i also could find no reference to frontage limits in this game.
Ben, I do not know your previous AGEOD experience but i will give some basics. A Roman legion consists of usually 10 elements, other units generally 3-5 elements.
Clear terrain frontage in this is probably something like 8-12 elements wide, while closed terrain, hills, woods, is probably 4-8 elements wide. This can be used by a smaller army to not get overrun by a larger army.
Mike
Ben, I do not know your previous AGEOD experience but i will give some basics. A Roman legion consists of usually 10 elements, other units generally 3-5 elements.
Clear terrain frontage in this is probably something like 8-12 elements wide, while closed terrain, hills, woods, is probably 4-8 elements wide. This can be used by a smaller army to not get overrun by a larger army.
Mike
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Huskalator
- Conscript
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:29 am
Huskalator wrote:Is there a way to bypass enemy controlled cities and move on when moving through a territory?
I have tried green-green but my posture is automatically changed to orange as soon as I enter the territory.
If you enter a region with less than ??? % military control in your favour, your units will automatically revert to attack. But as long as the forces in a city exert no zone of control you can move a force in such an offensive stance through the region (it's only assault (red) where your forces will try to assault the enemy city)...
P.S: An inactive force (which cannot set stance above defensive (blue)) will also be forced into attack (orange) and fight at a great disadvantage, so better not move an inactive force anywhere you don't control and where an enemy force might be lurking...
Marc aka Caran...
The frontage Beginner's Corner is available.
Beginner’s Corner : Frontage
One of my few issues with AGEOD games is that battles are a bit of a blackbox. You know what gets in, you get a result, but you do not know what happened. AGEOD has been trying to improve this in the last games, but battles are still complex events, hard to decipher.
Right now, we are going to talk about frontage ; when knowing who won a battle, troop quality or leader quality is obvious, but frontage is less so.
Frontage is the number of troops (or more accurately, the number of points of “frontage weight” of troops) that can take part in a given round in a battle. As you know, there is little point outnumbering your opponent 10 000 to 300 if your opponent is holding a pass where only 300 men can stand. Well, yes there is a point because you can replace your men that fell, but you get the idea.
Each terrain in the game has, for a given weather, a “maximum” frontage and a “frontage weight” by type of troops.
This information is in your AE/GameData/Terrain in notepad file, here is for instance the effect of Hills by clear weather for frontage :
The important information is the unit weight by type and the maximum frontage for combat unit [Combat_Units_Quota].
There is also a maximum frontage for support unit (siege weapons, supply wagons, HQ units), but AJE is not Revolution Under Siege, so you will never or almost never reach the maximum frontage in a batlle, so I will ignore it. Basically, it works just like “combat frontage”.
Finally, there is a “Combat_Units_OffCost” data. It is a malus for units in attack in frontage – mostly used for crossing, assault of cities, … In this case, there is no malus (100%), except for support units but remember, in AJE we don’t care for support units
The “type” of units from the Frontage point of view is the movement type. Here are two examples :
Note that, for this purpose, “Line Infantry” means “Medium Infantry”. Don’t ask me why.
I opened a new Sulla vs Marius scenario and I am going to now launch a few clashes on hilly terrain with clear weather between the starting armies of Archelaos and Sulla. Archelaos is on offense (this is important, we will see that later).
Here is the weight of every element involved :
Note that I did not mention the Legatus Legionis element of the legion. I did not because it is considered a support unit, and thus would be on the support unit frontage, if it ever engaged – which it does not. You can see it there :
Now, here is the result of our first test (detailed information) :
On the detailed sheet, you have the number of elements committed for each unit. This allows you to check that the maximum frontage of 130 is respected by both sides.
There is a small quirk with the Romans, as I don’t know, for Legions, whether cavalry or cohorts committed. Yet, since there is 10 cohorts for one cavalry element, I can suppose that only 1 cavalry element committed out of the 11 legion elements. In any case, the results are the same.
Now, let’s suppose another scenario : the Roman attack the Pontics, who are then in defense. The battle occurs, and the Pontics are getting beaten silly, as usually.
So here is the calculation for frontage weight committed:
As you can see, the Pontics went well beyond the 130 limit for frontage. Why ? Because Archeleos has a deployment bonus when in defense :
This trait adds 20% to his frontage, if and only if he is in defense.
130 * 1,2 = 156, so the frontage limit is actually respected in this battle. Note that the Romans are stuck at 130 frontage.
Now, let’s see a last case. Clear terrain, mud (=rain) :
Archelaos is once again in attack, in clear terrain. And here are the results :
The number of elements involved is obviously way above what the frontage would allow. Why ?
There is special bonus to know ; in open terrain only (clear, prairie, desert, wood), the Units Quotas are modified by leader rank and offensive / defensive whether he in offensive or defensive posture:
• Combat Units Quota : bonus of 25 * [Rank + Rating] bonus frontage
• Support Units Quota: bonus of 10 * [Rank + Rating] bonus frontage
Given this information, here is a calculation of the maximum frontage :
The frontage rule is respected.
Should I remember all this ?
No !
What you should remember, though, is that :
- You won’t beat legions (or Caesar’s veterans, or Sulla's crack troops) by number alone, you will beat them by number IF you can find a place where you can bring your superior number AND a leader with a strong skill
- Clear terrain with no rain is a must if you are playing number against quality
As you can see, in clear terrain by clear weather the maximum frontage does not change but the “weight” of units is almost half of the one rainy weather. The two initial forces of Archaleos and Sulla can commit at 100% if you ever did this – and Archaleos gets a beating
- Mixing poor quality units with good quality units can be a bad idea, as your poor quality units will use up frontage without the punch.
IMPORTANT NOTE : To take the examples in this AAR, I used the beta version of the Terrain files. As of 1.00, those have changed :
Hill frontage is now 200
Clear terrain frontage is now 270.
The weights have not changed.
One of my few issues with AGEOD games is that battles are a bit of a blackbox. You know what gets in, you get a result, but you do not know what happened. AGEOD has been trying to improve this in the last games, but battles are still complex events, hard to decipher.
Right now, we are going to talk about frontage ; when knowing who won a battle, troop quality or leader quality is obvious, but frontage is less so.
Frontage is the number of troops (or more accurately, the number of points of “frontage weight” of troops) that can take part in a given round in a battle. As you know, there is little point outnumbering your opponent 10 000 to 300 if your opponent is holding a pass where only 300 men can stand. Well, yes there is a point because you can replace your men that fell, but you get the idea.
Each terrain in the game has, for a given weather, a “maximum” frontage and a “frontage weight” by type of troops.
This information is in your AE/GameData/Terrain in notepad file, here is for instance the effect of Hills by clear weather for frontage :
The important information is the unit weight by type and the maximum frontage for combat unit [Combat_Units_Quota].
There is also a maximum frontage for support unit (siege weapons, supply wagons, HQ units), but AJE is not Revolution Under Siege, so you will never or almost never reach the maximum frontage in a batlle, so I will ignore it. Basically, it works just like “combat frontage”.
Finally, there is a “Combat_Units_OffCost” data. It is a malus for units in attack in frontage – mostly used for crossing, assault of cities, … In this case, there is no malus (100%), except for support units but remember, in AJE we don’t care for support units
The “type” of units from the Frontage point of view is the movement type. Here are two examples :
Note that, for this purpose, “Line Infantry” means “Medium Infantry”. Don’t ask me why.
I opened a new Sulla vs Marius scenario and I am going to now launch a few clashes on hilly terrain with clear weather between the starting armies of Archelaos and Sulla. Archelaos is on offense (this is important, we will see that later).
Here is the weight of every element involved :
Note that I did not mention the Legatus Legionis element of the legion. I did not because it is considered a support unit, and thus would be on the support unit frontage, if it ever engaged – which it does not. You can see it there :
Now, here is the result of our first test (detailed information) :
On the detailed sheet, you have the number of elements committed for each unit. This allows you to check that the maximum frontage of 130 is respected by both sides.
There is a small quirk with the Romans, as I don’t know, for Legions, whether cavalry or cohorts committed. Yet, since there is 10 cohorts for one cavalry element, I can suppose that only 1 cavalry element committed out of the 11 legion elements. In any case, the results are the same.
Now, let’s suppose another scenario : the Roman attack the Pontics, who are then in defense. The battle occurs, and the Pontics are getting beaten silly, as usually.
So here is the calculation for frontage weight committed:
As you can see, the Pontics went well beyond the 130 limit for frontage. Why ? Because Archeleos has a deployment bonus when in defense :
This trait adds 20% to his frontage, if and only if he is in defense.
130 * 1,2 = 156, so the frontage limit is actually respected in this battle. Note that the Romans are stuck at 130 frontage.
Now, let’s see a last case. Clear terrain, mud (=rain) :
Archelaos is once again in attack, in clear terrain. And here are the results :
The number of elements involved is obviously way above what the frontage would allow. Why ?
There is special bonus to know ; in open terrain only (clear, prairie, desert, wood), the Units Quotas are modified by leader rank and offensive / defensive whether he in offensive or defensive posture:
• Combat Units Quota : bonus of 25 * [Rank + Rating] bonus frontage
• Support Units Quota: bonus of 10 * [Rank + Rating] bonus frontage
Given this information, here is a calculation of the maximum frontage :
The frontage rule is respected.
Should I remember all this ?
No !
What you should remember, though, is that :
- You won’t beat legions (or Caesar’s veterans, or Sulla's crack troops) by number alone, you will beat them by number IF you can find a place where you can bring your superior number AND a leader with a strong skill
- Clear terrain with no rain is a must if you are playing number against quality
As you can see, in clear terrain by clear weather the maximum frontage does not change but the “weight” of units is almost half of the one rainy weather. The two initial forces of Archaleos and Sulla can commit at 100% if you ever did this – and Archaleos gets a beating
- Mixing poor quality units with good quality units can be a bad idea, as your poor quality units will use up frontage without the punch.
IMPORTANT NOTE : To take the examples in this AAR, I used the beta version of the Terrain files. As of 1.00, those have changed :
Hill frontage is now 200
Clear terrain frontage is now 270.
The weights have not changed.
-
yellow ribbon
- Posts: 2245
- Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:42 pm
excellent work, but would have been good to open an own thread therefor, makes it more easy to find and relink. as its a common question till now... 
...not paid by AGEOD.
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
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