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caranorn
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Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:16 am

Jarkko wrote:(also notice how many times it has been pointed out in various threads by various posters how the forts are deathtraps (when during this era they were the strongpoints); in fact it has been suggested one should avoid garrisoning forts, thus absolutely and totally destroying the feel of warfare in the era.


Note, I suggested not putting field forces into the fortifications. 1) because outside fortifications they have better chances of survival (even a hopelessly outnumbered and out commanded army rarely gets destroyed in open battle) and 2) because field forces are more useful when they remain mobile and can either relieve the besieged place, cut enemy communications or otherwise draw the enemy from the siege. Putting additional garrison units, infantry, militia, artillery and supply inside fortifications is an entirely different issue...

And yes, I believe there are some problems with the randomisation of siege resolution. Sometimes places seem to fall without reason, sometimes they hold out far too long. But we've been told this will be looked at and I'm sure it would have been looked at even without name calling...
Marc aka Caran...

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Jarkko
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Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:12 am

caranorn wrote:But we've been told this will be looked at and I'm sure it would have been looked at even without name calling...

Just out of curiosity, where did you see this name-calling? I find it "interesting" how tantrums about breaking the rules and name-calling are thrown around, especially in conjunction with my posts :(

It is also interesting how 'dung' and 'poo' are seen as words that "rachet up the verbage" and thus "run the risk of the Violations and Penalties". Meanwhile others can use words like "bull-shit" to comment my posts, and it is apparently just fine. I do have a feeling this has turned to some sort of a witch hunt, and that is not too cool :( Time for me to move on.
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caranorn
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Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:30 am

Jarkko wrote:Just out of curiosity, where did you see this name-calling? I find it "interesting" how tantrums about breaking the rules and name-calling are thrown around, especially in conjunction with my posts :(

It is also interesting how 'dung' and 'poo' are seen as words that "rachet up the verbage" and thus "run the risk of the Violations and Penalties". Meanwhile others can use words like "bull-shit" to comment my posts, and it is apparently just fine. I do have a feeling this has turned to some sort of a witch hunt, and that is not too cool :( Time for me to move on.


Lets say not name-calling exactly just attacks on other players and/or testers who didn't see things the way you do. For instance the question whether any of the testers have actually played the game (I'm not a beta for RoP, so not directly concerned), or that if I (yes that was directed at me) see something I see it wrongly. It's just the type of language that won't improve our dialogue. You should assume good faith with others, just as we have (and still do) assume good faith with you...

As to the "poo" turning to "shit" (I'd say bull-poo and bull-shit are one and the same, and I literally deal in shit (14 horses') every day, so I know ;-) ). You started that. Though I wouldn't consider either your wording or Generalisimo's (iirc) reply offensive, I believe we Europeans are used to much harsher language than some I'd say oversensitive people in the US. Actually, I'd interprete your use of the word "poo" rather than "shit" as an attempt to avert insult, then again it might have been a rather silly attempt at political correctness. The best I feel would be to drop that part of the discussion and continue in an adult and respectful manner, that is everyone do so...

I also hope this is my last post involving "poo", it feels like I'm back in Kindergarten :-D ...

Edit: Just to be on the safe side, no offense meant to anyone with this post, if I want to insult I'll either be much more direct, or much more subtle ;-) ...
Marc aka Caran...

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Jarkko
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Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:45 am

Thank you Caranorn, good post and quite enlightening :) I've used "poo" as a humorous word, apparently the humour hasn't been too good as it has been seen (at least in this context) as a rude word :bonk: I know now I shall avoid that in the future :)
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Gray_Lensman
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Jarkko
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Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:37 am

Gray,you are the most political correct person I've ever met, to claim "this is poo" is a similar infraction as "f*** you" (which was the issue last summer you are refering to) :) Could there be a slight chance there is some other "overreacting" here too? ;)
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lodilefty
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Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:50 am

caranorn wrote:<snip>
And yes, I believe there are some problems with the randomisation of siege resolution. Sometimes places seem to fall without reason, sometimes they hold out far too long. But we've been told this will be looked at and I'm sure it would have been looked at even without name calling...


Several new parameters, and adjustments to parameters, and new 'code' have been added in patch 1.02 to address this, but Sieges [in all AGEOD games] is an ongoing project. It is slow going, as we need a large number of 'results' to evaluate the changes.

We could benefit from any saved games demonstrating 'undesirable results'.
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Mickey3D
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Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:51 pm

elxaime wrote:I like the SYW era, but have held off purchasing ROP mainly because I am afraid it will follow the well-worn path of ACW, another potentially great game that misses due to neglect of the PBEM side of things.


I understand the limitation here being that AGEOD is not some giant company with huge resources. But the above is like telling someone whose car still won't run that they should give the auto repair shop credit for all the work they have done


I'm not answering your posts as a ROP player (I haven't bought it yet) but as AACW player : qualifying the PBEM as "neglected" is for me an overstatement. There is place for improvement but PBEM is giving its share of enjoyement and thrill to players and after three years of continuous improvement you can't say it's a "car that won't run" :wacko:

Also, a few notes on your other comments :

The Union suffers from a variety of "lose 10 morale unless you do this" idiot rules, resulting in being in an early hole of 30-40 morale points.


These rules are questionable (some players prefer to be free to choose their strategy) but they try to force Union players in being aggressive at beginning of the game. Without them any intelligent northern player will wait for his army to be powerful enough and overrun South... not very exciting ;)

Moreover, I think the loss can be reduced to 10 NM (or even 0 with a little bit of luck) if northern player is a little bit imaginative.

With its huge morale edge, the CSA easily mass recruits


Yes but CSA is limited by war supply and even the highest CSA recruiting option will not bring a lot more recuitement points than the medium USA option.

and the morale (and VP) edge usually lead to early foreign intervention.


:confused: I only see once the CSA player being a few points from foreign intervention. NM and VP may bring at most two FI points per turn. It means 50 turns (2 years) if really lucky (ok I'm not taken into account other political options and events).


Slower replacement of Union losses due to the built-in game replacement rule mean a higher risk of losing morale, even if you win a battle, due to element losses.

With version 1.15 morale loss in combat is more unpredictable than with earlier patch. But one thing that every experienced players will tell you is to avoid combat if your troops are weary. And that seems pretty in line with reality.

Your naval edge is less, since amphibious landings are set up so that you telegraph your punches, leading to Omaha Beach style losses if you try and take any but the most remote undefended areas. Speaking of Omaha Beach, CSA bombardment easily shreds any Union navy ships that come near shore, ocean or river.

Amphibious landing is not very well modelized but the other option would be to allow landing in the same turn (like in WIA). This would let the CSA without defense against deep punch into the land from northern player : US lands on first turn and in the subsequent turn he move inward before any southern force can reach the landing zone.

Meanwhile, the northern states are blanketed with CSA partisans and Texas Rangers roam Pennsylvania.

Totally agree with you this is a weakness and it has been reported several times in the forum. But cutting railroads in the Michigan, Wisconsin or Pennsylvania will never make CSA player win the game.

I understand there are counters, but as I read Union Player PBEM strategies, it seems the only way to advance is to play the game as you would Starcraft; e.g. full mobilization of the Union in April 1861, trying to zerg the Confederacy with sheer numbers of militia while accepting a paper money/inflation regime worthy of the Weimar Republic.

:)

Have a look to SVF (Struggle for a Vast Future) mod that is trying to take into account this problem.

I refuse to buy ROP if it means that, in order to enjoy a balanced PBEM game, I have to mod the game myself.

What is a balanced game ? Give both players the same chance to win the war ? I'm afraid that you can't do this without twisting the game in such a way that it becomes really unhistorical.

But I agree that in AACW the way victory points are afforded could have been improved in order to allow the southern player to win the game even if he loses the war but, in the process, he managed to do better than history.

As this is a Rise of Prussia thread, I propose you to send me a PM if you want to answer me instead of "polluting" it with AACW stuff.

By the way I'm open to a PBEM with you if you are interested.

elxaime
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Hmm

Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:35 pm

Gray_Lensman wrote:Very good question. I wonder about that myself since I was given the impression that there were more than a handful of modders that were objecting to all the AACW update patches via PMs to "official" AGEod. (i.e. not directly to me). I have no reason to believe that they didn't exist but rather they did not pursue their MODs once they had what they complained so often about. To Bigus and Clovis credit, they have managed to at least pursue the AACW Modding capabilities after the v1.15 legacy patch.


This is my last post in this thread, since I didn't mean to hijack a ROP thread into an ACW thread. BUT, this answer above deserves one last question!

Q: Since ACW patching was stopped at 1:15 for benefit of modders, and since there have been little to no mods (besides SVF) would AGEOD reverse its decision and start updating ACW again? It seems like there is no reason to halt updating for modders when there are no modders! :D

Specifically, this would allow inclusion of some of the fine work of SVF mod without having to address the installation issues that seem to be dogging that mod.

Thanks in advance for any answer.

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Gray_Lensman
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W.Barksdale
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Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:29 am

Okay. I cracked. I'm going to buy it!
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Gray_Lensman
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andatiep
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Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:24 am

Gray_Lensman wrote:Actually, now that it's out, and I've had a better look at it exploring the threads, I think I'll acquire it myself, just to explore the new User Interface and Event syntax enhancements. :thumbsup: (obviously more of a "nuts and bolts" reason. :D )


Yes... it bring a lot of new ideas for an AACW2 :) .
In fact, you can't do without a ROP install' if you want to be always on the top of the AACW inputs. And we defenetly need a top Gray for AACW2.
You didn't know but actually you had no choice to buy it or not ;)
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Sat May 01, 2010 2:58 am

I'll tell you why I have not posted lately. It's a long game and I've been playing it (and I went to hawaii for 2 weeks). Also there is a paradox forum.

:)
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And the other followed "Harry"
In the Light Horse' foremost squad.
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Could do naught else but REBEL.

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ird
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Sun May 02, 2010 8:35 pm

I'm pondering getting RoP - I already own the other AGEOD games with this engine. I've been following the forums and wonder whether the new patch has sorted out the problems that the AI seemed to be having mounting a cohesive attack with a large army. Can anyone let me know please.

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Carnium
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Sun May 02, 2010 8:49 pm

ird wrote:I'm pondering getting RoP - I already own the other AGEOD games with this engine. I've been following the forums and wonder whether the new patch has sorted out the problems that the AI seemed to be having mounting a cohesive attack with a large army. Can anyone let me know please.

As a beta tester I can confirm that this has been fixed. MANY new fixes and improvements will follow soon :thumbsup:
Look at this truly 7YW battle I had yesterday. Sweet isn't it :D
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Clovis
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Sun May 02, 2010 8:49 pm

ird wrote:I'm pondering getting RoP - I already own the other AGEOD games with this engine. I've been following the forums and wonder whether the new patch has sorted out the problems that the AI seemed to be having mounting a cohesive attack with a large army. Can anyone let me know please.



Soon... ;)
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ird
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Sun May 02, 2010 9:32 pm

Thanks Carnium. Can't open your picture for some reason tho. Looks like I will be making a purchase very soon.....

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Carnium
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Sun May 02, 2010 10:14 pm

ird wrote:Thanks Carnium. Can't open your picture for some reason tho. Looks like I will be making a purchase very soon.....

I have uploaded the picture to another hosting service, hopefully you can see it now :thumbsup:

ird
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Mon May 03, 2010 10:10 pm

I can see it now. Thanks.

FM WarB
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Mon May 03, 2010 11:14 pm

I certainly respect all the effort that has gone into ACW, but no better example of "NCP Syndrome" is needed than that ACW becomes the topic here.

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squarian
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Mon May 03, 2010 11:46 pm

FM WarB wrote:I certainly respect all the effort that has gone into ACW, but no better example of "NCP Syndrome" is needed than that ACW becomes the topic here.


Nicely put. :thumbsup:

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Gray_Lensman
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FM WarB
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Tue May 04, 2010 1:29 am

Gray,
NCP has suffered from a lack of a volunteer with the time, patience, historical knowlege, dedication and people skills that you posess. Lofifly has done a fine job with WIA, but does he have the time to prevent ROP from becoming the dead end that NCP has become?
That is the question about NCP syndrome, I beleive.
Congratulations on the nuptuals.

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Gray_Lensman
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kayapo
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Sat May 08, 2010 10:27 pm

sergentboetch wrote:Juste pour rappeler à certains "râleurs" que si Ageod n'existait pas, il faudrait se contenter des jeux de stratégie en temps réel ( :p leure :) et autres wargames tout nul qu'on peut trouver à micromania ou "il faut cliquer de partout très vite"... Ou bien de jeux abscons, ou tu déplaces des petits symboles Otan, comme en 1980, pour les profs d'histoire contrariés et tout ceux qui aiment se taper des règles de 120 pages et lancer 3 dés 12 et 4 dés 6 - le facteur terrain + 1 dés 20 comme ça !! :blink:
Bref pour moi c'est un compromis parfait pour ceux qui aiment réfléchir et jouer, ça me rappel la Fac et le temps passé sur les jeux Talonsoft (je sais ce que certains "puristes" me diront...). Concernant ROP, certes il n'est pas parfait, certes l'IA n'est peut être pas "formidable" (qui connait des IA parfaites ??) certes certes, mais bon moi j'ai bcp aimé ACW et WIA, sur lesquelles j'ai passé bcp d'heures, même si là aussi l'IA m'a parfois agacé...
En plus j'ai jamais vue d'équipe qui assure un tel SAV et autant de patch (il y en a encore pour ACW !!) quant on voit ce qu'est devenu le marché des jeux vidéo, la pauvreté des jeux, leurs prix etc... Moi je m'emrerveille que des gens comme AGEOD existe encore, alors il faut les soutenir et les encourager plutôt que de pinailler parce que tel dragons devrait avoir le revers de veste vert et que dans le jeux il est bleu, ce qui historiquement est impossible, car selon la doctrine en vigueur patati patata ...
Je suis pour l'historicité, mais à certains degré j'appel ça des TOC :D ...

Bref continuez !!


Je suis entièrement d'accord.

elxaime wrote:Q: Since ACW patching was stopped at 1:15 for benefit of modders...


It is my understanding that ACW patching stoped for the benefit of all people that like playing AGEOD games. There is only so much time and resources that a small company like AGEOD can pull into one single title before they go bankrupt. I also feel they did this in a very elegant way, even making the fans part of the whole decision. :thumbsup:

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Clovis
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Sat May 08, 2010 10:30 pm

Future Austrian AI

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Gray_Lensman
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Pocus
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Mon May 10, 2010 8:12 am

An AACW public beta 'code upgrade' only will be out soon. No tweaks in historical data & such.
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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