[PON] Conflict in Europe - General Thread

[coolbean]

That's the thing, I haven't build anything in a long time.

[lukasberger]

Are units that retreat out of a battle into a neutral nations territory considered to be out of a war? Are they allowed to sit in neutral territory and then come back and fight in other words? An Italian army just retreated from Torino into France. Obviously I'm not going to follow them into France, that'd be a violation of French sovereignty, but am trying to figure out what to do with the situation.

[lukasberger]

That's the thing, I haven't build anything in a long time.

Weird. Dunno what could be the problem then.

[Kensai]

coolbean,

coal will be bought for the immediate needs (against money) according to the manual. Obviously not for the industry, but for the ships. I have noticed that huge "stealth" coal consumers are railroads (especially when you move armed forces, you pay even if you move on friendly railways) and ships, obviously. Actually, I don't want to sound like a jerk, but given that you have been spotted to build railroads in the desert (Yemen) it seems kind of divine punishment to me.

Jokes apart, everyone keep an eye on this.

Are units that retreat out of a battle into a neutral nations territory considered to be out of a war? Are they allowed to sit in neutral territory and then come back and fight in other words? An Italian army just retreated from Torino into France. Obviously I'm not going to follow them into France, that'd be a violation of French sovereignty, but am trying to figure out what to do with the situation.

Of course they are allowed to fall back there. If you want to follow them, you need to ask permission from France (I guess passage rights will allow you to enter and hunt them down). If not, you should force France to open its borders by declaring war on France. Last, and most sensible, you should convince France to cancel their passage rights to the Italians so they won't be able to move there and actually get teleported to the nearest free Italian region.

[coolbean]

But it shows how much coal rails and ships use, and I always have extra.

[nemethand]

Are units that retreat out of a battle into a neutral nations territory considered to be out of a war? Are they allowed to sit in neutral territory and then come back and fight in other words? An Italian army just retreated from Torino into France. Obviously I'm not going to follow them into France, that'd be a violation of French sovereignty, but am trying to figure out what to do with the situation.

IC. You may want to keep an eye on what GBR has done: when Russia has requested passage rights, the same rights were immediately granted to China.

In other words, a neutral should allow both (or all) belligerents the same rights.

[Kensai]

But it shows how much coal rails and ships use, and I always have extra.

I believe that if you move armies by rail you use EXTRA coal, not the default. Same applies for ships. If your ships stay idle they do not consume. If you move them around they do. I think the reading you see is for idle (minimum) consuming.

[coolbean]

But I haven't moved any units for at least four turns yet somehow burned 300 coal last turn...

Even when I move my entire army and fleets I have no problem covering the cost in coal, but for some reason in the last three turns I experienced very strange losses, despite triple checking the entire chain of production and consumption. Like I said, I will have a clean slate now and be able to figure out what's going on.

[lukasberger]

IC. You may want to keep an eye on what GBR has done: when Russia has requested passage rights, the same rights were immediately granted to China.

In other words, a neutral should allow both (or all) belligerents the same rights.

I do still have passage rights from France. But relations have been a bit frosty between France and Austria since Austria pulled out of the war and especially since I (stupidly) sent those neutral troops to Germany. I don't want to aggravate France even more.

[lukasberger]

Of course they are allowed to fall back there. If you want to follow them, you need to ask permission from France (I guess passage rights will allow you to enter and hunt them down). If not, you should force France to open its borders by declaring war on France. Last, and most sensible, you should convince France to cancel their passage rights to the Italians so they won't be able to move there and actually get teleported to the nearest free Italian region.

Oh sure, I know they are allowed to fall back there. I'm just trying to figure out if they can sit there for 5 turns recover and then re enter Italy. Historically often combatants entering a neutral nation would be interned for the course of the war and not allowed to return to fighting. I was wondering if that was something that would happen here or if I need to garrison the border against their possible re-entry.

I don't actually care, either way is fine, just wanted to know how this has been handled before.

[Kensai]

Well, the game does not abstract "interning of foreign combatants" so you will have to accept one of the three aforementioned ways. I would certainly hear France first. Btw, given that France and Italy players are out, we must think of interim players. I cannot play Italy (since I play Greece) and France (which probably isn't a problem as they have agreed in the peace terms which are a matter of time, it seems, to be implemented).

[Jim-NC]

I would be willing to help out with Italy (if no one else comes forward).

[bjfagan]

Well, the game does not abstract "interning of foreign combatants" so you will have to accept one of the three aforementioned ways. I would certainly hear France first. Btw, given that France and Italy players are out, we must think of interim players. I cannot play Italy (since I play Greece) and France (which probably isn't a problem as they have agreed in the peace terms which are a matter of time, it seems, to be implemented).

Aren't the players out just temporarily? How soon till Vezina is back?

[De_Spinoza]

Can I have a few more minutes for my turn? Will have my ord in <10 minutes.

[Jim-NC]

Ech_Heftag said he was moving, and would be out for 1 week. Vezina should be back shortly.

[bjfagan]

Early July 1875...

[Kensai]

I would be willing to help out with Italy (if no one else comes forward).

Yes, please do that. But consult Ech_Heftag for his plans.

Regarding France, just a little patient.

[lukasberger]

Yes, please do that. But consult Ech_Heftag for his plans.

I don't think it really matters much who plays Italy right now, or if anyone does. As Jim will see, there's not much for an Italian player to do. Only one 1700CP Italian army is even left remaining on Italian soil. There's also 10000CP of troops in France but they actually did well to make it to France, where the overwhelming Austrian advance forced their retreat. Otherwise they'd have likely been destroyed as have several other Italian armies.

The only real question is when/if Italy will capitulate. The stated Austrian terms are admittedly harsh (F10 objective city Milano, Friuli and the Italian army is not to exceed 35% of Austrian military power for 10 years). This is as should be given Italy's actions in starting the war, stabbing Austria in the back when an agreement was already in place that Italy would get Venezia in exchange for not attacking.

Italy broke the agreement when they thought they could get more by taking advantage of the sore straits that Russia and Germany had put Austria in, necessitating harsh terms in response to that treachery and to slow down the cycle of Italy simply attacking Austria every couple of years.

[bjfagan]

Here is a script from Philippe Thibaut to fix the Saarland structures. It was tested and corrected several times.

Code: Select all

SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Saar

SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Saar
StartEvent = evt_nam_GER_Saarlandfix_CIE_1875D|1|1|NULL|NULL|$Saar|NULL

Conditions
  MinDate = 1875/01/01
  MaxDate = 1899/12/31

Actions

SelectFaction = $RUS
SelectRegion = $Saar
  SelectFaction = RUS
  RemoveStructure = ByKind $stuProdSite;ALL;RUS
  SelectFaction = GER


  CreateStruc
  SetType = $WINES2
  SetName = Piesporter Goldtropfchen
  Apply

  CreateStruc
  SetType = $FRUITS2
  SetName = Saar Apfel
  Apply

  CreateStruc
  SetType = $WOOD1
  SetName = Saarland Holz
  Apply

  CreateStruc
  SetType = $COAL1
  SetName = Saar Minen
  Apply

  CreateStruc
  SetType = $COAL2
  SetName = Saarland Kohl
  Apply

  CreateStruc
  SetType = $COAL2
  SetName = Harpener-Berghar
  Apply

  CreateStruc
  SetType = $IRON1
  SetName = Grube Megen
  Apply

  CreateStruc
  SetType = $IRON2
  SetName = Grube Christianluck
  Apply

  CreateStruc
  SetType = $STEEL2
  SetName = Stumm AG
  Apply

  CreateStruc
  SetType = $MECHANICAL2
  SetName = Borsig Werke
  Apply

EndEvent

BTW, has Europe finally caught up with the USA now... can we process the turn at the old time again?

[nemethand]

BTW, has Europe finally caught up with the USA now... can we process the turn at the old time again?

If you mean NOW, then yes :-)

[bjfagan]

Well then.. Late July 1875

In the future I will go back to processing at 12:00pm Pacific Coast Time, an hour earlier than now.

[nemethand]

Well then.. Late July 1875

In the future I will go back to processing at 12:00pm Pacific Coast Time, an hour earlier than now.

Please, wait till this Sunday, 31 March; the clock will only set forwad then - at least in Hungary.

[bjfagan]

Please, wait till this Sunday, 31 March; the clock will only set forwad then - at least in Hungary.

Ok. I didn't realize your "NOW" meant now and not the "now" that I meant.

BTW, the script removed all of the structures in Saarland, but did not replace them. Now there are no structures. So, it is back to drawing board with Philippe T.

[Kensai]

It is easy to recreate the structures next turn. Btw, sorry I cannot help more actively, I am on the move till the weekend.

[nemethand]

BTW, the script removed all of the structures in Saarland, but did not replace them. Now there are no structures. So, it is back to drawing board with Philippe T.

That's something I frequently observed and have no idea whay it happens. You may want to check the script log, though.

Belgium and Russia is still short of 2 and 1 wool farms, respectively, because of that.

[unclejoe]

Ok. I didn't realize your "NOW" meant now and not the "now" that I meant.

This begs the question: When is Now?

[bjfagan]

That's something I frequently observed and have no idea whay it happens. You may want to check the script log, though.

Belgium and Russia is still short of 2 and 1 wool farms, respectively, because of that.

Where were these? When did this happen?

I received a script from Philippe T and it worked fine, replacing the structures as German. We can most likely adapt this script to replace whatever was lost earlier.

[coolbean]

This begs the question: When is Now?

"That depends on what your definition of is is."
- President Bill Clinton

[bjfagan]

Kensai, just in case you process the turn before I do, here is the script from PhilThib. I tested it and it works fine, so Saarland should be fixed after this.

Code: Select all

SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Saar
StartEvent = evt_nam_GER_Saarlandfix_CIE_1875_F|1|1|NULL|NULL|$Saar|NULL

Conditions
  MinDate = 1875/01/01
  MaxDate = 1899/12/31

Actions

SelectFaction = $GER
  SelectFaction = GER
SelectRegion = $Saar

  CreateStruc
  SetType = $WINES2
  SetName = Piesporter Goldtropfchen
  Apply

  CreateStruc
  SetType = $FRUITS2
  SetName = Saar Apfel
  Apply

  CreateStruc
  SetType = $WOOD1
  SetName = Saarland Holz
  Apply

  CreateStruc
  SetType = $COAL1
  SetName = Saar Minen
  Apply

  CreateStruc
  SetType = $COAL2
  SetName = Saarland Kohl
  Apply

  CreateStruc
  SetType = $COAL2
  SetName = Harpener-Berghar
  Apply

  CreateStruc
  SetType = $IRON1
  SetName = Grube Megen
  Apply

  CreateStruc
  SetType = $IRON2
  SetName = Grube Christianluck
  Apply

  CreateStruc
  SetType = $STEEL2
  SetName = Stumm AG
  Apply

  CreateStruc
  SetType = $MECHANICAL2
  SetName = Borsig Werke
  Apply

EndEvent

[Sir Garnet]

Reports from Luanda arrived in Lisbon advising that the local SOI value had increased by 1, to 1! Given that the former SOI value seemed to have completely disappeared in recent times, this, together with the disappearances of all reported output of mines and farms in Africa for most of a year has caused consternation and even rumors that the end of the world is nigh.