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squarian
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Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:00 pm

Pocus wrote:There is in fact a kind of movement allowance for wagons. 5 regions can only realistically be reached if the weather is clear and the terrain not too bad. In bad weather and or mountains, you can expect that one push can't go much above 3 regions. I both cases, it can be down to 1-2 regions at most.


In regard to the thread I started about "How to feed a Russian?", I came back to this post while thinking about possible improvements to the E. Prussia supply situation.

It occurs to me that somewhere the movement distance between the Russia & Kurland OMB must be set as a parameter. What if weather & terrain (winter, uncivilized, etc) prevent supply from reaching the map in the three pushes? Does it stay in the OMB? In which case, a major problem for the Russians would be that supply can't be pushed far enough to reach the map, even with a Rus depot on the map edge (I usually build one at Wierzbelow, where the river forks).

If this is correct, rather than artificially increasing the amount of supply produced by Memel or Koenigsberg, perhaps the solution is the tinker with the supply movement allowance and other parameters, to ensure that even in winter supply will actually be pushed onto the map.

(In other words, the problem might be that OMBs haven't been very thoroughly thought out - it most situations, in most of the AGE games, they matter very little, but in this case the "fit" between OMBs and the regular game mechanics is having a dire effect on the game. Not just in supply terms, but also the PRU AI's persistent habit even under 1.03 b5 for sending Dohna to invade Russia, whence he of course never returns)

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Generalisimo
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Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:01 pm

squarian wrote:(In other words, the problem might be that OMBs haven't been very thoroughly thought out - it most situations, in most of the AGE games, they matter very little, but in this case the "fit" between OMBs and the regular game mechanics is having a dire effect on the game. Not just in supply terms, but also the PRU AI's persistent habit even under 1.03 b5 for sending Dohna to invade Russia, whence he of course never returns)

There has been many tests on the beta to solve that problem and we have found that some AI parameters prevent that AI behaviour (no AI interest on OMB regions ;) ).
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squarian
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Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:30 pm

Generalisimo wrote:There has been many tests on the beta to solve that problem and we have found that some AI parameters prevent that AI behaviour (no AI interest on OMB regions ;) ).


I'm playing under 1.03 beta 5 and a largish corps under Dohna began the game by invading Russia. I mentioned this point because, if the improvements you are referring to are included in this patch, they don't seem to be foolproof. But maybe you are referring to refinements not yet included in a patch - coming attractions, so to speak? The implications for game balance are heavy: not only is Dohna's force doomed, but the very substantial fixed force in Russia is freed for action.

Just out of curiosity, why not simply make Russia & Kurland (and maybe other OMBs) neutral out-of-bounds for the Prussian side, with similar measures if the Austrian AI is committing similar stupidities (though I'm not aware of any in the Aus case). After all, even if he hadn't had too many pressing problems as it was, I've never seen even the hint of a suggestion that Fritz contemplated an invasion of Russia. But maybe it's not technically feasible to have an OMB neutral for just one side?

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Charles
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to build or not to build, that is the question...

Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:26 pm

Hi guys, I have a related question, namely is there an advantage in building a depot in a region which already has a friendly city with an integral depot?

The tutorial suggets that you build a depot at Torgau. I then started a campaign game and built depots at Torgau and Dresden in preparation for the spring 1757 campaign, but I have not noticed any effect. The manual is silent on this question.

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squarian
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Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:30 pm

Originally Posted by Pocus
About cavalry, the simple fact of switching it to evade combat won't do anything particular on supply travel... Supply is blocked if there is not a minimal military control (25% iirc), on the other hand & implicitly, if you have units (converting to your MC the region) then the supply will be prevented from moving through.


JacquesDeLalaing wrote:Then it would be better to delete the sentence on page 44:

[SIZE="1"]"(Enemy light cavalry units acting as Raiders automatically block all supply from transiting a region in which they are located.)"[/size] ;)


Sorry - still not clear on this point. I understand that in order to transit a region, the region MC must be 25% or higher.

True or false: the presence of an enemy unit in an area where friendly MC is greater than 25% prevents supply transit.

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BigDuke66
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Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:53 am

I would like to know if river regions are also counted for the 5 region limit.
For example could supply in Berlin reach Torgau in one push?
When I only can't the land regions it would fit but when I also count the river region the supply has to cross it wouldn't.

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Konrad von Richtmark
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Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:46 am

I too would like to know what's the cause of my current supply problems, for they're pretty much ruined my game.

Image

Why isn't Friedrich II getting any of that hoard of supplies sitting in Prague? There's a depot in between, so it's only two hops of length two each, with roads all the way. Granted, it's snowy and harsh weather, but two-step hops along a road, come on!

A few turns before this when his supply wagons got empty, I sent them to the depot in between, but they aren't filling up either.

He and all the corps with him were a good strength of 2500, in a few turns camping in Pilsen has wasted them down to 400!

Is this WAD? And, how can I cheat myself a new army to compensate? I maintain that I was screwed over by not having been informed properly of how the game works. Had I known I would be stranded supply-less for several turns I would have headed back to Prague and dared the harsh weather. Whose idea was it to make the game automatically overwrite your savegame when you exit? It is for reasons of these that players should be allowed to decide for themselves whether they want to use save/load function to go back and redo things.

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Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:30 am

lvl1 depot is not enough to supply what I assume was the whole 70k elbe army. It can only transfer 102 supplies per turn and your usage was more like 300-400.

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Ebbingford
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Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:19 am

You can go back however many turns you want. Go to load the game and it says if you want to reload the previous turn hit "home". You can do this to get back to the turn that you want.
If you sent all the supply wagons away then Fred's army will not be requesting any supply. Leave them with him. Supply wagons "attract" supply, troops on their own don't.
Weather also reduces the number of regions that supply can travel easily, where as in summer it can be about 5 regions, winter will see it only manage about 3.

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Konrad von Richtmark
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Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:47 pm

I think my total manpower there was more something like 20k (or 30 at most), I've suffered casualties previously and a part of it was in Königgrätz.

At the time of posting I didn't know that armies without wagons couldn't receive supplies from anything but an adjacent source. However, isn't the town of Pilsen a valid endpoint for supplies? And why didn't my wagons in the depot fill up?

Is it actually possible for supplies to only be able to travel one area per "hop"? In case of extremely bad conditions, like very harsh weather and snow?

Also, in case it matters, all areas from Prague to Pilsen via the depot were looted. I just took the screenshot from the supply mapmode.

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Konrad von Richtmark
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Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:03 am

I now went back a couple of turns. I reattached the supply wagons and made off towards Prague with the bulk of my force. One corps was left back in Pilsen, and it did manage to get supplied for a good while. So apparently the problem was simply low throughput, and not knowing that supply wagons had to be with the troops.

Thanks for the help :)

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Flop
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Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:14 am

Johnnie wrote:I think it would really be helpful if the Supply section of the manual were re-written. It is only a few pages and in its present form is unclear and/or incorrect on several issues.

Just a thought.


I second that motion. I've been playing RoP for a couple of days now, and have been playing with the assumption that supply can only travel a maximum of 3 regions. Having noted that doesn't always appear to be the case, I searched the forums, and finally found this thread.

I guess an updated manual is not going to happen, but this information should at least be stickied, in my opinion.

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Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:19 am

Supply can not flow when mountain passes blocked by snow. Especially the case in Silesia. It is possible for whole army to starve with 1-2 regions near supply source. AFAIK with clear terrain and good weather it can travel 4-5 regions max. But generally in rough terrain it will move only 3 regions. (Especially in east Prussia)

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Flop
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Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:05 am

Baris wrote:Supply can not flow when mountain passes blocked by snow. Especially the case in Silesia. It is possible for whole army to starve with 1-2 regions near supply source. AFAIK with clear terrain and good weather it can travel 4-5 regions max. But generally in rough terrain it will move only 3 regions. (Especially in east Prussia)


Yes, I know that. The point is I had to spend quite a bit of time to find this thread, and that was only after I suspected the manual was wrong. Most players probably never visit this forum, but a stickied thread would at least make this information easier to find for those that do.

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Durk
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Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:41 am

Flop wrote:Yes, I know that. The point is I had to spend quite a bit of time to find this thread, and that was only after I suspected the manual was wrong. Most players probably never visit this forum, but a stickied thread would at least make this information easier to find for those that do.


I do understand your point. Most players, in my experience, play with only a quick glance at the manual.
When they get serious about play, they find the forums.
These games are in a state of evolution, which is nice, fixes correct earlier issues. The forum is the manual for more updated issues.
While I know a perfect manual would be nice, an improved game is even nicer.

Baris
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Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:00 am

Flop wrote:Yes, I know that. The point is I had to spend quite a bit of time to find this thread, and that was only after I suspected the manual was wrong. Most players probably never visit this forum, but a stickied thread would at least make this information easier to find for those that do.


Other then some bunch of players I think most players/moderators never visit other sub forums or replay other then AACW thread so it is much better to ask there if not stickied. ;) Most probably buried in some threads. Supply distribution should be generic to all ageod games but what I wondered most were the good division buildup to specific games such as Rus and Rop regarding different unit models (Latter was ok) I think it will be better to combine all the sub forums other than PON sub to save time and space .

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Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:31 pm

Always always check the Wiki, as we try to consolidate info there.
http://www.ageod.net/agewiki/Supply


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Flop
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Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:27 am

Baris wrote:Other then some bunch of players I think most players/moderators never visit other sub forums or replay other then AACW thread so it is much better to ask there if not stickied. ;) Most probably buried in some threads. Supply distribution should be generic to all ageod games but what I wondered most were the good division buildup to specific games such as Rus and Rop regarding different unit models (Latter was ok) I think it will be better to combine all the sub forums other than PON sub to save time and space .


I don't think it's reasonable to expect people who are playing RoP to go to the AACW subforum to find out essential information such as supply range. Nor is it reasonable to expect people to know that these rules are identical in all AGE games (especially when the manual specifically states otherwise).

I can see your point, though, but the sad thing is that people who just want to play the game, and who don't know about the Ageod forums are being left behind. I think one of the reasons why these games have a relatively small audience, is that people who play them are expected to have played all previous AGE games (at least AACW, anyway), and they're expected to go to a forum they may not have heard about, and do a manual search of all threads on that forum, in order to find the corrections to an erroneous manual.

Thanks for link, Lodilefty. I didn't know there was an AGE wiki, since all I've ever found in my searches is the AACW wiki (which, admittedly, is part of the same wiki, so shame on me). It might be a bit better advertised, though, such as in the stickied "essential files" thread in this subforum.

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