[PON] Conflict in Europe - Diplomacy & News Thread

[Jim-NC]

On behalf of HM and HM Governments, we wish to announce the marriage of Prince Alfred to the Grand duchess Marie Alexandrovna.

[ATTACH]21700[/ATTACH]

HM, Queen Victoria wishes the new couple a long and prosperous marriage.

[Kensai]

Having experienced the horros of war, fighting against well trained armies, War Minister Dmitry_Milyutin has convinced the Czar of the need for military reforms. Therefore, the Russian army has undergone major changes.

Damn, did just Russia turn to conscription (F1-wise) from feudal? This would be very good for the Russian armed forces.

On behalf of HM and HM Governments, we wish to announce the marriage of Prince Alfred to the Grand duchess Marie Alexandrovna.

[ATTACH]21700[/ATTACH]

HM, Queen Victoria wishes the new couple a long and prosperous marriage.

Does this mean finally relations between the British and Russian Empires become better?
(I presume the event improved relations)

[Kensai]

Athens, Greece, February 1874

FAMOUS GREEK TRADERS

Greece's relation with the sea is an ancient one. Traders of the antiquity managed to colonize much of the Mediterranean. Nowadays the government strives to do the same in a global way. After the extension of the Port of Piraeus the Greek shipbuilding industry is able to build its own small steamers using blueprints of friendly nations such as Britain, France, and Russia. The destination of the new merchant ships is not known, but there are plans to expand in new exotic markets soon.

[lukasberger]

The OE has 149300 British prisoners.

[nemethand]

Damn, did just Russia turn to conscription (F1-wise) from feudal? This would be very good for the Russian armed forces.

Unfortunately, not. This will only change with the next ruler, Alexander III, IIRC.

[De_Spinoza]

New administration in China
In the name of our Emperor, by decree of the Empress Dowager,

A new administration has recently been appointed by the Empress Dowager Cixi, naturally with full compliance of the emperor. First of all this will result in a grand restructuring of our army. We hereby wish to assure our neighbours that the many troop movements they will undoubtedly observe in the near future are not of an aggressive nature. Secondly we will revise our relations with several former friends, allies, and enemies. For one we wish to make clear that we hereby freeze all relations with Russia - their occupation of Manchuria remains a flagrant violation of our territorial integrity, and can only be disputed. We do stress, however, that we will pressure the Russian government with diplomatic means only. This brings us to the third consequence of our new policies: all Chinese troops in the territory of allies and friends (most notably those in the Dutch East Indies) will be retreated. The Empress Dowager has decided that our future military and foreign policy will be more peaceful and defensive in nature.

[Vezina]

Reports from the Front

A battle near Frankfurt ends in French victory. The city is under siege currently.

[lukasberger]

Wow! Zombie Napoleon sure has some good stats. As an aside, I think leaders gain skill a bit too easily right now, we have a bunch of military geniuses running around that have stats that are reserved for only the truly elite commanders in the original leader db. Not saying anything can/should be done about it, just an observation.

[Kensai]

I wouldn't say so. Only a handful of nations have 5+ Strategic (that's what counts for really good!) Generals or Admirals. Japan surely is not anywhere near these stats. Well, Germany and France should have some really nice commanders in this era, it is accurate. Later more will come for the rest of us. Nonetheless, you cannot say it is not well-deserved, Germany for example has been in constant war more or less for the best part of the last decade, it is obvious it will have gained some terrific leaders.

Remember, leaders count, but most important is sometimes to know when to RETREAT as annihilation of a unit means total loss of experience for that unit. And some units have fought many conflicts with potentially very high stats (through experience).

[Kensai]

Nagasaki, Japan, April 1874

TAIWANESE SAVAGES KILL PRISONERS

Negotiations have been ongoing for a few months now to free our stranded sailors in Formosa, but after all the aboriginals have killed them. This is an outrage. Is Formosa under control of China or is it not? Why didn't the Chinese stop the massacre in time? We demand explanations from the Chinese regime. If they feel they don't have jurisdiction over the island then Japan might need to punish the perpetrators itself. Rear Admiral Arai will be sent to investigate...

[De_Spinoza]

China denounces Japanese interference
The Empire of China will object to any Japanese-lead investigations to Formosa. The island of Formosa is a territory of our Empire, but indeed several native tribes in the rural inland areas of the island are allowed to maintain their traditional rule of law. We regret the killing of the sailors by the Mou-tan tribesmen, but we must also stress that the sailors violated the territorial pride of this tribe by bluntly moving into their native lands. A Chinese expedition has been send to investigate the exact circumstances of this incident, but considering aggression on part of the intruding sailors can not be ruled out as of now we see no reason to compensate the Japanese government.

But, more importantly, the massacred sailors were from the island of Ryukyu. It were no Japanese citizens! Ryukyu became fully sovereign again after the peace treaty of Okinawa between Japan and Germany, so Japanese involvement in the killing of Ryukyan sailors is completely unfounded. This is above all an incident between Ryukyu and the Chinese Empire. Japan should stay out of this matter which will be resolved by the two sovereign nations actually involved in the incident.

[De_Spinoza]

The Asian Pact
The Empire of China has signed two major treaties with our French and American friends. Our Divine Dowager Empress is confident that this new 'Asian pact' has provided our Empire with a viable new diplomatic framework to base our foreign policy on. This pact should serve as a warning to all oppressive and aggressive regimes currently active in Asia. But this pact is also an invitation to all nations who share our goals: the creation of a more stable and peaceful future for our region.

The Treaty of Paris (the 'treaty')
A Treaty between the Empire of France ('France') and the Qing Empire of China ('China')

The following clauses can be disclosed to the dignitaries of all nations:*
I. France denounces the Russian occupation of Manchuria, and will support China in all efforts to regain this territory.
II. China seeks to reclaim Hong Kong, but only by diplomatic means. France supports this fully peaceful effort.
III. China and France agree to aid each other when either nation is attacked by Germany and/or Russia ('a limited defensive treaty').

*This treaty contains a secret clause.

The Treaty of Washington (the 'treaty')
A Treaty between the United States of America ('The U.S.A.') and the Qing Empire of China ('China')

The following clauses can be disclosed to all nations:*
I. The U.S.A. denounces the Russian occupation of Manchuria, and will support China in all efforts to regain this territory.
II. China seeks to reclaim Hong Kong, but only by diplomatic means. The U.S.A supports this fully peaceful effort.
III. China and the U.S.A agree to aid each other when either nation is attacked by Germany and/or Russia ('a limited defensive treaty').

*This treaty contains a secret clause.

[lukasberger]

Austrian peace offer, conditionally accepted by Germany pending some further negotiation:

Grant Germany control of Erzgebirge (Karlsbad), Russia control of Ostgalizien (Tarnopol) and the OE control of Halaban (one of Austria's Arabian provinces).

[Vezina]

Reports from the Front

Fighting around Frankfurt resulted in the capture of Frankfurt by French units.





A Russian army decimated in the fighting in Wuerttemburg


A German army similarly decimated in the fighting in Wuerttemburg


An inconclusive naval battle off of the coast of Egypt results in the retreat of the German fleet

[De_Spinoza]

Ultimatum to Russia - return Manchuria to China
The United States of America and the Empire of China hereby issue a formal ultimatum to the Empire of Russia: we demand that Manchuria is immediately returned to China, the rightful owner of the Manchu lands. Russia will have to respond before the end of this month [Russia should respond before turn 1874-05-01 is processed]. Should the Empire of Russia reject our ultimatum or fail to respond, the Empire of China and the United States of America will jointly reclaim Manchuria by force [a scripted C.B. for both China and the U.S.A. upon refusal or lack of reply appears reasonable].

The Empire of China for one pledges that it only seeks the reclamation of Manchuria. We will never contest any other Russian territories in Asia, we merely seek the return of lands rightfully ours, taken in a sickening land-grab. But it is clear that the age of oppressors and aggressors will soon be over - also considering the rapid French advances in Germany. We call on the Russians to be reasonable. Accept this ultimatum, for a war in Asia can only be ruinous to the already overstretched Russian Empire.

[Kensai]

(My God, this is France on steroids!! have you been working on your tactics, Vezina? However I do believe once Russia-Germany get their thing going it will be difficult for everyone... at least on paper there is so much firepower it makes your head spin... let's hope you all get reasonable and find a peaceful solution soon... in the meantime the world progresses!)

[Ech Heftag]

## Breaking news: Italian humanitarian mission ambushed by Austrian troops##

Rome. In an unexpected turn of events, Austrian troops, which had requested Italy to conduct peace-keeping operations in Venezia, ambushed a smaller detachment of patrolling Italian troops. The Italian troops returned fire, but retreated soon after. It is not completely clear why they did so, perhaps it was the confusion about the Austrian ambush. In any case, the Italian high command has now authorized the peace-keeping troops to take all necessary steps to bring peace to Austria. As a measure to protect the lives of the innocent and the Italian troops on humanitarian duty, the Austrian ambushers were disarmed today.

[lukasberger]

If the Italians were supposed to be keeping peace in Venezia, what were they doing in Trieste? Several provinces away. I think it's clear just who ambushed whom. Also pretty sure that Austria didn't "request" you to keep peace in Venezia.

[nemethand]

Ultimatum to Russia - return Manchuria to China
The United States of America and the Empire of China hereby issue a formal ultimatum to the Empire of Russia: we demand that Manchuria is immediately returned to China, the rightful owner of the Manchu lands. Russia will have to respond before the end of this month [Russia should respond before turn 1874-05-01 is processed]. Should the Empire of Russia reject our ultimatum or fail to respond, the Empire of China and the United States of America will jointly reclaim Manchuria by force [a scripted C.B. for both China and the U.S.A. upon refusal or lack of reply appears reasonable].

The Empire of China for one pledges that it only seeks the reclamation of Manchuria. We will never contest any other Russian territories in Asia, we merely seek the return of lands rightfully ours, taken in a sickening land-grab. But it is clear that the age of oppressors and aggressors will soon be over - also considering the rapid French advances in Germany. We call on the Russians to be reasonable. Accept this ultimatum, for a war in Asia can only be ruinous to the already overstretched Russian Empire.

Russian reply to Chinese ultimatum

It is interesting to see how quickly the Chinese position changes. Few days ago China expressly said that

New administration in China
In the name of our Emperor, by decree of the Empress Dowager,

For one we wish to make clear that we hereby freeze all relations with Russia - their occupation of Manchuria remains a flagrant violation of our territorial integrity, and can only be disputed. We do stress, however, that we will pressure the Russian government with diplomatic means only. This brings us to the third consequence of our new policies: all Chinese troops in the territory of allies and friends (most notably those in the Dutch East Indies) will be retreated. The Empress Dowager has decided that our future military and foreign policy will be more peaceful and defensive in nature.

Well, obviously, war is the continuation of politics by other means.

But the public should be informed that China has not sent a simple dispatch to Russia discussing the return of Manchuria. Instead, first it tried to refer to "diplomatic means", and now it threatens with war.

If the Chinese position changes faster than the underwear of a man, we can hardly believe anything they say. Including their most recent communication.

If China wants Manchuria back peacefully, it has to negotiate the terms, including the consideration for the return. If it wants to fight for it, it has declare war.

We are open for either possibility.

But it must be remembered that Chinese, Russian and Manchurian businessmen were working together peacefully for the better interest of all the parties involved. Chinese enterprises set up various sites in Manchuria. Russian teachers have established schools to educate the natives in the Western way of living. Russia and China have a healthy trade flow; does China really wish to throw it away?

On a side note, we are surprised that the French and especially the Americans so quickly jumped to support Chinese agression. The USA may recall that very recently Russia acted honourably, upon the American proposal, and accepted a peace offer sent by America, preventing hostilities between our nations. We do hope that America does not wish to throw it all away.



*****

OOC - I definitely want to clarify in advance if a CB will be scripted or, as per the current rules, a forge CB action must be used. In the current case, it is only relevant for the USA, since China has a CB against Russia. But, in the long term, it should be clarified and included in the rules. Thereby, the diplo cost, and the uncertainity of the forge CB may be circumvented, I believe.

[De_Spinoza]

Russian reply to Chinese ultimatum

It is interesting to see how quickly the Chinese position changes. Few days ago China expressly said that



Well, obviously, war is the continuation of politics by other means.

But the public should be informed that China has not sent a simple dispatch to Russia discussing the return of Manchuria. Instead, first it tried to refer to "diplomatic means", and now it threatens with war.

If the Chinese position changes faster than the underwear of a man, we can hardly believe anything they say. Including their most recent communication.

If China wants Manchuria back peacefully, it has to negotiate the terms, including the consideration for the return. If it wants to fight for it, it has declare war.

We are open for either possibility.

But it must be remembered that Chinese, Russian and Manchurian businessmen were working together peacefully for the better interest of all the parties involved. Chinese enterprises set up various sites in Manchuria. Russian teachers have established schools to educate the natives in the Western way of living. Russia and China have a healthy trade flow; does China really wish to throw it away?

On a side note, we are surprised that the French and especially the Americans so quickly jumped to support Chinese agression. The USA may recall that very recently Russia acted honourably, upon the American proposal, and accepted a peace offer sent by America, preventing hostilities between our nations. We do hope that America does not wish to throw it all away.



*****

OOC - I definitely want to clarify in advance if a CB will be scripted or, as per the current rules, a forge CB action must be used. In the current case, it is only relevant for the USA, since China has a CB against Russia. But, in the long term, it should be clarified and included in the rules. Thereby, the diplo cost, and the uncertainity of the forge CB may be circumvented, I believe.

China apologizes for this apparent paradox in our past statements, but we must note that Russia has clearly misinterpreted our diplomatic message. Our statement on using diplomatic means only in our effort to reclaim Manchuria was nothing like a promise and should not be interpreted as such. We did not 'promise' Russia to limit ourselves to diplomatic means. It was an indication, that later, amidst the rapid pace that is inherent to modern international affairs, proved to be false. In any case we are giving the Empire of Russia enough time to ask for terms. We will do everything in our power to resolve this question peacefully.

But, in the end, Russia is occupying Chinese national territory. This is a perfidious insult to our territorial integrity that can only be disputed - militarily and diplomatically. This grave insult to our Empire can not be cured by 'western schools' and 'cooperating businessmen', and the mere suggestion that a limited joint Russo-Chinese economic enterprise in Manchuria counterbalances the perfidious subjugation of the Manchu people is very insulting to say the least. We say to Russia: the era of oppression is over.

[Soulstrider]

Brussels Daily

Last month the German Empire without a warning unlawfully seized Belgian Industrial cities in Germany, such behaviour is unacceptable and deeply hurt the Belgian people. It's has been only a couple of months since our brave troops died fighting as friends of the German people, thousands of noble souls died in the battlefield for a cause we had believe noble and yet now without any real provocation the Germans just discarded our previous friendship like that without a second thought once Belgium was not deemed useful.

[lukasberger]

Peace Treaty between Austria and German Alliance.

This is the current version of the peace treaty, offered by Austria-Hungary which has been provisionally accepted by Germany and Russia, still waiting on the OE. Posted here to allow for public confirmation.

1. For the Ottoman Empire - Austria agrees to transfer the province of Halaban.
Austria also agrees to initiate four state visits in the years 1874-1875, sign a commercial agreement that will last until 1885 and attempt the purchase of the following items each turn during that period of time:
2 mechanical parts
4 minerals
8 supplies
4 fish
2 cotton

2. For Russia - Austria agrees to transfer the province of Przemysl including all structures other than the oilfield. Austria also agrees to transfer the coal pit in Lemberg.
Additionally, Russia will return all units captured from Austria during the course of the war

3. For Germany - Austria agrees to transfer the province of Erzgebirge including all structures

[Sir Garnet]

From the Sublime Porte

The Ottoman Empire agrees to the peace terms.

[Jim-NC]

British Diplomatic Note Regarding the Chinese-American Ultimatum

It is with great sadness that we look upon the recent changes in Chinese Diplomacy. Having seen the horrors of war, and knowing the costs that must be borne by the citizens of the nations at war, we deplore the use of force for the resolution of diplomatic matters.

We urge both sides to solve this issue diplomatically, without resorting to the use of force. Diplomacy is always preferable to aggression.

Lord Gladstone for HM Government

[De_Spinoza]

British Diplomatic Note Regarding the Chinese-American Ultimatum

It is with great sadness that we look upon the recent changes in Chinese Diplomacy. Having seen the horrors of war, and knowing the costs that must be borne by the citizens of the nations at war, we deplore the use of force for the resolution of diplomatic matters.

We urge both sides to solve this issue diplomatically, without resorting to the use of force. Diplomacy is always preferable to aggression.

Lord Gladstone for HM Government

The reclamation of national territory is a fully legitimate objective to pursue by force. Manchuria is not a simple colony to China (as it is treated by Russia); it is the home of the Manchu, a people closely linked to our dynasty and our heritage, which goes back many thousands of years in history. Although we regret the coming war, we fear that we will have to use force because we simply can not afford the price Russia wants us to pay.

[bjfagan]

Germany is saddened too, by how so many nations change the course of their diplomatic actions and principles as quickly as they change underwear.

[nemethand]

The reclamation of national territory is a fully legitimate objective to pursue by force. Manchuria is not a simple colony to China (as it is treated by Russia); it is the home of the Manchu, a people closely linked to our dynasty and our heritage, which goes back many thousands of years in history. Although we regret the coming war, we fear that we will have to use force because we simply can not afford the price Russia wants us to pay.

It is most unfortunate that long and detailed negotiations have not born fruit. The consideration, which was indeed significant but not excessive, China either cannot or does not want to pay.

But as long as not a single fire has been shot, there is always possibilities to settle a dispute amicably. The new Chinese administration should keep this mind.

Just like another fact: when the status quo is perturbed, other powers may also see this as an opportunity to reclaim what had been lost or to grab what they desire. Conflicts may spiral out of control very easily and quickly.

[Ojodeaguila]

British Diplomatic Note Regarding the Chinese-American Ultimatum

It is with great sadness that we look upon the recent changes in Chinese Diplomacy. Having seen the horrors of war, and knowing the costs that must be borne by the citizens of the nations at war, we deplore the use of force for the resolution of diplomatic matters.

We urge both sides to solve this issue diplomatically, without resorting to the use of force. Diplomacy is always preferable to aggression.

Lord Gladstone for HM Government

Lord Gladstone should remember who broke the stability of the world.

[Jim-NC]

The reclamation of national territory is a fully legitimate objective to pursue by force. Manchuria is not a simple colony to China (as it is treated by Russia); it is the home of the Manchu, a people closely linked to our dynasty and our heritage, which goes back many thousands of years in history. Although we regret the coming war, we fear that we will have to use force because we simply can not afford the price Russia wants us to pay.

Reply from Lord Gladstone,

Remember this sentiment after the war is over. Britain has learned through several hard lessons (for example the last war which we admit was started by our nation) that the end of the journey is not where we thought it would be at the start.

If your nation truly can not afford the requested price, then you may find the alternate price too heavy to bear. We bear no ill will towards either country at this time, but simply wish for peace to be a viable diplomatic option.

Lord Gladstone


To the Spanish Ambassador,
We admit that our country has not always been the best neighbor, nor have we always had the best reasons for war, however, we have steered a course of neutrality since we admitted we started the war, and lost it.

Lord Gladstone for HM Government

[unclejoe]

Cherry Pagoda Inn Canton May 1872
Han: The Empress wants Manchuria back.
Chan: Mm-hmm. (Looking North East)
Han: She wants to fight about it, apparently.
Chan: Mm-hmm.
Han: She wants Hong Kong back, too.
Chan: Yes? (Looking toward the window and the British held island)
Han: She doesn't want to fight about it, apparently.
Chan: Oh, good.
Han: France and the U.S. have climbed onboard these notions.
Chan: Fancy that! The Russians are fighting somebody in Europe aren't they?
Han: Yes. But I'm not exactly sure who. Those European countries are so alike.
Chan: But it isn't the French. (looking South toward Indo-China)
Han: No.
Chan: Barkeep, another round!