[PON] World In Conflict - General Discussion Thread

[nemethand]

One day u said I can have Holland then another player (Matto) not the starting Vezina wants Holland. And of course Everyday I check the thread while Lucas doesn t. I see you have a good company already playing PBEM
so I don t want to mess your game. I admire the devs of this game so much that I will accept whatever country is available. Just let me Know

Right, Vezina denied interest in Holland, so you signalled your interest. I say Matto decides if he wants China or Ned, and you can take the other. BTW, there are still several countries to be taken.

[Lemoni]

Right, Vezina denied interest in Holland, so you signalled your interest. I say Matto decides if he wants China or Ned, and you can take the other. BTW, there are still several countries to be taken.

If it is possible the Game MAster not the host as his has a tremendous workload must update the players per country. The title of the thread says "new players wanted" . Maybe there are more who like to join World in Confilct

[bjfagan]

Start a new game in the new scenario, if you used the installer given to you it should appear one new 1880 scenario in the list. Then you just send the Italian ords files back to him.

How will I know if I have the updated scenario?

[Soulstrider]

How will I know if I have the updated scenario?

By the name, 1880WinC

[lukasberger]

Right, Vezina denied interest in Holland, so you signalled your interest. I say Matto decides if he wants China or Ned, and you can take the other. BTW, there are still several countries to be taken.

Sounds all right to me.

EDIT: Though I'm not sure there are any other countries left after China and Holland, pretty sure there aren't. I didn't think we were going to make Brazil, Sweden etc. playable, Phil had recommended not doing so.

[lukasberger]

So the final breakdown will likely look like this:

Austrian Empire - Ojodeaguila
Empire of Japan - Ech Heftag
Empire of Russia - coolbean
French Republic - Lindi
Kingdom of Belgium - unclejoe
Kingdom of the Netherlands - Lemoni
Kingdom of Prussia - PhilThib
Kingdom of Sardinia-Piedmont - bjfagan
Kingdom of Spain - nemethand
Ottoman Empire - soulstrider
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland - lukasberger
United States of America - Jim-NC
Quing China - Matto

[Lemoni]

It is midnight now in Greece and I go to sleep. I will send an Holland .ord file back to Phil just to proceed with the test. Tomorrow let me know what country do I play.
Edit. I see it is Holland. Ok for me

[Matto]

Fine for me too ... ready for China ...

[Lindi]

I would say roughly like that, subject to debate

> 0, Trade Agreement
> 10, Give Support
> 20, Defensive Alliance
> 50, Offensive Alliance

Comments ?

Other options maybe, if -100 is ok for Forge casus Belli.

And just for Understand If I have > 20 with 1 country and this country are attack by other country I can go in this war with Forge casus Belli and sent Treaty?

[coolbean]

Just thinking out loud Philthib, but one thing I think would be cool to add to PoN-like AGEOD games in the future would be puppets/satellites. Was just thinking this morning that it would be a cool added dynamic for our e-mail games for peace treaties and such, like releasing countries, and making minor countries puppets. Just thinking out loud, sorry

Philthib, Just loaded the turn, but have a couple of questions:

1. Did you say we are limited to only one guard corps? Russia has one in the field, with the ability to raise four more. Is the one guard corps a rule or did I misread?

2. Russia has Finnish and Ukrainian (and of course the Cossacks!) units, but no ability to construct Finnish/Ukrainian ethnic units in the military build screen. I thought this was something that had to wait a turn process, but then I saw that the F3 screen does have replacement tabs for ethnic units and wanted to raise the issue to verify it's working.

3. In my SP games, and the other MP game, when I would declare a colony, the units belonging to that nation would join come under the declaring nation's command, this was the case for Yemeni units, and all of the American Native tribal units. In the game Bukhara and Khiva are Russian colonies, but still maintain their own military units. I don't mind not having the tribal units, my concern is more that are Khiva and Bukhara independent nations still, even though they don't technically have provinces, cities, or structures? If they are, Russia lacks treaties with them, but it would be pretty cool because it would be the closest to getting puppets/satellites. I'm thinking that most likely after the first turn process, the units will flip to Russian or declare war on Russia to re-take their homeland.

4. In other games, and the other MP game, I've noticed certain structures are not allowed to be built in colonies, one of which the industrial fortress. Russia has a level one industrial fort in Vladivostok. I thought it was a mistake, so I perused the map and noticed there are some other industrial fortresses in other colonies (Spanish Africa, Gibraltar, Malta). Is this a mistake or are industrial fortress allowed in the 1880 scenario? I don't want an edge, so I thought I would raise this issue. Although honestly I feel it is normal to have industrial fortresses in the places I listed above, I understand it would be weird to have one in Africa. What are your thoughts on this?

Will be sending the .ord file soon, after I poke around and play with the economy a little bit!

[bjfagan]

There were no instructions on where to put the 1880 WinC.scn and the LocalStrings_VGN files, but I found where the files were that they replaced. However, I now have two 1880 Campaigns listed. Nothing says WinC.

[lukasberger]

Is it intended that we're unable to combine generals and corps? The + button appears as usual but nothing happens when clicking on it.

[PhilThib]

There were no instructions on where to put the 1880 WinC.scn and the LocalStrings_VGN files, but I found where the files were that they replaced. However, I now have two 1880 Campaigns listed. Nothing says WinC.

If you use the installer, all should be ok

[PhilThib]

Is it intended that we're unable to combine generals and corps? The + button appears as usual but nothing happens when clicking on it.

No it is not..if so, it means an error in the units file. I'll recheck this asap. If error is confirmed, then we need to re-run installer (we may have to do so as I have spotted errors in the Turkish OOB to fix).

[PhilThib]

1. Did you say we are limited to only one guard corps? Russia has one in the field, with the ability to raise four more. Is the one guard corps a rule or did I misread?

2. Russia has Finnish and Ukrainian (and of course the Cossacks!) units, but no ability to construct Finnish/Ukrainian ethnic units in the military build screen. I thought this was something that had to wait a turn process, but then I saw that the F3 screen does have replacement tabs for ethnic units and wanted to raise the issue to verify it's working.

Needs to wait Turn2. Then we'll see if the error still there, and we can run a fix.

3. In my SP games, and the other MP game, when I would declare a colony, the units belonging to that nation would join come under the declaring nation's command, this was the case for Yemeni units, and all of the American Native tribal units. In the game Bukhara and Khiva are Russian colonies, but still maintain their own military units. I don't mind not having the tribal units, my concern is more that are Khiva and Bukhara independent nations still, even though they don't technically have provinces, cities, or structures? If they are, Russia lacks treaties with them, but it would be pretty cool because it would be the closest to getting puppets/satellites. I'm thinking that most likely after the first turn process, the units will flip to Russian or declare war on Russia to re-take their homeland.

Yup in indeed. But no such thing happened in history, so we can as well kill them out now...let me know before I run the turn 1-2 hosting

4. In other games, and the other MP game, I've noticed certain structures are not allowed to be built in colonies, one of which the industrial fortress. Russia has a level one industrial fort in Vladivostok. I thought it was a mistake, so I perused the map and noticed there are some other industrial fortresses in other colonies (Spanish Africa, Gibraltar, Malta). Is this a mistake or are industrial fortress allowed in the 1880 scenario? I don't want an edge, so I thought I would raise this issue. Although honestly I feel it is normal to have industrial fortresses in the places I listed above, I understand it would be weird to have one in Africa. What are your thoughts on this?

Those fortresses are the historical ones. I have no problem with having them built were the players want them. I just feel they are too cheap for the moment, and IMHO the price should be at least doubled. If all agree on that, it can be easily done.

[Ojodeaguila]

1. The fortress limitation could be a good option for the zones of Africa where the units size has been limited to division size.

2. But not for other zones like Cuba or Vladivostok.

3. Can we add the Asian south-east and the islands of Oceania to the malaria limitation?

[PhilThib]

1. The fortress limitation could be a good option for the zones of Africa where the units size has been limited to division size.
2. But not for other zones like Cuba or Vladivostok.

Agreed, this is logical

3. Can we add the Asian south-east and the islands of Oceania to the malaria limitation?

Yes, I missed that, and OK for South Pacific/Oceania islands (NZ/Aus/Hawai excepted). For South East Asia I disagree, most powers had division size units there (e.g. the French in IndoChina for instance) and I would rather prefer that we allow them there.

BTW, I am missing AUS orders.

[PhilThib]

I'd like to propose the following rules to circumvent some of the engine defaults and apply in our game:

1 - Protectorates
When a nation become part of a protectorate, it's forces will go under the control of the protector nation, although suffering a little demobilization in size (this will be handled by a custom event script). Those forces will not be able to receive replacements (or a limited and automatic number while the protectorate lasts)

2- Colonies
When a nation becomes a colony ( = annexed), all it's forces are removed, which is the big change with the engine current issues. There will be a slight (3-5%) chance of a revolt. All this will be handled by a scripted event the turn following annexation (= declaration of colony status).

Rationale: both rules, IMHO, are closer to historical reality and the concepts of protectorate vs colony. They also give a real choice to player: keep a protectorate which is less worthy but have local forces, or upgrade to colony but lose the locals and bear the burden alone...

1880 Setup fix: noted errors in OOB in Central Asia. Both Khiva (1873) and Khokand (1876) had been annexed by Russia and no longer exist. On the contrary, the Emirate of Bohkara was a protectorate (and remained so till 1920). So this has been changed in the setup. NB: also fixed Turkish Bashi-bozouk errors in bulgaria

[wosung]

Any plans for AARs on this game?

Best regards

[PhilThib]

It has not yet started...

[Lindi]

I'd like to propose the following rules to circumvent some of the engine defaults and apply in our game:

1 - Protectorates
When a nation become part of a protectorate, it's forces will go under the control of the protector nation, although suffering a little demobilization in size (this will be handled by a custom event script). Those forces will not be able to receive replacements (or a limited and automatic number while the protectorate lasts)

2- Colonies
When a nation becomes a colony ( = annexed), all it's forces are removed, which is the big change with the engine current issues. There will be a slight (3-5%) chance of a revolt. All this will be handled by a scripted event the turn following annexation (= declaration of colony status).

Rationale: both rules, IMHO, are closer to historical reality and the concepts of protectorate vs colony. They also give a real choice to player: keep a protectorate which is less worthy but have local forces, or upgrade to colony but lose the locals and bear the burden alone...

1880 Setup fix: noted errors in OOB in Central Asia. Both Khiva (1873) and Khokand (1876) had been annexed by Russia and no longer exist. On the contrary, the Emirate of Bohkara was a protectorate (and remained so till 1920). So this has been changed in the setup. NB: also fixed Turkish Bashi-bozouk errors in bulgaria

I have probleme with all force revome, for examne, New-French in Amerique is French colonie but the Indian help French in the war, but if colonie have chance to up force of colonial nation if this nation is under siege by opponent nation, I am really ok with that, for me if colonial nation are good relation with the indigene, the indigene need chance to go war when the colonial nation are in the fight.

[Jim-NC]

I'd like to propose the following rules to circumvent some of the engine defaults and apply in our game:

1 - Protectorates
When a nation become part of a protectorate, it's forces will go under the control of the protector nation, although suffering a little demobilization in size (this will be handled by a custom event script). Those forces will not be able to receive replacements (or a limited and automatic number while the protectorate lasts)

2- Colonies
When a nation becomes a colony ( = annexed), all it's forces are removed, which is the big change with the engine current issues. There will be a slight (3-5%) chance of a revolt. All this will be handled by a scripted event the turn following annexation (= declaration of colony status).

Rationale: both rules, IMHO, are closer to historical reality and the concepts of protectorate vs colony. They also give a real choice to player: keep a protectorate which is less worthy but have local forces, or upgrade to colony but lose the locals and bear the burden alone...

1880 Setup fix: noted errors in OOB in Central Asia. Both Khiva (1873) and Khokand (1876) had been annexed by Russia and no longer exist. On the contrary, the Emirate of Bohkara was a protectorate (and remained so till 1920). So this has been changed in the setup. NB: also fixed Turkish Bashi-bozouk errors in bulgaria

I am fine with that, as long as "local" units can be built (for example, If America makes a colony of SW Africa, and loses the native troops, it should be able to recruit colonial type troops of some sort - I am thinking along the lines of the African troops that I know Britain and France can raise from mid Africa). If America in this case can raise no troops of any type in the colony, then that would be a problem. I know that France and Britain have "Black African" troops they can raise during the game to take the place of lost native troops.

[Lindi]

I am fine with that, as long as "local" units can be built (for example, If America makes a colony of SW Africa, and loses the native troops, it should be able to recruit colonial type troops of some sort - I am thinking along the lines of the African troops that I know Britain and France can raise from mid Africa). If America in this case can raise no troops of any type in the colony, then that would be a problem. I know that France and Britain have "Black African" troops they can raise during the game to take the place of lost native troops.

This is a rare bad reallity of PoN, when I play Solo I get Québec in the France, but I never can use Canadien troops.... xD

[PhilThib]

I am fine with that, as long as "local" units can be built (for example, If America makes a colony of SW Africa, and loses the native troops, it should be able to recruit colonial type troops of some sort - I am thinking along the lines of the African troops that I know Britain and France can raise from mid Africa). If America in this case can raise no troops of any type in the colony, then that would be a problem. I know that France and Britain have "Black African" troops they can raise during the game to take the place of lost native troops.

Well, I just did not want USA to get messed up in Africa...got the message!!

This is a serious issue because that means additions to the DB that are not planned and potentially game-breaking (in terms of DB, not gameplay)..so I am not in favor of it, and in case the US goes out of its place, then it can use US Marines or Colored regiments, they'll do fine too. Because if the whole thing expands, why not Austrian and Japanese askaris too ??

So my answer as designer here is NO...that's the limit I'd like for the game, to stay in line with real history...

[Ojodeaguila]

Agreed, this is logical



Yes, I missed that, and OK for South Pacific/Oceania islands (NZ/Aus/Hawai excepted). For South East Asia I disagree, most powers had division size units there (e.g. the French in IndoChina for instance) and I would rather prefer that we allow them there.

BTW, I am missing AUS orders.

I am with the turn right now but have 1 problem, can I deactivate factories?, if not I will not have M. Parts at the beginning of turn 2.

[PhilThib]

Yes you can, no problem

[Lindi]

Other option for indigene, is fixed that troop on capital colonial area. so with that the troop can use in defence but not in attack.

[Ojodeaguila]

Yes you can, no problem

1. Orders sent.

2. I check the WinC scenario, and I think that Germany have too big stocks of manufactured goods and steel and a very small colonial decisions pool.

[PhilThib]

Other option for indigene, is fixed that troop on capital colonial area. so with that the troop can use in defence but not in attack.

Yes, that could be done via a script after the protectorate is established, not before.

[PhilThib]

2. I check the WinC scenario, and I think that Germany have too big stocks of manufactured goods and steel and a very small colonial decisions pool.

That's historical. Germany is NOT a major colonial player till later, but a very strong industrial power (and later commercial too). The German colonial pool will stay low till the 'KolonialVerein' event occurs in the late 1880's (it will be broadcasted to all later)... it's a different gameplay than CinE mod (unrealistic IMHO), you won't see the Kaiser's flag everywhere here...