took the challenge and pushed through at best of my abilities and achieved quite a bit, against all odds. At least I deserve the dignity not getting personally adressed and OOCed for that. Anyway. Someone got aggressive and waged war, clearly expecting an easy go without consequences for himself. Where at least he should have looked into the Hague Conference if even his opponent has signed it and then calculate the chances of the opponent getting mad.
Now the warmongering party learned, that the war won't be over till Christmas and that it comes with a lot of destruction and everybody loses. Sound familiar to a historically interested person playing a 19th/20th century imperialistic game?
My compassion at least expands over a very limited range, to be honest. After all you still have the opportunity to surrender.

Nonetheless I played strictly IC all the time, there was nothing that couldn't have happened historically and I came with a sound IC explanation on everything. And as I want to keep it that way and boil everything down, and mostly for the respect I have for you and the long dedication you brought in here I won't ask for anybody else to resolve next turn, wich I would normally absolutly do, because there is a high chance of Athens to surrender the next turn on day one. Take it as a sign of my trust and personal gratitude to have the opportunity to play here.

[Citizen X]

OOC: I haven't published any Ottoman wargoals so far, mainly because I had hoped for return to the status quo ante. Well, I think this war will go till the bitter end and to have something to calculate on I publish my claims.

IC:
Istanbul, Derâliye, June 1878

War Bulletin No 5

The Sublime Porte advises the public on our claims to end this war.

A.) Immediate measures
1. Russia and Greece take full responsiblity for the outbreak of the war and its ongoing course.
2. Demarcation line in the Caucasus will be the pre war border.
3. Russia will immediatly and directly withdraw all forces behind the river Danube.
4. Russia will withdraw all naval forces in the Mediteranean and the Black Sea into their respective stations.
5. Greece will withdraw all their troops north of Attica to Epirus for the time being.
6. The Ottoman Empire shall enter the city of Athens as bail. It will leave all private property intact.

B.) Consequential measures
1. Greece will withdraw all claims on Saloniki, Epirus, Thrace and Thessalia.
2. Greece will return the Islands of Crete and Rhodos to the Ottoman Empire as their just owner.
3. Greece will return the Island of Corfu to Great Britain as its rightfull owner or to the Ottoman Empire as administrtor.
4. Greece will hand over all naval vehicles to the Ottoman Empire.
5. Russia will return Constanza to the Ottoman Empire as its rightfull owner.
6. Russia will provide the Ottoman Empire with the burden of protecting their Arabian subjects.
6. The Greek government shall recieve all subjects of Greek origin, that the Ottoman government may decide to expell from its soil.

[Kensai]

I simply wanted to warn you that we do remember "bad actions". Some nations have even gone to sign a treaty against unwarranted destruction (see in the game folders).
Keep up the good work! If you feel so confident, it's awesome.

Just reread your post.

What do you think how much fun this was on my part so far. Being baited into taking the OE, just go back and read. Strong country, strong allies, Bulgaria and Kars will be given back by script. Only to learn, that it was plotted from the beginning, before I even entered the game that this was only made to stage the Balcan crisis, with the obvious goal to give Greece the opportunity to widen its borders.

Baited? Come on, you are exaggerating. It is a war game that follows historical events as closely as scripted events can. You cannot simply expect that neither Russia nor Greece will push for their objectives when the time is right. And the time WAS right when four minor nations (Bulgaria, Serbia, Montenegro, Moldavia) all at once decided to rebel against the Ottoman Empire. What did you expect, that I as Greece would attack the Ottomans alone at a time of your convenience?

As for the rest of your points, perhaps you are right perhaps not. But nobody promised here that keeping the OE intact in this era will be easy. Steam had built up. Anyway, we will see, there is always the possibility that you are right.

[bjfagan]

The German Government has grown concerned over the recent battlefield successes of the Greek Army and the large amount of territory it has conquered beyond any initial Greek claims. Chancellor von Bismarck has requested the German General Staff to consider options for intervention and military assistance. Germany cannot, and will not, allow the Greek nation to run roughshod over the Ottoman Empire and threaten their existence. Our government will explore ways to assist the Ottomans and return the Greeks to their pre-war borders.

[Citizen X]

I simply wanted to warn you that we do remember "bad actions". Some nations have even gone to sign a treaty against unwarranted destruction (see in the game folders).
Keep up the good work! If you feel so confident, it's awesome.

Just reread your post.

Baited? Come on, you are exaggerating. It is a war game that follows historical events as closely as scripted events can. You cannot simply expect that neither Russia nor Greece will push for their objectives when the time is right. And the time WAS right when four minor nations (Bulgaria, Serbia, Montenegro, Moldavia) all at once decided to rebel against the Ottoman Empire. What did you expect, that I as Greece would attack the Ottomans alone at a time of your convenience?

As for the rest of your points, perhaps you are right perhaps not. But nobody promised here that keeping the OE intact in this era will be easy. Steam had built up. Anyway, we will see, there is always the possibility that you are right.

Maybe baited is the wrong word. But that was exactly how it felt in that moment.
Course of actions was this. I handeled the Bulgarian crisis so that no automatic event would fire. I know the Ottomans quite well. Then Russia got impatient with the course of how things went and dowed me just before their CB would expire. THEN the minors dowed me. Then Greece. What I expect is that a new player at least gets a chance to get things going, when the country has less then it has when the game starts and the best leaders are past already. Maybe one day we get to play together from 1850 up. Then I can show you what the OE should look like in 1878. You seem to have the impression that it is inevitable in real life as in game, that the OE must get pushed around. And that's dead wrong.

Anyway. Things are steamed up and will eventually calm down. I was oocly and icly pissed, I think I made that clear. The course of the Ottoman war actions would have been just the same if it hadn't affected me at all, however. It's just a necessity to hit as hard as ever possible, when you are on the lower edge of the totempole.