When is this game actually going to be finished?

[tevans6220]

The first lesson is that 'Perfection does not belong to this world!'

The second I know since the last 12 years in the game industry is that there will be always complaints on the first release of the game, some of them right (because games are by essence almost never finished upon release)...and for various reasons (including many outside of the dev's will/capacity), this is NOT going to change, ever....

No company can afford pourring millions of $ (and thousands of hours) in game's QA and finishing...to reach an impossible perfection... Anyone can complain or scream, that's fact and that has not changed till game industry existed...and won't change for the years to come...

So what to do from that?

A lot of customers delay purchase from initial release, which can be the safe bet... they are in their good right ... there are however known risks that it sometimes kills a game and the company doing it when the ugly face of business shows up and says to the dev: no sale = no life....finito la musica

The second positive attitude is to trust the dev to fix their product as fast as they can and send positive remarks and justified critics...this is constructive spurr that I like, because I know about my limits and weaknesses...as long as the mood is for improvement, I like the attitude...

I really personally dislike those who take errors and weaknesses as an opportunity for bashing...especially when the bashing is totally irrelevant compared to reality (that usually the bashers have not the slightest idea of :blink ... a few times here and there I had an urge for "go to .... " and leave the whole thing down.... but hopefully my tolerant and optimistic nature comes back quickly

Anyway, we are working our best to improve the game, and it will get better with each patch....

One next is currently almost finished and you should get it in beta format soon...

Thanks to all our supporters and gaming friends

No offense PhilThib but I don't see my post as bashing in any way. I think it's a very legitimate question. I had a huge interest in PoN and the developer diaries made it even more so. I tried the demo. Seemed okay to me. I understand there's no such thing a 100% bug free software but I don't understand how you can honestly say PoN was ready for release on June 7. This game is a work in progress and unfortunately it shows. As much as I want to like the game it frustrates me. Not because of misunderstandings or minor bugs. It's due to the unknown factor. How far can I actually get into a game before I come across something else that requires a hotfix or patch? How far can I get into a GC before having to start over before starting over due to a bug? Has anyone on the dev team actually played a GC all the way to see what problems arise?

True enough I could have waited to purchase but as a developer is that what you want me to do? I don't see my posts as bashing at all. I'm frustrated. I want to like this game but the poor documentation, long turn processing and the bugs all make it a frustrating experience for me. I just want to know when I can start having fun with the game. I buy games for entertainment. Not to be frustrated. Right now this game is frustrating the hell out of me. It's a work in progress and I've paid to be a tester. Call that bashing if you will but my question is a very honest, legitimate question.

[vaalen]

While I absolutely back Ageod (in general as well as for this game), CtD are a reality in PoN. But, Pocus seems to have tracked at least one of the most common ones (building scrolling) down and says it's fixed for the next patch. Other than that one, I've had the memory leak crash rather regularly, but don't consider it a serious issue as indeed all I have to do is restart PoN, load my save and continue from there (saving a lot during a turn means losing little data)...

Like you I haven't had any save game coruption yet, even if such were to occur, the age engine's autosave with backup feature is a great help there. Got a corrupted game? Go back one turn and it should be fine...

Of course PoN has other, sometimes annoying, issues. But I have faith these problems will be resolved in time. We just will have to give the two Phils and the entire team the necessary time...

By the way, once the 1.01g patch is out I vote for the entire team to take a few days off, get some rest :-D . And by no means watch the forums during that break (though have some moderators ready to step in if flame wars are to start (after all, we had this before :-( ))...

I have never had a crash since I switched the resolution to 1024x768. This does not mean that I have no sympathy for those who have had crashes, on the contrary, I HATE crashes. This is just to say that not everybody is having them. And I have an old, fairly mediocre computer.

I am confident that the Phils will fix the crash problems, in time.

[tevans6220]

Is the OP the same Tevans that posted on the Paradox forums ?

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?541741-How-Do-I-Get-A-Refund

I bought the game despite the all the bugs,turn time and graphic issues I read about on the Paradox forums. Even though this is the 1st game I bought developed by Ageod, I knew that most of the bugs will eventually get fixed and the game will be in good working order in reasonable amount of time.

I was even surprised when I got the game. All those turn time and graphic issues were not an issue on my system.

I dont ever expect this game to be perfect but I know from the Dev's responses that it will continue to get better. I just hope I can learn all this stuff before they start adding in more stuffs.

I have already gotten my $20 worth of enjoyment out of the game and I have yet to try all the countries available to play. In fact Ive only played one (USA). I keep restarting a new game after each patch or after I learned how to do something that I should have been doing (Been fun learning this game, still need to figure out a few things) Each time though, its been different objectives, slightly different economics, some different wars etc....So the replayability of this game is pretty high and Ill be enjoying this $20 investment for awhile.

The one and the same. Yes it's true I wanted a refund. And even though Paradox refused, my bank sent me a letter recieved yesterday that stated that a refund would be forthcoming if I wanted to pursue it. I changed my mind about the refund but I'm glad you brought it up. I purchased PoN because I wanted it. That doesn't mean that I wanted to be a paying tester or wait weeks, months or years before the game was what I consider playable. I've even urged others to hang in there and not give up on the game. That doesn't mean that I'm not frustrated with it though. And none of it has anything to do with asking when the game is actually going to be finished. It's a legitimate question. What's the gameplan or timeline for getting this game up to where it should have been at release. Thats's all I want to know.

[Gray_Lensman]

<snip>

One other thing I'll mention. I think it's inappropriate for those others affiliated with Ageod (moderators, coordinators etc.) to be degrading customers for having an opinion they don't agree with.

LOL, you are SO predictable. You've been dying to make some sort of statement like this, haven't you? You've always gotta attempt to find a way to start some sort of flame war and drive a wedge between us and AGEOD don't you? Somehow, unsurprisingly, I knew that eventually a remark of this sort would be forthcoming from you whether or not anything had actually been stated in any way other than a non-factual manner.

edit> You and several others have succeeded in other not so obvious ways however. I will continue to strive to voluntarily help "official" AGEod behind the scenes contributing here and there to installers for instance and timely database bug fixes when and where I might find the opportunity and need exists, BUT, I've recently reduced my post count from well over 6700 posts to somewhere around 3500 posts. Most of the posts permanently removed were informative posts that I no longer wished to be available to the entire forum since several unappreciative trolling individuals like yourself would also have access to that same information.

My sincere apologies to the rest of the innocent forumites for whom I'll still try to give direct specific individual answers to their queries if stated in constructive ways... BUT after 4 years of constant badgering by trolls and little action by "official" AGEod to publicly support their volunteers even after new forum rules were supposedly instituted, I was left with no other choice to get the point across.

[tux]

I think, this is allways a problem of small game producers. I like and support small PC and boardgame publishers, because they do a great job to give us player some kind of art, you will never get in a normal game store. I think we all should be happy that there are some guys who spent all their time in inventing interesting war games. Of course when published, you cannot expect of all being perfect. But I too think, it is we all who are responsible how quickly all possible bugs or errata are found out and fixed. And after all, a not to buggy or erranous game can still be fun.
I too think, the turn computation lasts very long, but keep it cool: Now you get a feeling how long the 19th century was

[Czert]

I think it is fair to ask how long it will be until the game is stable and somewhat balanced. I bet a lot of players plan to start a new game when the next patch comes out. I am not even interested in playing anymore until the economy is fixed to reduce the money available. I am glad it has been released because many people are happy to play and provide feedback which helps improve the game faster. My totally baseless guess is that it will be a couple months before most of the major kinks are ironed out. I believe AGEOD is doing the best it can, but a game of this size means many unforeseen problems.

I f you want bug free game as posible, buy it after ONE YEAR after relasing, dosnt matter from which company. But which realy matter (and show value of company) that it is TIME at which the creating new patches to thier games after relase.
Yiou can see patch developed for AACW, which is game old for 4 years, yes, at slow pace, but still developed.
Some companys start making patches after game sales stop generating them enough profit.

[vaalen]

LOL, you are SO predictable. You've been dying to make some sort of statement like this, haven't you? You've always gotta attempt to find a way to start some sort of flame war and drive a wedge between us and AGEOD don't you? Somehow, unsurprisingly, I knew that eventually a remark of this sort would be forthcoming from you whether or not anything had actually been stated in any way other than a non-factual manner.

edit> You and several others have succeeded in other not so obvious ways however. I will continue to strive to voluntarily help "official" AGEod behind the scenes contributing here and there to installers for instance and timely database bug fixes when and where I might find the opportunity and need exists, BUT, I've recently reduced my post count from well over 6700 posts to somewhere around 3500 posts. Most of the posts permanently removed were informative posts that I no longer wished to be available to the entire forum since several unappreciative trolling individuals like yourself would also have access to that same information.

My sincere apologies to the rest of the innocent forumites for whom I'll still try to give direct specific individual answers to their queries if stated in constructive ways... BUT after 4 years of constant badgering by trolls and little action by "official" AGEod to publicly support their volunteers even after new forum rules were supposedly instituted, I was left with no other choice to get the point across.

Ah,Gray, that is so sad. Your posts have helped me understand and enjoy the games so much over the years.

[tevans6220]

LOL, you are SO predictable. You've been dying to make some sort of statement like this, haven't you? You've always gotta attempt to find a way to start some sort of flame war and drive a wedge between us and AGEOD don't you? Somehow, unsurprisingly, I knew that eventually a remark of this sort would be forthcoming from you whether or not anything had actually been stated in any way other than a non-factual manner.

edit> You and several others have succeeded in other not so obvious ways however. I will continue to strive to voluntarily help "official" AGEod behind the scenes contributing here and there to installers for instance and timely database bug fixes when and where I might find the opportunity and need exists, BUT, I've recently reduced my post count from well over 6700 posts to somewhere around 3500 posts. Most of the posts permanently removed were informative posts that I no longer wished to be available to the entire forum since several unappreciative trolling individuals like yourself would also have access to that same information.

My sincere apologies to the rest of the innocent forumites for whom I'll still try to give direct specific individual answers to their queries if stated in constructive ways... BUT after 4 years of constant badgering by trolls and little action by "official" AGEod to publicly support their volunteers even after new forum rules were supposedly instituted, I was left with no other choice to get the point across.

Unpredictable? Hey Gray look at my post count. I don't make it a habit of even posting unless there's a problem. Having a run-in with you last December has absolutely nothing to do with this and you know it. As a matter of fact our little episode was entirely forgotten until you reminded me of it. I don't carry grudges. You want everyone to believe I've carried a grudge against you for almost 7 months and just waited for a chance to get back at you. As a matter of fact I haven't even had contact with you since then. Like I said, I don't carry grudges but apparently you do.

I said I think it's inappropriate for those affiliated with Ageod to be degrading customers just because they may disagree with them. And it is. Your post right here proves it. You let some petty disagreement from way back in December cause you to start attacking me. Not sure exactly what forum rule that you violated but I'm sure you can cite it to me because that's what you did in December. I don't hold grudges Gray and I don't act like a spoiled brat by taking my ball and going home. Or in this case removing messages out of spite because of some perceived slight to you. You did and still do nice work on making AACW a good game. I applaud you for it. But that's as far as it should go.

[MarkShot]

[color="Red"]I think I am an official AGEOD presence (or a ghost from the pre-Paradox past). Either way, I do want to say that AGEOD greatly appreciates the contributions of all past and present volunteers; especially, you, Mike.

Unfortunately, sometimes it may not be obvious given scheduling pressures and priorities. Also, as I have learned over the years is there are cultural differences. The French are a lot less confrontational than we Americans. (both I and Mike are Americans)

I haven't reviewed this entire thread. I could say more, but I am pecking with one finger on an iPad.

Now locked, until French Diplomacy Department has a chance to review.[/color]