By the way, while personaly not very knowledgeable about the 30Y'sW (to my shame), I could spread news of such a published game in re-enactment circles (yes, I do 17th century re-enactment, which makes my lack of knowledge of that conflict even more shameful, my only excuse is that my re-enactment mostly focuses on the 13th and 14th century, but that my old club does 17th century as well and as I used to be very much of a group player...)...
P.S.: 30 Y'sW re-enactment is particularly strong in Germany and out East it seems. English Civil War folk might be another crowd that could be interested in such a game...
I would buy an AGEOD game on the Thirty Years War in a heartbeat, with or without a Polish Deluge.
The problem, I think, is one of education. Americans are lucky if they've heard of the French Revolution, though it has become so fashionable to be anti-French that I doubt anyone would admit that it was important. Napoleon tends to escape that problem because he's a culture icon. But if you mention the English Civil War (which was critically important to American political evolution), you'll either get a blank stare or they'll think you're talking about the American Civil War. I really doubt that the Thirty Years War is on anyone's radar.
Even in Europe, I wonder how many people could identify the Treaty of Westphalia, never mind the date. The other night I was at a party with the father of a girl who had fallen a dozen floors down a smokestack into a deep pile of soot and lived (badly smashed up, but alive). He was quite well educated, but when I mentioned the defenstration of Prague he didn't know what I was talking about. I did meet an American once who knew what it was, but he was a high school student studying for his regency exams.
The problem, I think, is one of education. Americans are lucky if they've heard of the French Revolution, though it has become so fashionable to be anti-French that I doubt anyone would admit that it was important. Napoleon tends to escape that problem because he's a culture icon. But if you mention the English Civil War (which was critically important to American political evolution), you'll either get a blank stare or they'll think you're talking about the American Civil War. I really doubt that the Thirty Years War is on anyone's radar.
Even in Europe, I wonder how many people could identify the Treaty of Westphalia, never mind the date. The other night I was at a party with the father of a girl who had fallen a dozen floors down a smokestack into a deep pile of soot and lived (badly smashed up, but alive). He was quite well educated, but when I mentioned the defenstration of Prague he didn't know what I was talking about. I did meet an American once who knew what it was, but he was a high school student studying for his regency exams.
I really do know how to spell defenestration. This darned things skips letters when I write, and then no matter what I do or however many times I try to log it, it simply won't let me edit my posts.
Moderators, please do something. I'm losing enough hairs as it is without having to tear any more out over this!
Moderators, please do something. I'm losing enough hairs as it is without having to tear any more out over this!
Philippe wrote:I would buy an AGEOD game on the Thirty Years War in a heartbeat, with or without a Polish Deluge.
The problem, I think, is one of education. Americans are lucky if they've heard of the French Revolution, though it has become so fashionable to be anti-French that I doubt anyone would admit that it was important. Napoleon tends to escape that problem because he's a culture icon. But if you mention the English Civil War (which was critically important to American political evolution), you'll either get a blank stare or they'll think you're talking about the American Civil War. I really doubt that the Thirty Years War is on anyone's radar.
Even in Europe, I wonder how many people could identify the Treaty of Westphalia, never mind the date. The other night I was at a party with the father of a girl who had fallen a dozen floors down a smokestack into a deep pile of soot and lived (badly smashed up, but alive). He was quite well educated, but when I mentioned the defenstration of Prague he didn't know what I was talking about. I did meet an American once who knew what it was, but he was a high school student studying for his regency exams.
When you consider how important the treaty of Westfalia was for international relations and diplomacy until very recently (Sovereignty of Nations) it's a shame that indeed so few know about it...
My own lack of knowledge of this conflict is largely based on a change of schools early in my scolarisation. I left one school studying Imperial Rome in history and jumped to the Defenestration of Prague in the other. Later I learned about much of the missing 1500 years (I'm a self taught 13th century specialist, my college studies having been to the contrary 19th and 20th century radicalism), but for some reason the 30 Y'sW always remained obscure to me, even after joining that re-enactment outfit (I know that the town I live in these days was burned down twice, ransomed once and ravaged by the plague (in a larger sense) at least once during that war, but beyond this very local knowledge hardly anything)...
Marc aka Caran...
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Bruit Bleu
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Although I have a lot of interest in Ancien Régime history and ardently desire wargames that brillantly depicts the period, I think the major flaw of designing scenarios for such wars is accuracy of available OOB, when they are not totally missing !
Until now, Ageod databases needed precise OOB with detailled stats for various units and countries, they're not generic wargames...
Until now, Ageod databases needed precise OOB with detailled stats for various units and countries, they're not generic wargames...
I would love to branch out from the WiA scenarios I have made to something bigger - but the snag is always the lack of map and graphics. As a spare time modder one never knows how much time will be available so you can't ask somebody to make a map and then find there is no time to make the game after somebody has put so much effort in.
As per the Peloponnesian War. The heart is willing but there may never be enough time.
http://www.ageod-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=260
Cheers, Chris
As per the Peloponnesian War. The heart is willing but there may never be enough time.
http://www.ageod-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=260
Cheers, Chris
It will never happen, but what I would love to see would be a WIA add-on that covered the independance wars in Latin America.
If it devoted enough space to Simon Bolivar (and it would have to), I'm sure you could convince Hugo Chavez to order his military to buy hundreds of copies for the training academies. If the game included several scenarios on the liberation of each country, it could be a runaway best-seller in certain military circles.
Just make sure the sales are cash only (defense ministries are funny about paying their bills).
If it devoted enough space to Simon Bolivar (and it would have to), I'm sure you could convince Hugo Chavez to order his military to buy hundreds of copies for the training academies. If the game included several scenarios on the liberation of each country, it could be a runaway best-seller in certain military circles.
Just make sure the sales are cash only (defense ministries are funny about paying their bills).
Hobbes wrote:I would love to branch out from the WiA scenarios I have made to something bigger - but the snag is always the lack of map and graphics. As a spare time modder one never knows how much time will be available so you can't ask somebody to make a map and then find there is no time to make the game after somebody has put so much effort in.
As per the Peloponnesian War. The heart is willing but there may never be enough time.
http://www.ageod-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=260
Cheers, Chris
The problems with the two mod projects (Peloponnesian War and Punic Wars) makes me doubt the 2012 mod is on one of those two topics. Though one comment by Phillippe T. makes me wonder whether the second project hasn't continued in silence...
These days I'm totally tied up timewise with work, two hobbies and one existing research project. I doubt I could find time to help much with a mod project unlike a few years ago...
Marc aka Caran...
Hobbes wrote:I would love to branch out from the WiA scenarios I have made to something bigger - but the snag is always the lack of map and graphics. As a spare time modder one never knows how much time will be available so you can't ask somebody to make a map and then find there is no time to make the game after somebody has put so much effort in.
As per the Peloponnesian War. The heart is willing but there may never be enough time.
http://www.ageod-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=260
Cheers, Chris
And what happened with John Sedgwick? He seemed interested...
Anyway I am assuming that the expansions PhilThib talked about regarding the new game will be ancient Mediterranean and so the Peloponnesian War
Philippe wrote:It will never happen, but what I would love to see would be a WIA add-on that covered the independance wars in Latin America.
If it devoted enough space to Simon Bolivar (and it would have to), I'm sure you could convince Hugo Chavez to order his military to buy hundreds of copies for the training academies. If the game included several scenarios on the liberation of each country, it could be a runaway best-seller in certain military circles.
Just make sure the sales are cash only (defense ministries are funny about paying their bills).
Cash shouldn't be a problem for the Bolivarian Republic, or at least refined petrol which I expect is better than cash these days ;-) . I could even refresh my connections with the Venezuelan Ambassy in Brussels if need be :-) ...
Marc aka Caran...
It's difficult to spend years to make a decent Peloponnesian or 30Y War mod - the time span would make it difficult to balance a full campaign + the periods of inactivity.
It would be a huge amount of work for a single modder. A smaller conflict lasting a few years would be possible though using the WiA engine.
If anyone is able to make a map and graphics for any 3 - 5 year (ish) conflict let me know. I would be interested in that.
Cheers, Chris
It would be a huge amount of work for a single modder. A smaller conflict lasting a few years would be possible though using the WiA engine.
If anyone is able to make a map and graphics for any 3 - 5 year (ish) conflict let me know. I would be interested in that.
Cheers, Chris
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Franciscus
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Regarding the 30 years war, and speaking as a Portuguese, I must say that conflict is barely mentioned in our formal education. Even I when first saw it mentioned in game's forums, could hardly remember anything besides that it was a religious war (protestant vs catholics), in which the northern european countries were so happy to indulge with in those times, and it was partly because of Spain's involvement in it that we could in in 1640 regain our independence... 
But I have been already to Prague and stood near the place of the defenestration...
(PS: it must have been fashionable those days, we also defenestrated a spain's minister in Lisbon back in 1640 - the infamous Miguel de Vasconcelos - he was in fact Portuguese, but loyal to the spanish...)
But I have been already to Prague and stood near the place of the defenestration...
(PS: it must have been fashionable those days, we also defenestrated a spain's minister in Lisbon back in 1640
- the infamous Miguel de Vasconcelos - he was in fact Portuguese, but loyal to the spanish...)Philippe wrote:It will never happen, but what I would love to see would be a WIA add-on that covered the independance wars in Latin America.
If it devoted enough space to Simon Bolivar (and it would have to), I'm sure you could convince Hugo Chavez to order his military to buy hundreds of copies for the training academies. If the game included several scenarios on the liberation of each country, it could be a runaway best-seller in certain military circles.
Just make sure the sales are cash only (defense ministries are funny about paying their bills).
I would love to see that add on. The map would be fantastic, and the challenge of campaigning over that incredibly diverse terrain of South America would be immense. Bolivar, San Martin, the British Legion, Cochrane, O Higgins, The legion of hell, a fantastic range of troop types... It could be done in scenarios, as the campaign game would take a very long time.
For spaniard wargamers I suppose that should be of interest the decline of our Tercios in Rocroi, but the strategy of Rome and Carthage in Hispania during the 2nd Punic War seems a more appropriate discussion for the upcoming game
Don't forget the revolt in 133 BC with the siege of Numantia, there is other revolts here and there and a civil war 2 times if not more with Caesar and Pompée and even before.
There is plenty of actions in Spain at this time.
Don't forget the revolt in 133 BC with the siege of Numantia, there is other revolts here and there and a civil war 2 times if not more with Caesar and Pompée and even before.
There is plenty of actions in Spain at this time.
Making a game in ancient Spain from Hamilkar Barca till Augustus offers an incredible wealth of scenarios...I own a very nice Spanish game on the subject, called Iberos
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3634/iberos
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3634/iberos
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Franciscus
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PhilThib wrote:Making a game in ancient Spain from Hamilkar Barca till Augustus offers an incredible wealth of scenarios...I own a very nice Spanish game on the subject, called Iberos
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3634/iberos
Yes, very interesting...
Iberos? I hope tagwyn is not reading these last posts 
In the Iberian Peninsula alone can only think of the Peninsular War 1807-1814 and in the Spanish Civil War 1936-1939 for standalone games, other thing is the ancient Mediterranean.
Regarding the Thirty Years War I have being searching for some info and it looks really interesting, count on me for the P5000
Perhaps a subforum should be created?
In the Iberian Peninsula alone can only think of the Peninsular War 1807-1814 and in the Spanish Civil War 1936-1939 for standalone games, other thing is the ancient Mediterranean.
Regarding the Thirty Years War I have being searching for some info and it looks really interesting, count on me for the P5000
Perhaps a subforum should be created?
PhilThib wrote:Making a game in ancient Spain from Hamilkar Barca till Augustus offers an incredible wealth of scenarios...I own a very nice Spanish game on the subject, called Iberos
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3634/iberos
I have the same game, and I think the Ageod engine would be perfect for the period.
Come to think of it a game on the Reconquista would have even more possibilities in scenarios. El Cid, the original conquest, Santiago, The Almoravid and Almohad invasions, the birth of Portugal, crusaders, Alfonso the Battler, military orders, taifas, the Caliphate of Cordova, Jihads, an incredible wealth of different troop types and military systems - a very rich mix indeed.
Hobbes wrote:How big is the NCP map of Spain? It's so long since I looked at it I can't remember and I don't have the game on the PC at the moment.
Maybe something could be done with the existing map if it is big enough?
Cheers, Chris
You've raised a delicate issue. It's really not enough to have a map that gets the rivers and mountains right. Any two maps of the same region on the same scale but from different periods will probably need to use different layouts of regions, just by virtue of the different patterns of settlement and land clearing.
I used to wonder if you could use Stabo and a snapshot of what things looked like in Spain in the second century AD to portray conditions in the mid third century BC. The answer is that you can't, but you do have to pay attention to what things looked like in the first and second centuries BC to get the lay of the land in Hannibal's time. Some areas were sparsely inhabited supply deserts or uncleared light forest that became perfectly traverseable later on. And the patterns of how you would move and where you would want to move to changed. In an AGEOD-style game this translates out to different shapes and numbers of regions, among other things.
It gets even worse if you fast forward the time clock a thousand years or so. Spain in Hannibal's day bore a resemblance to Spain in Hadrian's day, but several hundred years of settlement and agriculture, followed by the decline that set in during the late Roman era and the Dark Ages, plus different patterns layered over on top of that following the Moorish conquest and Reconquista essentially means that a map from modern times just won't be right if ported to antiquity, even if you get the spelling of all those funny ancient names right.
Back to the Hannibal thing, I think it makes sense to pay close attention to what we know about the geography of the Sertorian and Numantine wars when thinking about Hannibal's Spain. The Numantine war especially took place in an era that was relatively close in time and where things hadn't changed much. You just don't hear those areas mentioned all that much in Livy and Polybius because they weren't all that active as participants in the launching of Hannibal's expedition. The other thing to play very close attention to is to places mentioned in the later episodes of the Spanish war while attention is focused on Italy. These places didn't just magically appear out of nowhere and had been influencing how things worked in Spain all along.
The reason that I'm interested in this is that I've always been curious as to how one would go about simulating the development and evolution of Carthaginian power in Spain in the generations leading up to the 2nd Punic War. Anyone else interested in Tartessos ?
It would be easy to change the names of regions and the terrain type - but then the graphic of the region would have to change as well to reflect the terrain.
As you say it would really have to be divided up in a different way + new graphics for each new region so I suppose you would really need a new map
Cheers, Chris
As you say it would really have to be divided up in a different way + new graphics for each new region so I suppose you would really need a new map
Cheers, Chris
Hobbes wrote:It would be easy to change the names of regions and the terrain type - but then the graphic of the region would have to change as well to reflect the terrain.
As you say it would really have to be divided up in a different way + new graphics for each new region so I suppose you would really need a new map
Cheers, Chris
You could do some terrain appearance changes using AddDynGraphic:
http://www.ageod.net/agewiki/AddDynGraphic
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Hobbes wrote:Maybe something could be done with the existing map...
Cheers, Chris
Are you interested in the Thirty Years War?
The map of RoP covers a great part of the operations. Depending of what the modder(s) want to do should be expanded to west (Rocroi) and south (Mantua), and perhaps a bit to the north and east. Perhaps somebody with more knowledge wants to correct me though
There are portraits available for the main commanders
A few Ospreys (Swedish, Imperial and coming one for the Spanish Tercios
)
and other sources for the Uniforms, for example
http://www.google.es/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=%22Uniforms+of+the+Thirty+Years+War%22&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.library.vexillia.ltd.uk%2Funiforms%2FUniforms30YW.pdf&ei=n04lT-zYPKaq0QXx4qXOCg&usg=AFQjCNELyHzxHKofaUwxqLW1Zy5MSX40cw&sig2=E1CDkZnqX2Geo2iQRGgFqg&cad=rja
I will not name again who should create these portraits and units or he will hate me
Regarding the orders of battle, may need some investigation, but the info is probably out there if you search for it, one starting point
http://www.google.es/search?tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=inauthor:%22William+P.+Guthrie%22
Reference boardgame, GMT Thirty Years War
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2748/thirty-years-war-europe-in-agony-1618-1648
Rules and cards
http://www.google.es/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=%22thirty+years+war%22+gmt+pdf&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CFEQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gmtgames.com%2Fliving_rules%2Ftywrules.pdf&ei=a1ElT7u0K4HA0QWv-sGmAg&usg=AFQjCNGWqCzjkgSiUgKqXZXXcF3KREYbTg&sig2=MHORfvRm4UnVDTCT6dK7jw&cad=rja
http://www.google.es/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=%22thirty+years+war%22+gmt+pdf&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CFkQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gmtgames.com%2Fliving_rules%2Fnon_eng%2Ftywcards_sp.pdf&ei=a1ElT7u0K4HA0QWv-sGmAg&usg=AFQjCNFrgcq9dZcIOyyo2tHz82SLRyUWCQ&sig2=P24Sjcrm0YUFD9N3c4XT2g&cad=rja
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Franciscus
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