Baris
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Wed May 11, 2011 11:00 am

Hohenlohe wrote:I still hope to play additionally some minor nations like The Ottomans, Egypt, Ethiopia, Paraguay or even China or perhaps the Zulus or the Boers...


Rebellious Ottoman's governor(of Egypt) Mehmet Ali Pasha actually managed to come closer to Bursa and succesfull about advancing(Agean coast,interior lines of Ottoman) resulting a dissolve in Ottoman's dynasty in Egypt. Some commanders were hanged for their incapibilities :confused: :bonk: . Though date is somehow 1830-45.


Hohenlohe wrote:I have some special interests in the Ottomans and Paraguay because I want to do an alternative approach to history.


As the Ottoman Sultan-Kaliph it would be interesting to try a decent modernization of the Ottoman Empire to survive in a better way than it happened historically.

Sofar I understand it would be possible to modify some data in an easy way thus I assume it would be possible to start as Paraguay or the Ottomans.

But I would be glad to know if there will be any related event files belonging to this nations or whether it would be necessary to create some from scratch.



Ottoman Sultan was also a "Caliph" but it was just a title. There were no practical use of title in social or political terms I have read.
Ottomans have a "Tulip period" for modernising though. But it is no way near to industrialization maybe some modernization of the army. Disbanding janissaries, building more loyal regiments to Sultan :)

Though in order to play Ottomans some events should be specially written for Ottomans. As she had no oversea colonies but so much rebellion.It would be very much interesting to play. But it would be hard to do with just modding or by unlocking playable nations. Thanks for bringing it up.

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DooberGuy
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Wed May 11, 2011 10:40 pm

Ottoman Empire was a major nation through WW1, so I would be pretty surprised if you can't play it at all. It may just be that you can't upgrade your tech as quickly as if you were a European nation. Think Europa Universialis.

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NefariousKoel
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Thu May 12, 2011 7:42 pm

If the Ottomans aren't one of the playable powers in the original release, hopefully some modders can get it up and running with events and such. :)

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Pocus
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Sun May 15, 2011 10:04 am

you can run it easily, but there are less events done for them right now, that's all...
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Hohenlohe
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Mon May 16, 2011 6:47 am

Pocus wrote:you can run it easily, but there are less events done for them right now, that's all...


Dear Pocus, I cannot resist to suggest you that we as your dedicated fans could possibly research for some additional events for the Ottomans, The Egyptians, the Chinese and in my special case for the Paraguayans and the Boers and Zulu to improve PON in some terms.

Think simply, if we improve the events for the Ottoman, many Pdox fans from the Middle East would be pleased, even some fans from East Asia would be pleased if we give some historical events like the Opium Crisis and Taiping Civil War a better chance not only enhancing gameplay but also your fanbase.
The same would become true if we implement some historical events around the historical Triple Alliance War in South America.

Just ask Generallissimo what he may know about this conflict, if you have not enough solid informations...

I simply try to see how the TW Series was such a success not only in Europe or North America but also in the Middle East. As one of the most interesting modifications for MTW II the Broken Crescent one was mostly developed by good fans from the Middle East region, so if we give PON a something better shape due to some events we could broaden the fanbase not only for PON but also for most of the other AGEOD games just and in future as I hope...

Simply ma six pence sofar...

greetings and thanks to you all dear AGEOD DEV team...

Hohenlohe aka Mike...
R.I.P. Henry D.

In Remembrance of my Granduncle Hans Weber, a Hungaro-German Soldier,served in Austro-Hungarian Forces during WWI,war prisoner, missed in Sibiria 1918...

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DooberGuy
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Mon May 16, 2011 7:21 am

If you don't mind me asking Hohenlohe, what's with the interest in the Paraguayans? I'm pretty familiar with world history, and I understand the Zulu and such, but I can't remember ANYTHING that Paraguay has ever done.

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John Sedgwick
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Mon May 16, 2011 8:02 am

I have only a passing familiarity with Paraguayan history, but can only assume that Hohenlohe's interest has to do with the War of the Triple Alliance. Paraguay had a (relatively) massive and modern army compared to its neighbours, and tried to carve out a "Greater Paraguay," but in the end was utterly destroyed - they lost at least half their prewar population (some figures put it as high as 70-90%); the vast (and I mean vast) majority of adult males died or fled the country between 1864 and 1870. In some areas there were roughly 20 women to every 1 man left alive. It was a complete and total demographic catastrophe. That may explain why you haven't heard of Paraguay doing anything lately :blink:
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Hohenlohe
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Tue May 17, 2011 6:07 am

John Sedgwick wrote:I have only a passing familiarity with Paraguayan history, but can only assume that Hohenlohe's interest has to do with the War of the Triple Alliance. Paraguay had a (relatively) massive and modern army compared to its neighbours, and tried to carve out a "Greater Paraguay," but in the end was utterly destroyed - they lost at least half their prewar population (some figures put it as high as 70-90%); the vast (and I mean vast) majority of adult males died or fled the country between 1864 and 1870. In some areas there were roughly 20 women to every 1 man left alive. It was a complete and total demographic catastrophe. That may explain why you haven't heard of Paraguay doing anything lately :blink:


Thanks, dear Sedgewick, for your kindly support in terms of my idea to implement either directly or with a mod Paraguay into PON.

It is not unusual that no one in Europe or North America have ever heard about Paraguay. Even my older cousin a former Major in the BUndeswehr who served a long time as a staff officer in different staffs has never heard about this conflict was therefore amused as he heard that I know more about that.

First you should know that the past Paraguayan state around 1850 until 1870 had his grass roots in the long forgotten Jesuit reducciones in which the old Guarani warrior society lived under the supervision and the spiritual leadership of the Jesuits. These settlements had in those days to fight slave hunters from Brazil and Argentine and they did well in most cases until the old Jesuit order was forbidden and dissolved around 1773 - only in Prussia and Russia the Jesuits got a refugium.

Around 1850 the Paraguayan dictator initiated some modern reforms. He introduced an new elementary school system with around 400 schools in Paraguay and parallel he tried to build up the first modern manufactories like Sawmills and the first foundry in South America. He even introduced and built the very first railways in South America and he built a decent merchant fleet.

Paraguay was once in that time the only country which was relatively autarch in economics because the dictator did not accepted any investments or loans by foreigners like the usual British entrepreneur or banker.

At the same time Paraguay was often called the Prussia of South America because it had the most modern standing army at that time until around 1865.

Sadly Paraguay intermingled in a totally wrong way in some Uruguayan civil war quarrels and tried a wrong approach to that country via Argentine soil but Argentine resisted to allow Paraguay any military access.
And so Paraguay not only declared war to Brazil but also to Argentine and thus it has no longer access to the Atlantic anymore via the Parana.

Somehow interesting was the financial support of this war on the side of Brazil and Argentine by the British and later on even by the USA which comes very handy with more modern weapons and ships and money.

Paraguay fought in those days the first modern war with trench systems and heavy manouvring and even the first guerilla warfare at the Paraguayan side in the last war years.

Thus in the end Paraguay existed no longer like before and most of their male adults were dead in either way. During the Brazil occupation after war the Guarani widows mingled with Brazil soldiers thus the very most of the indigene population is no longer of pure Guarani origin.
But BRazil had suffered in some way too. Most of the Brazil soldiers were freed slaves due to the resistance in the Brazil population to this war.
And around ten years after the Brazil imperial monarchy was abolished by a military coup and Brazil need until the late 1930ies to repay the war loans and credits to the British...

That s in short some info about a forgotten conflict. If Paraguay would had survived in the old way it would have been the first modern industrial nation in Latin America by their own but this bloody war ended this way...

greetings

Hohenlohe, who likes to recreate history in some way...

edit: it was the first true TOTAL WAR ever waged...
R.I.P. Henry D.



In Remembrance of my Granduncle Hans Weber, a Hungaro-German Soldier,served in Austro-Hungarian Forces during WWI,war prisoner, missed in Sibiria 1918...

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John Sedgwick
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Tue May 17, 2011 7:09 am

Thank you for your summary Hohenlohe. Paraguay has a fascinating history indeed, it's a shame so few have heard of this incredible conflict. The mind boggles to comprehend such staggering loss - given how close they came to complete disintegration, the fact that anyone is aware of Paraguay at all is a testament to their tenacity! I can't think of anything comparable in terms of national devastation - the closest I can come up with is Poland in WW2 (lost between a quarter to a third of prewar population), and the bombing of North Korea in 1950-53 (lost between 20 to 30% of prewar population).
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DooberGuy
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Tue May 17, 2011 7:12 am

Serbia in WW1... but I suppose there was some justice in that since they started the war.

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John Sedgwick
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Tue May 17, 2011 7:19 am

Ah yes, thank you DooberGuy, I forgot Serbia in WW1. I recently watched a dark comedy from Serbia where two women accidentally kill their village's only remaining man (a decrepit geezer who's permanently bed-ridden for multiple reasons ;) ), and are forced on pain of death to go on an epic quest to find another one. It was pretty amusing - can't remember what it was called.
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Le Ricain
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Fri May 20, 2011 12:51 am

Don't forget Scotland, who after Serbia (37.1% of total mobilised) and Turkey (26.8% of total mobilised), suffered the highest death rate of the war (26.4% of total mobilised).
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

'Nous voilà, Lafayette'

Colonel C.E. Stanton, aide to A.E.F. commander John 'Black Jack' Pershing, upon the landing of the first US troops in France 1917

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DooberGuy
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Fri May 20, 2011 12:53 am

The Boers lost a significant portion of their population in the British concentration camps, etc.

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