Siege

[Blind Sniper]

Question about siege that came out during my MP game.

If I understand correctly only Legions can build siege weapons, therefore if I have 100000 soldiers behind a 2+ wall with 50 men inside I'm not able to take the city, is it correct?

Moreover, even if I have a Legion in the region but the territory is not wood I'm not able to build siege weapons, is it correct too?

Thanks

[pantsukki]

Question about siege that came out during my MP game.

If I understand correctly only Legions can build siege weapons, therefore if I have 100000 soldiers behind a 2+ wall with 50 men inside I'm not able to take the city, is it correct?

Thanks

The legion-built siege engines just speed up the siege, they are not a requirement for the surrender.

[Bertram]

No, every army can reduce the walls (maybe except a cavalry only army). The siege engines modify the "die roll" that is done each turn to determine the result of the siege (defender repairs wall, nothing, hits to the defender, breach, surrender). Other modfiers are the leadership capabilities(engineer/siege specialist and fort defender).
Apart from tis you can always starve the defenders (quite easily in AJE actually, compared to some other titels with the AGEOD engine).
Not usre about the woods - that is, I am quie sure I have seen siege engines in non-wooded terrain, but am not sure what the algorithm is. Maybe adjacent regions count, or the chance is less in non-wooded, but not zero?

[Blind Sniper]

Thanks for the answers.
In my game I have a medium forze (200+ power) sieging a small force (about 50 power) in a 2 city fort and are three turns that I'm waiting without any success, no leader bonus but my force is infantry at least. It seems too much for a such garrison but maybe is just unlucky rolls.

[Narwhal]

I did a beginner's corner at the end of this AAR, with the siege rules : http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?632034-The-Hero-The-Traitor-and-The-Barbarian-an-AJE-PBEM-Beginner-AAR/page3

Here is a copy :

Beginner’s corner – Sieges, or how to take structures

Sometimes, your target is hidden behind high walls. There are several ways to take them.

- Assault

Assault is the fastest method, but also the messiest. The defenders will have a bonus of defense, and will fight with despair as they have no way out. Hence, it is to avoid if you don’t have numerical absolute superiority.You can give the order to your troops to assault the enemy structure, but there are conditions :

- It there is no fort, or a fort level 1 only, the structure can be assaulted at any time (except by cavalry)



- If there is a fort level 2 or more, then

o Either the leader of the stack has the assaulter trait, or



o The fort has as many levels of breach as its level (2 for a level 2 fort,̷)

But how do you make these breaches ? Well, that’s the second way to take a city : siege.

- Sieges

A siege has two objectives :
A. Starve the city,
B. Prepare for assault or even force the opponent to surrender

A. When you are sieging a city, the city does not receive supplies (except from its port if it is not blockaded). To see if the city is receiving supply, hover the mouse on it. For instance, this city does not receive any :
Generally speaking, if a player has less than 10% military control in an area, his structures will not receive any supply.



B. In addition to starving the defenders, having a city under siege allows for a “siege roll” at the start of every turn.
OK. I lied, it is actually two rolls (12-faces dices), one for the attacker, one for the defender. The difference between those two rolls is then modified :

o By leader traits, if any (for attack or for defense),
o By the power of the artillery available for either side,
o By the level of the fort minus the number of breaches.
o By a massive additional malus if the structure is breached, the defender is out of supply and is weaker than the attacker.

The final result is the Siege Roll Value (SRV). Depending on the SRV (from worse to best), the following events can occur :
- The defenders close a breach
- The defenders receive hits
- The fort receives a breach – provided that the attacker has some artillery in his stacks

In addition, if the SRV is above the defending units average discipline, the defenders will directly surrender, except if they have not empty supply wagons (fixed or not – magazine units are enough), in which case they only have 10% of chance to surrender.



- Blockade

You can siege without blockading, but if you want to starve your opponent efficiently, you have to blockade his port (if any). For this, you only need to drop enough combat ships in front of his port.



- A last note about siege weapons

AJE is unlike any previous AGEOD game in that your armies do not typically bring artillery with them. Yet, you need them to do breaches, so they are extremely strategic. There are two “models” :

- Roman legions can build siege machines whenever they finish their turn on an enemy structure (up to one per legion at any time). Those machines will be destroyed when the legions move out.

Here is a Roman legion that just built its ballistae :



- Everyone else has to carry their siege machines the difficult way – from their home province. They slow their stacks, cannot go everywhere, and are generally a pain. Moving them by ships (the AI does it) can save a lot of time !



End of beginner’s corner

[Blind Sniper]

Thanks for the beginner's corner but what about my second questions? (in which region you can build balistae).
If you know the answer of course.

Anyhow I don't know exactly how the siege rolls are calculated but I see several times few soldiers stand for months against strong enemy forces because you cannot volontary assault a fort level 2, now we have 30 days per turn and I don't think is correct.
Understand for big and well defended city but for small city with a merely 2 fort no, now if the dice are not so kind I have to spent months to take a city with very few defenders inside...

[yellow ribbon]

Moreover, even if I have a Legion in the region but the territory is not wood I'm not able to build siege weapons, is it correct too?

maybe this helps you out, its a known issue in game:

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?26476-Ballista-creation-rules

[yellow ribbon]

i dont have the actual dice roll-calculation, the devs can tell you for sure, but RULES applied for AIE, Game logic file

// ********************************************************
// ***** SIEGES *****
// ********************************************************

sieValueForSiegeBonus = 18 // How many [color="#FF0000"]Artillery Combat Pts[/color] needed to get a +1/-1 modifier to siege
sieOutcomeDiceRollSides = 12 // Sides of the Siege Outcome roll / compared to [color="#FF0000"]TQ/Discipline[/color]
sieWagonDepotProtectChance = 90 // [color="#FF0000"]Chance[/color] that a non empty depot/wagon protects against surrender
aseProdCoefLocked = 100 // Percent of base supply when under siege with port unblocked
sieExtraModifier = 0 // Extra Modifier (positive: help the besieger)
sieSurrenderModEndangered =- 3 // [color="#FF0000"]If structure breached, lack of supply and weaker than besieger, get this penalty to surrender[/color]

// Cavalry in sieges and assaults

// you don't want the cav to assault any city or fort, even if it is breached (= almost no structure can be assaulted by cavalry)
cbtSkipCavOnAssaultCity = 1
cbtSkipCavOnAssaultFortB = 1


// Not used: you don't want cav to assault, unless this is a city or a breached fort (= only a non breached fort is a problem):
// cbtSkipCavOnAssaultFortNB = 1

[Blind Sniper]

Thanks Yellow Ribbon for the detailed info

Pocus said: There will be a fix for this loophole in the next patch. Until now I guess you have to starve them to death or wait for breaches to appears if you have a siege leader.

It means that "at the moment" even if you have a very strong force without leader with siege trait you have to starve the garrison before to take a fort 2, no matter how the garrison is strong and if you are in terrain devoid of wood you cannot build siege weapons (fine in the desert but in Europe not enough trees to build some ballista in this era I think is a bit harsh as rule).

Therefore you can have 20000 legionaries waiting for months behind a fort level 2 with 50 men inside if you are unlucky with the dice rolls.

[PhilThib]

Only desert terrain impedes the construction of siege engines since the patch, so the situation you describe won't occur in the rest of Europe.

[Blind Sniper]

Only desert terrain impedes the construction of siege engines since the patch, so the situation you describe won't occur in the rest of Europe.

Perfect thanks!

[bob.]

On the topic of siege, just so I know how to react against such a situation, maybe someone can give me some numbers...
in a situation like this:

The attachment siegeylkno.png is no longer available

(level 3 fort with level 8 harbour, supply level 31, no enemy siege weapons nor legions)
how big is the chance that this siege actually ever is over? Can it actually happen?
I suppose supply is not a concern with supply level 31 and no enemy ships. Can they still surrender? Or will they hold out for years?

[Jim-NC]

In the old days, there was no supply going to the defenders, so they would eventually surrender. The 1.01 patch was to fix that, so that harbors gave supply. So if working as advertised, then the defenders will never surrender due to starvation. Those trying to lay siege will need siege weapons (should be built in the home area and marched to the site of the siege). Thus, the Romans can just sit there and laugh at the LUsitanii (until they get siege weapons there that is).

[Narwhal]

Well, depends on the size of the port. If the port is too small, it will not be sufficient.

[bob.]

But now I am wondering: when I was playing as Sertorius I was laying siege to Carthago Nova, too - and they surrendered! After 3 turns - and I had no legions. The defenders were supplied, too.
So how was that possible?