This is the situation:
Johore attacked me in Singapore, but I had an idle army in India, so a few months later all of Johore was British. Except for this one tiny province with a Dutch coaling station.
Colony status is: Netherlands influenced territory.
I have been playing all available colony cards on this province. Dev. level is 63%. My colonial penetration is a decent 35%, compared to the Dutch 25%. My loyalty level is 20%, which is on a par with the Dutch, against 60% to the Johorians.
I have had a Field Marshall with 100k soldiers standing on the spot for maybe half a year, but the Dutch have still got 100% Military Control. In spite of them having no troops nearby.
What can I do to get rid of the Dutch from my rightful possessions?
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loki100
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this is a bit of a guess but I think I've seen similar. First the MC issue is a bit of a red herring (v appropriate as your dispute is with the Dutch). As you are not, I presume, at war with them, you won't contest their MC.
Others have reported that ports of various types seem not to flip control very easily. I had this with the Ottomans in Eritrea where a port remained Ottoman despite me owning the province (& us being at war). If I recall a post from Pocus there is a mechanism that will very slowly lead to the decline of their control but in general it seems that ports are very resistant to this.
Best is to apply some logic to your game. Ok Jahore, which is a Dutch influenced area, attacked you and you beat them up. Is there any reason why the Dutch should then cede control to you? If not, I'd say carry on your colonial struggle (but you will find it hard to make progress as its in their SoI - guessing at this). I have something similar in the Persian Gulf where one of my provinces is the UK's SoI and I struggle to keep my CP up into the 30s as a result.
Alternatively, write a script that will flip control of the coaling station to the UK.
I don't think in this instance pure military power makes the slightest bit of difference.
Others have reported that ports of various types seem not to flip control very easily. I had this with the Ottomans in Eritrea where a port remained Ottoman despite me owning the province (& us being at war). If I recall a post from Pocus there is a mechanism that will very slowly lead to the decline of their control but in general it seems that ports are very resistant to this.
Best is to apply some logic to your game. Ok Jahore, which is a Dutch influenced area, attacked you and you beat them up. Is there any reason why the Dutch should then cede control to you? If not, I'd say carry on your colonial struggle (but you will find it hard to make progress as its in their SoI - guessing at this). I have something similar in the Persian Gulf where one of my provinces is the UK's SoI and I struggle to keep my CP up into the 30s as a result.
Alternatively, write a script that will flip control of the coaling station to the UK.
I don't think in this instance pure military power makes the slightest bit of difference.
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Actually, loki100, I think a conflict in this case is a certain way to decrease a rival's MC. Please note that MC can be high irrespective of actual presence of troops. In our 24-nation multiplayer I had left Southern Sakhalin as Japan and played a couple of colonial cards (merchants mostly) and the MC went back up despite the fact that Russia owned the island after Saint Petersburg Treaty of 1875.
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SonOfAGhost
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Definitely some odd things with control of territory and preexisting 3rd party structures. While loki100 is correct that there is some logic to not wresting control from a non belligerent, it's a little odd how they can passively block you from doing things, even if they have hardly any control themselves.
As I understand it, you have MC in, but don't yet own, the region? If it was an Jahorian port, you would own it after doing so. Where it gets a little weird is that, being Dutch, you still wouldn't get the port even after you do own the territory via treaty or colonization of the region. Arguably, they paid to build it, so they should still own the facility, seizing it would be an act of war. Once it's in your territory though you get to at least use it though, right? Wrong!
As Britain I established protectorate status in Indochina. The French start with a coaling station, mission, trade and military posts in Saigon. Since the French still own those structures, not only can I not build certain things, like a fort or depot (in my own colonial capital!), but the coaling station doesn't even count as a collection point because the French still own it. Which apparently some how prevents my merchants using the port to pick up rice shipments despite good enough relations that we have a mutual supply treaty...
As I understand it, you have MC in, but don't yet own, the region? If it was an Jahorian port, you would own it after doing so. Where it gets a little weird is that, being Dutch, you still wouldn't get the port even after you do own the territory via treaty or colonization of the region. Arguably, they paid to build it, so they should still own the facility, seizing it would be an act of war. Once it's in your territory though you get to at least use it though, right? Wrong!
As Britain I established protectorate status in Indochina. The French start with a coaling station, mission, trade and military posts in Saigon. Since the French still own those structures, not only can I not build certain things, like a fort or depot (in my own colonial capital!), but the coaling station doesn't even count as a collection point because the French still own it. Which apparently some how prevents my merchants using the port to pick up rice shipments despite good enough relations that we have a mutual supply treaty...
I don't really need this province, but it is right on the border, and the Dutch coaling station prevents me from building a depot.
Some progress has been made, though, the province is no longer Dutch controlled, but British, so now I can build a railroad. And when I got that, I don't need the depot.
The same situation has just popped up again, this time in South West Africa. I can build a railroad, but no depot. I am in colonial control, but the Germans are in military control because of a building. But there is no building?!? Anyway, I can build a railroad, and that is what is important here, too.
Thanks for the suggestions loki100, I don't know how to write or run a script, and I really don't want to learn it, not yet, that is. The game designers have created what I feel is a decent challenge, and I don't want to change the fundamentals. Except in case of a game-breaking bug, but I can live with invisible German buildings.
Kensai, I observed that when I finally got colonial control of my province (but still no military control), my SOI had risen to 5, even with the Dutch. Which means that eventually he will have to give up his coaling station, as I am winning the SOI game. At least I think I am, I have checked this province specifically and played every available colonial card for at least half a year now.
I also spent a lot of colonial cards on the regional capital, Singapore. Does this help me in this situation? Will a high SOI in Singapore help the SOI in the nearby administrative provinces?
edit: Just saw your post, Sonofaghost. The whole question boils down to this: Is there a known way to manipulate the game so that we gain control of the buildings we accidentally inherit from other powers? If not, then it is a bug and I will have to learn how to script.
Some progress has been made, though, the province is no longer Dutch controlled, but British, so now I can build a railroad. And when I got that, I don't need the depot.
The same situation has just popped up again, this time in South West Africa. I can build a railroad, but no depot. I am in colonial control, but the Germans are in military control because of a building. But there is no building?!? Anyway, I can build a railroad, and that is what is important here, too.
Thanks for the suggestions loki100, I don't know how to write or run a script, and I really don't want to learn it, not yet, that is. The game designers have created what I feel is a decent challenge, and I don't want to change the fundamentals. Except in case of a game-breaking bug, but I can live with invisible German buildings.
Kensai, I observed that when I finally got colonial control of my province (but still no military control), my SOI had risen to 5, even with the Dutch. Which means that eventually he will have to give up his coaling station, as I am winning the SOI game. At least I think I am, I have checked this province specifically and played every available colonial card for at least half a year now.
I also spent a lot of colonial cards on the regional capital, Singapore. Does this help me in this situation? Will a high SOI in Singapore help the SOI in the nearby administrative provinces?
edit: Just saw your post, Sonofaghost. The whole question boils down to this: Is there a known way to manipulate the game so that we gain control of the buildings we accidentally inherit from other powers? If not, then it is a bug and I will have to learn how to script.
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loki100
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partial answer. Yes your CP spreads out from owned provinces and I believe there is a multiplier for the power with the higher SOI for any colonial decision - which is why its hard to dispute colonial ownership with the 'proper' owner
This did come up and I recall a post from Pocus who indicated these situations would resolve over time with a combination of MC and CP leading to such buildings shifting control ... but I've never seen that happen to be honest
This did come up and I recall a post from Pocus who indicated these situations would resolve over time with a combination of MC and CP leading to such buildings shifting control ... but I've never seen that happen to be honest
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Update:
In the disputed province in Johore I built a railroad, and this is fully functioning as far as I can tell (I get a travel time reduction). The Dutch coaling station still prevents me from building depots, but this is no problem, as I just send in some supply wagons by railroad.
The disputed province in South Africa has also got its own railroad now, but this isn't working (I get no travel time reduction). Funny thing is that the German coaling station is invisible, it does not show up on the cityscape view. Also it prevents me from building depots, which is a problem, now that my railroad isn't working.
Both provinces have colony status (British), both have a decent CP (at least better than anyone else's) and both are 100% military controlled by me.
Why these two provinces behave so differently is beyond me.
In the disputed province in Johore I built a railroad, and this is fully functioning as far as I can tell (I get a travel time reduction). The Dutch coaling station still prevents me from building depots, but this is no problem, as I just send in some supply wagons by railroad.
The disputed province in South Africa has also got its own railroad now, but this isn't working (I get no travel time reduction). Funny thing is that the German coaling station is invisible, it does not show up on the cityscape view. Also it prevents me from building depots, which is a problem, now that my railroad isn't working.
Both provinces have colony status (British), both have a decent CP (at least better than anyone else's) and both are 100% military controlled by me.
Why these two provinces behave so differently is beyond me.
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SonOfAGhost
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I'm guessing you mean Angra territory in Windhoek region. I started a new GC just to compare. Only an anchorage shows up in the cityscape. Though on the map it displays as having a fort on a 1/2 empty land 1/2 water cityscape that's not on the coast, but the fort does not show up looking in city scape. Same on both counts with Springbok next door.
In my real game Prussia declared war on me awhile back so I conquered Angra and then established Protectorate status for the region before they agreed to peace so I have full control. However, on the display side of things, those same 2 territories now show only the anchorage and empty cityscape on the map. They're now separate instead of 2 parts of a circle. With the anchorage on the coast and the empty 1/2 cityscape in the original location with no fort or depot displayed. Selecting the cityscape shows the fort and supply depot in both (pretty sure I built the depots, can't remember if I did the forts or if they were there). Angra, however, uses the picture for a colonial military outpost even though the text underneath is fort (pre-industrial), the same as Springbok which shows the correct picture in the cityscape.
So yes, funny things do seem to happen there with what is displayed vs what is built and that also seems to change as other things get built. That display issue though seems unrelated to the build/supply problems since I'm having the former, not the latter. It may, however, given the different icons I'm seeing in the cityscapes, be masking the presence of a Prussian colonial military outpost which may be the difference in behavior as the only one I see anywhere in Malaya is A) British and B) in Penang, not Johore (unless the Dutch built one as well as the coaling station). So the coaling stations in both are enough to prevent some building, but the outpost (if there) preventing supply/movement bonus.
What is your level (influence-dominion) of colonial status in each region? I've got protectorate in both Windhoek region for Angra and Cochinchina region for Saigon but, because of my military victory over Prussia, only having issues with the French structures in Saigon as I now own the ones in Angra.
The supply and RR movement issues seem a bigger deal to me than being unable to build. I've had no reason to send troops or build a RR in Saigon yet so can't confirm those issues now. Will move some troops down the coast and see what happens. Particularly since the supply filter shows a crate there, and the territory is green on the map. Do the 2 territories show as green or orange on map when using the supply filter?
In my real game Prussia declared war on me awhile back so I conquered Angra and then established Protectorate status for the region before they agreed to peace so I have full control. However, on the display side of things, those same 2 territories now show only the anchorage and empty cityscape on the map. They're now separate instead of 2 parts of a circle. With the anchorage on the coast and the empty 1/2 cityscape in the original location with no fort or depot displayed. Selecting the cityscape shows the fort and supply depot in both (pretty sure I built the depots, can't remember if I did the forts or if they were there). Angra, however, uses the picture for a colonial military outpost even though the text underneath is fort (pre-industrial), the same as Springbok which shows the correct picture in the cityscape.
So yes, funny things do seem to happen there with what is displayed vs what is built and that also seems to change as other things get built. That display issue though seems unrelated to the build/supply problems since I'm having the former, not the latter. It may, however, given the different icons I'm seeing in the cityscapes, be masking the presence of a Prussian colonial military outpost which may be the difference in behavior as the only one I see anywhere in Malaya is A) British and B) in Penang, not Johore (unless the Dutch built one as well as the coaling station). So the coaling stations in both are enough to prevent some building, but the outpost (if there) preventing supply/movement bonus.
What is your level (influence-dominion) of colonial status in each region? I've got protectorate in both Windhoek region for Angra and Cochinchina region for Saigon but, because of my military victory over Prussia, only having issues with the French structures in Saigon as I now own the ones in Angra.
The supply and RR movement issues seem a bigger deal to me than being unable to build. I've had no reason to send troops or build a RR in Saigon yet so can't confirm those issues now. Will move some troops down the coast and see what happens. Particularly since the supply filter shows a crate there, and the territory is green on the map. Do the 2 territories show as green or orange on map when using the supply filter?
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SonOfAGhost
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Jim-NC wrote:In Africa, you may have enemy soldiers there that you can't see (it cuold be some tribal unit is hiding in the province). You would need to chase them off, but you need to see them first.
If he's got 100% MC and a RR he shouldn't be having supply issues from natives.
Not sure if they'd impact RR movement, but I've never seen it be an issue without losing majority MC.
Being unable to build specifies in the mouse-over that you must own all structures, so again, not a natives issue.
Undetected enemies can be an issue in places other than Africa as well. When Burma goes to war with GBR hiding, rough terrain and atrocious weather all conspire to make it a real PitA game of whack-a-mole. Pretty much have to build RR (very expensive due to terrain), fort, depot and station at least an infantry brigade in every territory and then have a bigger army moving around to take a few hits off them each time they pop up.
Hi SonOfADhost, I play as GB, the year is 1865:
Penang: Great Britain protectorate
MC: GB 100%
loyalty: GB 10%, Johore 90%
CP: GB 33%, Netherlands 20%
SOI: GB 6, Netherlands -5
Buildings:
GB: tradepost, mission, railroad (functioning)
Netherlands: Coaling station, town
Note: Only problem is I cannot build certain buildings (like harbor, depot).
Angra: Great Britain Influenced
MC: Prussia 100%
loyalty: Namaqua 100%
CP: GB 35%
SOI: 1
Buildings:
GB: Mission, tradepost, railroad (functioning)
Note: The Prussian building is still invisible. Could it be a town, that is yet so small as to not show up? Railroads are working now, so I can micromanage and support the troops by cart.
Qatar: GB Influenced
MC: Abu Dhabi 100%
loyalty: Abu Dhabians 100%
CP: GB 40%, Ottomans 7%
SOI: GB 3, Ottomans 2
Buildings:
GB: Consulate, Exploitation station
Ottoman: Mission
Note: Qatar is new, it was gifted to me, but I didn't have the troops to collect immediately, and when finally I sent an expeditionary corps, the Ottomans had managed to build a mission, thus ruining my whole Qatar project.
I can live comfortably with the Dutch Penang Coaling Station, and I can work around the Angra situation by micromanaging. But the Qatar issue is bad: There is no harbor, and I am not allowed to build one, so the exploitation center I put there is of no use. And there is nothing I can do to help matters, no colonial cards, no military presence. I had some troops stationed there for perhaps three months, but the micromanaging of supply carts by sea without a harbor became too tedious, so I abandoned the place.
I don't mind that rival powers try to spoil my progress, but if the designers have provided no in-game tools with which to deal with such obstructions, then in my book it is a bug.
I heard a rumor about public beta-testing for 1.04, imho this is one of the issues that must be adressed in the next patch.
Penang: Great Britain protectorate
MC: GB 100%
loyalty: GB 10%, Johore 90%
CP: GB 33%, Netherlands 20%
SOI: GB 6, Netherlands -5
Buildings:
GB: tradepost, mission, railroad (functioning)
Netherlands: Coaling station, town
Note: Only problem is I cannot build certain buildings (like harbor, depot).
Angra: Great Britain Influenced
MC: Prussia 100%
loyalty: Namaqua 100%
CP: GB 35%
SOI: 1
Buildings:
GB: Mission, tradepost, railroad (functioning)
Note: The Prussian building is still invisible. Could it be a town, that is yet so small as to not show up? Railroads are working now, so I can micromanage and support the troops by cart.
Qatar: GB Influenced
MC: Abu Dhabi 100%
loyalty: Abu Dhabians 100%
CP: GB 40%, Ottomans 7%
SOI: GB 3, Ottomans 2
Buildings:
GB: Consulate, Exploitation station
Ottoman: Mission
Note: Qatar is new, it was gifted to me, but I didn't have the troops to collect immediately, and when finally I sent an expeditionary corps, the Ottomans had managed to build a mission, thus ruining my whole Qatar project.
I can live comfortably with the Dutch Penang Coaling Station, and I can work around the Angra situation by micromanaging. But the Qatar issue is bad: There is no harbor, and I am not allowed to build one, so the exploitation center I put there is of no use. And there is nothing I can do to help matters, no colonial cards, no military presence. I had some troops stationed there for perhaps three months, but the micromanaging of supply carts by sea without a harbor became too tedious, so I abandoned the place.
I don't mind that rival powers try to spoil my progress, but if the designers have provided no in-game tools with which to deal with such obstructions, then in my book it is a bug.
I heard a rumor about public beta-testing for 1.04, imho this is one of the issues that must be adressed in the next patch.
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SonOfAGhost
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I think I've figured out the issue in Angara by looking at some other territories all over the map. The problem is not an invisible structure. The problem is the error message for why you can't build is wrong. Even with no structures, you can't build things like depots, forts and harbors in territories that others have MC in.
I've had a brigade in Saigon for several turns now and it stayed supplied with no effort on my part. So mutual supply may not allow use of a port for trade, it does seem to work for supporting troops. Possible solution there, at least for supply, if your relations with the Dutch and Prussians are decent enough to get a treaty with them.
Britain starts with primary influence and low CP on both Qatar and Dubai so not sure what you meant by it being new and gifted to you. I guess some scripted event that put the consulate there? Anyway, if you get protectorate status for Dubai (region) then you should get MC automatically a few turns later and be able to build a harbor in Dubai (territory) and RR to Qatar via Trucial.
I'm assuming you don't want to go to war with any of the 3 structure-owning countries to get control that way. I'd certainly work on at least getting protectorate status for Windhoek region as you won't want the Prussians/Germans there when you go to war with the Boers.
As an aside, I'd recommend against ever building a collection point on the coast. Harbors have the same effect and do so much more.
I've had a brigade in Saigon for several turns now and it stayed supplied with no effort on my part. So mutual supply may not allow use of a port for trade, it does seem to work for supporting troops. Possible solution there, at least for supply, if your relations with the Dutch and Prussians are decent enough to get a treaty with them.
Britain starts with primary influence and low CP on both Qatar and Dubai so not sure what you meant by it being new and gifted to you. I guess some scripted event that put the consulate there? Anyway, if you get protectorate status for Dubai (region) then you should get MC automatically a few turns later and be able to build a harbor in Dubai (territory) and RR to Qatar via Trucial.
I'm assuming you don't want to go to war with any of the 3 structure-owning countries to get control that way. I'd certainly work on at least getting protectorate status for Windhoek region as you won't want the Prussians/Germans there when you go to war with the Boers.
As an aside, I'd recommend against ever building a collection point on the coast. Harbors have the same effect and do so much more.
The consulate in Qatar and the protectorate status was gifted by special event. But I never got military control, at all.
Anyway, I have decided this is a bug, so I wrote the following script:
This I pasted into the Plugin_1850GC script in the PON/Game Data/Events folder, and it did the trick. I can now build a harbor in Penang. In Qatar I still cannot build anything, because the Abu Dhabians have 100% MC, but I expect to be able to change that soon, by moving troops there.
So now I just have to figure out how to remove the Prussian MC in Angra. Anyone who knows what command to use for this?
edit: I tried this, but it didn't work:
Any ideas, anyone?
Anyway, I have decided this is a bug, so I wrote the following script:
Code: Select all
SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Penang
StartEvent = Fixing buildings in Penang and Qatar|1|1|Null|NULL|$Penang|NULL
Actions
SelectFaction = $HOL
SelectRegion = $Penang
RemoveStructure = ByDefUID $Coaling;ALL;ANYFAC
SelectFaction = $HOL
SelectRegion = $Penang
RemoveStructure = ByDefUID $City;ALL;ANYFAC
SelectFaction = $TUR
SelectRegion = $Qatar
RemoveStructure = ByDefUID $Mission;ALL;ANYFAC
EndEventThis I pasted into the Plugin_1850GC script in the PON/Game Data/Events folder, and it did the trick. I can now build a harbor in Penang. In Qatar I still cannot build anything, because the Abu Dhabians have 100% MC, but I expect to be able to change that soon, by moving troops there.
So now I just have to figure out how to remove the Prussian MC in Angra. Anyone who knows what command to use for this?
edit: I tried this, but it didn't work:
Code: Select all
SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Angra
StartEvent = Fixing MC in Angra|1|1|NULL|NULL|$Angra|NULL
Actions
SelectFaction = $PRU
SelectRegion = $Angra
SetColStatus = $Angra;$colUnclaimed
SetControl = 0
EndEventAny ideas, anyone?
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Sir Garnet
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loki100 wrote:partial answer. Yes your CP spreads out from owned provinces and I believe there is a multiplier for the power with the higher SOI for any colonial decision - which is why its hard to dispute colonial ownership with the 'proper' owner
This did come up and I recall a post from Pocus who indicated these situations would resolve over time with a combination of MC and CP leading to such buildings shifting control ... but I've never seen that happen to be honest
The Belgian structures and flag have remained for a decade in the Gemena region of Portuguese Congo Colony, which although under POR MC and a colony is treated as not under POR control for purposes of playing colonial cards. I dont think this will go away without a script, or possibly a war if the Belgians take MC and Portugal captures it back again (don't know if that will work) since this is in Multiplayer.
Try a simple changeowner script for the region.
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