Drastic Loyalty Drop

[FelixZ]

Computer: iMac 3.06 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo; 12 GB 1067 MHz DDR3; Parallels Desktop 7.

In a moderated three player Marius vs Sulla, we've had a 50% drop in PON loyalty. The drop came after an Optimates assault to take Athenae from Pontus. Defending Pontic force was Achaian Force, Corinthian Force and Athina Garrision.

Pontic stacks were completely destroyed. A Galatia event fired which gave several Asia Minor regions to Optimates along with a Galatia army in Alcyra. The net result was 100% Optimate loyalty in all regions (except Byzanthium and Thracia) having Potus Military Control.

The turn was re-run many times with the same results with one exception. Pontic armies retreat toward Chalcis and there was no Galatia event.. The Pontic losses at Athenae were 22,000+ and the loyalty drop was only 25%.

Two questions:

1) is a 25% loyalty drop normal for losing a strategic city?

2) is the Galatia event supposed to affect all of Asia Minor?

How can I upload zipped game files to you?

[yellow ribbon]

Athen has its own event which practically eliminates it, as in history, out of the game.

if you have already Galatian switchover, you are close to peace negotiation and Optimates need only the objectives.
if liberating Cappadocian territory OPT would be able to install them and PON looses 2/3 of the original territory, the game represents it by the loyalty drop.

but i agree, its a too big jump and said so during beta tests. however, as the PON could be forced up a peace by OPT, its up to you to avoid this, before thinking about loyalty

Byzanthium was an own faction, seized by PON the first turns

and Thracia is an own faction, as an own nation which gets only by event/option into this war, they are to be seen apart of PON home regions

[Bohémond]

Computer: iMac 3.06 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo; 12 GB 1067 MHz DDR3; Parallels Desktop 7.

In a moderated three player Marius vs Sulla, we've had a 50% drop in PON loyalty. The drop came after an Optimates assault to take Athenae from Pontus. Defending Pontic force was Achaian Force, Corinthian Force and Athina Garrision.

Pontic stacks were completely destroyed. A Galatia event fired which gave several Asia Minor regions to Optimates along with a Galatia army in Alcyra. The net result was 100% Optimate loyalty in all regions (except Byzanthium and Thracia) having Potus Military Control.

The turn was re-run many times with the same results with one exception. Pontic armies retreat toward Chalcis and there was no Galatia event.. The Pontic losses at Athenae were 22,000+ and the loyalty drop was only 25%.

Two questions:

1) is a 25% loyalty drop normal for losing a strategic city?

2) is the Galatia event supposed to affect all of Asia Minor?

How can I upload zipped game files to you?

Could you provide ScriptFolder, in a archive format, to allow us to check the Galatia issue ?

Regards

[FelixZ]

[quote="yellow ribbon"]Athen has its own event which practically eliminates it, as in history, out of the game.

Could you clarify the Athenae event as to what causes it to fire and the results?

The Galatian switchover in this game happened during 87 Mar.

What causes the Galatian event to fire, and what are the results?

[if you have already Galatian switchover, you are close to peace negotiation and Optimates need only the objectives.]

What do you mean by "close to peace negotiation"?

[if liberating Cappadocian territory OPT would be able to install them and PON looses 2/3 of the original territory]

There were 6 regions under Optimates control - is this the 2/3 of original Celt territory?

[but i agree, its a too big jump and said so during beta tests. however, as the PON could be forced up a peace by OPT]

Are you saying that PON could be forced to make peace at this time in the game, along with other conditions ?

What exactly are these conditions?

[ its up to you to avoid this]

Okay, is the loss of Athenae avoidable?

[yellow ribbon]

i will send you a list of the event condition as a private mail from the files, with short explanation. would be unfair to spoil the fun for others

For Athen, well its the Fall of Athen, thus as soon it is taken from Sulla, plundered.

**************************************************************

as for the question how to make a bug report

please see

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?25861-How-to-report-a-bug

and if you still have the turn when the Gallatian event fires, please make a copy and upload it with at least the script report.
issue is know, but better for the developers to have a file which is from the public version.

[FelixZ]

How can I email the ScriptFolder to you. Unable to add attachments within Forum messages.

[yellow ribbon]

if you write a message click on GO ADVANCED

then use the paper clip button and you can attach a maximum of 5 files with each having a maximum of somewhat over 4 MB

[lycortas2]

Okay, i found several errors in event files for this scenario.

The error that most applies here is the 'Galatia revolts' event. It causes 'PON -100 loyalty Asia Minor'. Game over man, game over. Also , 'Athens Falls' causes -25 loyalty in all of Asia Minor for PON. I know this is not an error in and of itself but I think it should be -25 PON loyalty in Ionia and maybe Bythnia. Not all of Asia Minor.

If you guys feel that this is WAD i will make a mod event file for this scenario.

Michael

[yellow ribbon]

1.) as i said, its known from [color="#FF0000"]BETA test[/color]. my last report is 5 weeks old

2.)

i have an open game and get following:

"Asia minor" region 100% loy. to Optimates (western turkey, most parts of North turkey )

Lycia region has still split loyalty

Cilicia region has still split loyalty

Syria Coeleregion has still split loyalty (inherited to Pontian by event)

Melitene region outside of neutral territory the military regains loyalty for Pontians

Iberia gets Pontian/barbarian split if other events fired close by

Caucasus/Crimean THE HOME OF PONTIANS remains 100% loyal

Thracians as potential allies as well as seized territory in "Europe" are not effected

************

if you looked into the file,

you would know that the Galatian region gets 100% loy. whatever else is going on, roughly 1/5 of Asia minor thereby

for Optimates at all, many regions around are not effected in my test game, but the west, which should be seized before the Gallatian event chain should kick in (from my opinion, as larger stacks will be Nicomedia, Sinope and Ephesus and you have to win a decisive victory to trigger)

even if not getting 100% (loyalty was there before) the increase of BOTH Gallatian events is [color="#FF0000"]2x15=30 [/color], dropping to sometimes less than 20% remaining loyalty IF THAT GLITCH WOULD NOT BE THERE

while the second Gallatian event has a probability of 20%

there are other events which can happen after -85 and totally have the opposite effect. nilling up to 75% loy. of Opt. if PON would be on the winning side


*****************

3) remains:

please provide script report from the vanilla version, so he can check it for sure. thank you

[yellow ribbon]

PS:

another 1/5 goes to the Cappadocians which CAN be installed if you know how, within two turns after Galatians uprise

by the moment the Galatian event fires, whether with the glitch or nor, you can practically have lost over 50% of Pontian mainland.
AND you can already have the option to negotiate peace

[lycortas2]

I am unsure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me, but Asia Minor is, in game, 80% of Asia Minor. Pontus is the home region of the Pontics not Crimea or the Caucasus. Losing Athens and having the Galatia event fire on the same turn cost -50 loyalty to PON on March of the first year. This makes the game impossible for Pontus, and as i am a doctor of Greek studies, i will tell you that the fall of Athens did not make the Pontus region hate it's king. There were (small) Greek cities in Pontus but the vast majority of the people were Asiatic.

I think the Athens event should hurt Pontic morale in Ionia and Bithynia. The Galatia event should hurt Pontic morale in Galatia and Cappadocia only.

Also Pergamum is too small. Why is it smaller than Smyrna in 87bce? Smyrna did not gain in size until the river Mezander (actually a tributary) silted up Ephesus' harbour.

Mike

[yellow ribbon]

Agreeing!

***********

PS:

this part:

I think the Athens event should hurt Pontic morale in Ionia and Bithynia. The Galatia event should hurt Pontic morale in Galatia and Cappadocia only.

Also Pergamum is too small. Why is it smaller than Smyrna in 87bce? Smyrna did not gain in size until the river Mezander (actually a tributary) silted up Ephesus' harbour.

Mike

can we carry that frward in the improvement of AIE thread. i am sure they will be happy to use it as a base of further balancing as soon they are out of bugfixing

[Yorick]

I'm the Sulla player in the game in discussion.
Is there a reason all of Anatolia, including Pontus province, has 50% Optimates loyalty at the start of the scenario?
I've read the events file and the Fall of Athens and the 2 Galatian events combined give altogether a loss of -55 loyalty in Asia Minor which of course brings all Pontus loyalty to 0. As this does not allow Pontus to recruit anywhere it's pretty much a death sentence.
If Mithridates had 100% loyalty in his home province and then decreasing loyalty outwards getting to 50% in provinces like Ionia and Bithinia it would allow Pontus to survive the loyalty drop a bit better.

[yellow ribbon]

i make only an educated guess, but

history, Romans intervened -92 / –95 BC.

western Anatolia was conquered around -88. over 80.000 pro-Romans and Romans were killed

Galatians were pro Roman for a long time,

Cappadocians just pushed around from nearly everyone,

Romans intervened openly on behalf of Bythina more than once...

Thats why it came to open war, Mithridates VI of Pontus saw his chance. thats also why you have to "declare" war... Romans were considered weak, busy

[yellow ribbon]

PS:

even Sinope got its importance AFTER -88, when the royaly family moved there, coming from Amaseia

[Yorick]

After running more tests it seems that there are 2 more events (The Deportation of Chios and the Revolt of Ephesus) that give PON big loyalty losses all over Anatolia.
Given the number of such events it seems unavoidable that PON loyalty will fall to 0 in all of Anatolia within a few months in any PBEM game.

[yellow ribbon]

ANOTHER EVENT CHAIN !

Athen happens "always"

Chios Deportation happens as a possible consequence with probability 20%

if it triggered ,as a consequence Ephesus Revolt with another 20% probability

[color="#B22222"]0,04

= 4% probability that it happens[/color] both


as the Galatians are triggered from a different event chain which depends on huge military losses, it has to bee seen independent from that.

as stated several times, if you end that way, you are clearly on the loosing side. if you would be winning, the Optimates would loose loy. by several events., you could have even negotiate favorable peace in Greece already.

the only exploitable is, when any player is concentrating more on Pontics than on Populares or Pontics are melting away

[Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne]

I ran into this problem as the Pontics. Loyalty drops to 0 across the board within a few months because of these events and there's really nothing you can do about it.

[Bohémond]

We are working on it.

Should be a lot of improvement in next patch.


Thank you for reporting.

Regards