Supply doubts and rail

[montgommel]

Hello,

In my test game with the CP, I have overrun all Belgium, but I forgot to convert rails in my advace. This should be fatal, but up to now(Nov/Dec) I have had no problems with supply (and I have an army deep inside in France: near Paris). Do the supply need converted railroads or can use non-converted ones?

[calvinus]

The rails are automatically converted at the end of each Interphase (so Nov-Dec 1914, yes!).

[montgommel]

OK. But I wonder how can my armies in Belgium/France have been in supply all the year 1914 if I have not converted the railroads. Can I use non-converted railroads for supply purposes?

[calvinus]

Your armies have been supplied thanks to supply relays, such as rivers and HQs (one supplied HQ can be a supply relay for another one HQ).

[montgommel]

I attach this screenshot of my game with centrals as I think the supply is not properly calculated.
The map colour is in Supply Mode (although it is not clear to me the colour coding, perhaps can help you).
I have written a big white "S" in the hexes I think are supply points (basically german cities, as Belgian ones doesn't count) and a big white "R" in the Relays (basically converted railroads. There is no major rivers in the area) [I have several doubts about if conquered ports can or cannot be used as Sources or Relays]. Also I have marked with big red "X" wherever the railroad are not converted (so in this points supply by rail is cut).

In this situation, all armies in Germany or adjacent are supplied (IV, V, VI & VII) and also III army in Sedan as it is in/or two hexes from a relay.
II army units are supplied as they are 2 hexes away of the III army HQ that act as a relay to them, but 2nd army HQ is 3 hexes away from relay (it has to bypass 1st army french corp blocking the shortest path because suply cannot be traced through enemy ocuppied hexes) so it must be out of supply.
The same can be stated for the 1st army: some of their units (those in central belgium) can be supplied usig conquered ports as relays (if this is possible), but 1st army HQ is out of supply reach of every other relay.

I guess that the game is using incorrectly conquered cities/towns as suply sources because in this case, all the armies and units are clearly supplied.

Also, I have had some issues with the railroad conversion. Sometimes, units using rail conversion move mode enter in the hex but don't convert the rail (like the belgian hex adjacent to aachen where I have entered twice with two different units and nothing) while others seems to convert themselves after a battle or sometimes leaving a unit there without moving an entire turn.

[calvinus]

The screenshot is missing.

Also, are you considering the rule which says that 2 friendly controlled minor towns or 1 friendly controlled major city is considered as a supply source?

[montgommel]

Screenshot added:

Just One friendly City or town is supply source. Probably the misunderstanding is what friendly (as opposed to conquered) means: For me friendly means a city in own country and conquered a city/town in an enemy country but you have moved through it.

Rule 12-A, 1st bullet, 2nd item:
"A friendly city or town linked by rail, major river or sea to another friendly city. Conquered enemy cities or towns do not count as a supply source or as a relay."

In the case of ports, 2 minor = 1 major.

[calvinus]

For game performance reasons that part of the rule is not applied:

Conquered enemy cities or towns do not count as a supply source or as a relay."

So if you want to cut enemy supply lines, you have to pocket enemy forces littler and littler.

[calvinus]

Here the supply rules from the PC game manual:

9.1 Definitions of a Supply Source
When referring to a relay, an R is used. For a country, supply sources and
their relays are:
● The capital of a Major, friendly power.
● A friendly city or town linked by rail, major river or sea to another friendly city.
● Friendly railways connected to a friendly source. (R)
● A major port linked to friendly ports through open seas. Minor ports supply 1 army only (see below)
● Major rivers linking friendly cities or ports, unless one of the shores is under enemy control. (R)
● A country’s HQ (and certain friendly HQs if they may cooperate) if they find themselves in a 2-region range from a valid supply source or relay. However, this HQ may only act as a relay for 1 HQ (no further HQs may be added to this link). (R)
● The same for GHQ. (R)
● A fortress is always in supply along with its garrison corps. It may supply one corps outside of its own garrison (and only in its own region).
● A city (not a town) is a supply source for 1 corps in its region only, even if it is isolated.

9.1.1 Definitions
● An isolated city is a city that cannot establish communication with another of its allies’ cities through a “road” of regions which is blocked, either by enemy units, by enemy ZOC, or by forbidden regions. Supply may pass through a friendly strait.
● A minor port linked to friendly ports through open seas may only supply one Army, and this one cannot be the Main Army of the front. (If it was, it ceases to be.) To supply more, it is necessary that the Armies in question be within reach of 2 minor ports at the same time.

Example: In Northern France, the British Armies are supplied either by the 2 minor ports of Calais and Dunkerque, or by the railroad leading to Paris. If one port is taken and the railroad cut off (ex. Arras), there is no more normal supply. Only one British Army may be supplied by the remaining minor port.

[montgommel]

For game performance reasons that part of the rule is not applied:



So if you want to cut enemy supply lines, you have to pocket enemy forces littler and littler.

This changes the game a bit. Now, attacking and enveloping strategy is easier as you don't need to worry too much about supply: you must aim to conquer two nearby city/towns in enemy territory so you are in suply and try to repeat this.

I guess than in the 1915+ with trench warfare and more static fronts this is not a big issue, but Schlieffen will be glad with your new rules (historically, one of the greatest flaws of the plan was that Belgium was a bottleneck for troops movement and also for supply)

[calvinus]

This changes the game a bit. Now, attacking and enveloping strategy is easier as you don't need to worry too much about supply: you must aim to conquer two nearby city/towns in enemy territory so you are in suply and try to repeat this.

I guess than in the 1915+ with trench warfare and more static fronts this is not a big issue, but Schlieffen will be glad with your new rules (historically, one of the greatest flaws of the plan was that Belgium was a bottleneck for troops movement and also for supply)

You're are right, but I was really forced to introduce this simplification, because the timings of supply check calculations were really unacceptable for a PC game... oke:

[montgommel]

The Travelling Salesman Problem isn't it?. An old friend of mine. Although, if you can solve the problem with all the cities/town (friendly and conquered) the real problem should be easier as you are just eliminating supply and relays so the graph is smaller.

Just guessing (computer engineerings always trying to solve the world). It is Ok.

[calvinus]

Yes! Even though I reach a friendly controlled home city, I have to check if it's supplied, so I must recurse to another home city and so on... This recursive procedure for each stack. The more stacks, the more work for the CPU...