Why VGN crush Victoria

[tagwyn]

A: I prefer to judge a game by its whole content, not just a map i.e. WWI, sorry Luca. t apy:

[McNaughton]

I believe that this thread is becoming devisive. Also, does not seem to be positively natured either. Best to end the back and forward discussions on quality of either released or un-released games.

[Thjan]

I'm sorry to say that somehow but I'll pass on Vainglory for sure as long as the map is in such a poor resolution. Seriously, this looks ugly like hell compared to AACW for example.

Talking about which game will crush who is a bit stupid, they have different focuses and both will be great.

[Rafiki]

Only time will tell how either game turns out, but I have every belief that there is room in the world for two games dealing with the Victorian era

[Generalisimo]

Only time will tell how either game turns out, but I have every belief that there is room in the world for two games dealing with the Victorian era

I completelly agree... and we, wargamers, should support both so we have more options to choose from!

[McNaughton]

I'm sorry to say that somehow but I'll pass on Vainglory for sure as long as the map is in such a poor resolution. Seriously, this looks ugly like hell compared to AACW for example.

Talking about which game will crush who is a bit stupid, they have different focuses and both will be great.

Some of the best strategy games I have played are the most ugliest, some of the worst games are the prettiest. Also, looking at a static screenshot is a lot different than seeing the game in full motion and animation.

[Adlertag]

I completelly agree... and we, wargamers, should support both so we have more options to choose from!

Exactly, but if there is a room to play or support both games, many players won't be able to buy both so in the end, having 2 nearly similar games on the same "niche" will obviously lower their own sale potential. And knowing the ever critical financial health of small game companies, the challenge to make an acclaimed game is even increased...

[Generalisimo]

Exactly, but if there is a room to play or support both games, many players won't be able to buy both so in the end, having 2 nearly similar games on the same "niche" will obviously lower their own sale potential. And knowing the ever critical financial health of small game companies, the challenge to make an acclaimed game is even increased...

I don't think so, because even from the definition of each game, they are different. One is TURN BASED and the other one is REAL TIME... that's a HUGE difference on its own.
There are a LOT of people that just hate real time strategy games... and exactly the same happens in the other side.
Although they cover the same period, they are different games from the very foundations of them... its like comparing Pax Romana and Rome Total War and say "I can only play one of them because both are about Rome"...

[Adlertag]

I don't think so, because even from the definition of each game, they are different. One is TURN BASED and the other one is REAL TIME... that's a HUGE difference on its own.
There are a LOT of people that just hate real time strategy games... and exactly the same happens in the other side.
Although they cover the same period, they are different games from the very foundations of them... its like comparing Pax Romana and Rome Total War and say "I can only play one of them because both are about Rome"...

And there is also a huge contingent of players who will accomodate themselves with a good game even if the gameplay system (TBS or RT) is at the opposite of their intimate preference and sometimes because the market has only one such game to offer.
I don't think the majority of wargamers won't forbid themselves to buy a good game even if based on the alternative system (at least for me, this won't prevent me to buy such game).
So if both "same-context" games are good and attractive, a logical dispersal of sales will occur because you won't prevent a competition between both games...again, if both are good

Now, hoping one of the 2 will be bad is not what I suggested.

[Generalisimo]

And there is also a huge contingent of players who will accomodate themselves with a good game even if the gameplay system (TBS or RT) is at the opposite of their intimate preference and sometimes because the market has only one such game to offer.
I don't think the majority of wargamers won't forbid themselves to buy a good game even if based on the alternative system (at least for me, this won't prevent me to buy such game).
So if both "same-context" games are good and attractive, a logical dispersal of sales will occur because you won't prevent a competition between both games...again, if both are good

Now, hoping one of the 2 will be bad is not what I suggested.

Well, so, now we have identified three posible customer groups:
the ones that love RTS -> will buy Vicky2
the ones that love TBS -> will buy VGN
the ones that do not care and just want to play -> 2 groups:
---A will buy both if they like the period
---B will buy one of them if they do not have enough money

So, we should focus only on convincing the ones from the third-B group to buy VGN if they just can't afford to buy both...


But IMHO, don't overstimate the "power" on the decision to buy a game or not when dealing with the epic battle "RT vs TB"
I have met a lot of people that will just NOT play a game because it is TB... and exactly the other way around, people that will not play a game because it is RT...

[caranorn]

But IMHO, don't overstimate the "power" on the decision to buy a game or not when dealing with the epic battle "RT vs TB"
I have met a lot of people that will just NOT play a game because it is TB... and exactly the other way around, people that will not play a game because it is RT...

Absolutely. I tend to play so called RT games when there is no better (aka TB) alternative available. So I bought Vicky I back then, but I'm unlikely to buy Vicky II when it comes out as there will be Vainglory. Now that won't mean I absolutely won't buy Vicky II, just that it's unlikely...

[Adlertag]

Absolutely. I tend to play so called RT games when there is no better (aka TB) alternative available.

That's exactly what I said at the beginning of my post.

And we shoudn't also underestimate the fact that the first game released will also create the first appeal and then the first sales and even if the second one is good, some gamers won't be able to spend the extra money to buy the second one.

I still think that above the debate RT vs TB, the basic law of the market will be the same like on other sectors : more offers = more dispersal of sales.

[Generalisimo]

I still think that above the debate RT vs TB, the basic law of the market will be the same like on other sectors : more offers = more dispersal of sales.

Well, both games are already confirmed... so, there is nothing we can do about it... there will be two games about the Victorian period with different features each one.

[Adlertag]

Well, both games are already confirmed... so, there is nothing we can do about it... there will be two games about the Victorian period with different features each one.

To clear up my comments above :
Now the official announcement about Paradox acquiring Ageod is done (knowing about the discussions since a long time), I can say that since the first informations about the development of Victoria 2 were revealed in August, I was very (and still) puzzled about the future success of both games as they are more close to each other than we may think.

I sincerely hope there will be a room for the two games but I'm not absolutely sure that Paradox did not make a mistake when launching Victoria 2 project after and in parallel to VGN (after all, it seems that even Fredrik and Johan were not on the same wavelenght at the beginning of Vic2 story...).

[Anguille]

This is going to be weird...

[yoshino]

I DEFINITELY support AGEOD and your polite engine games than paradox's.
Hope your new business way well.

[Le Ricain]

Judging by Paradox's confusing and possibly competing game release schedule, I would think that VGN and Vicky2 could both be released within a short time of each other.

For example:

HOI3 was released in August 2009 and Arsenal of Democracy, a HOI2 game, will be released in Q1 2010.

For the Glory, an EU2 game, was released in November 2009 and Heir to the Throne, an EU3 game, was released on December 15, 2009.

No reason that VGN and Vicky2 could not fit nicely into this system.

[Nial]

Well, I hated HOi3. Which was wierd since I loved all the previous incarnations. I have EU2 and 3 up to In Nominie. Am at this moment playing heir to the throne demo. And Im not that impressed. It's ok I guess. But it feels like just another add on. Not really enough new here to justify buying the complete game IMHO. Im also playing DA:O and have a Union campaign in AACW going. So I guess what Im saying is if they are both good? I'll get both. Though I tend to think I'll pass on Vicki2 since I wasn't all that thrilled with the first one.

Now I wonder? Will there even be a VGN?

[Rafiki]

Now I wonder? Will there even be a VGN?

Yes. If anything, today's news goes to strengthen my belief that we at some point in 2010 will be playing VGN, one and all

[Generalisimo]

Now I wonder? Will there even be a VGN?

You can count on that my friend.

[ancient seaman]

You can count on that my friend.

I hope so.After all it is time to change my all times favorite game of imperialism 1 with something new and good.Even better if its about the same period(more or less).
So i hope for the best even thought the news about paradox and ageod were somewhat discouraging.

[wulfhund]

Hey, TBH I have played paradox games for quite awhile now, a couple of years ago I decided to try BoA2 and loved it, picked up AACW and loved it even more and can safely say although I picked up all the paradox games I still played the AGEOD games much more.

I think it's great that you guys are now with Paradox, that being said, RoP is on their forums, where is VGN?

[Generalisimo]

I think it's great that you guys are now with Paradox, that being said, RoP is on their forums, where is VGN?

The next game in line to be released is ROP...

[Rafiki]

Hey, TBH I have played paradox games for quite awhile now, a couple of years ago I decided to try BoA2 and loved it, picked up AACW and loved it even more and can safely say although I picked up all the paradox games I still played the AGEOD games much more.

I think it's great that you guys are now with Paradox, that being said, RoP is on their forums, where is VGN?

It has to do with scheduling. You can start looing for RoP at the end of January, while VGN is currently in the works for the second half of 2010 (which is an estimate).

[Ian Coote]

Doesn't Paradox have Victoria 2 coming out ? I'll put my money on VGN never sees the light of day.

[caranorn]

Doesn't Paradox have Victoria 2 coming out ? I'll put my money on VGN never sees the light of day.

So far on the Ageod side everyone has said it will. I also assume at least RoP and VGN were explicitely dealt with in the contract between Paradox and Ageod, so I wouldn't worry about those two games seing the light...

But if you feel otherwise I'd sure take up your bet, could use some extra money :-P ...

[dduff442]

Given the advanced stage of development reached with VGN, I'm inclined to believe that it is Victoria 2 that will die a death.

[Pocus]

I would say (non educated guess, I don't have access to Johan secret logbook ) that Victoria II will be done before VGN... Is the game not planned for Q2?

[Andrelvis]

I would say (non educated guess, I don't have access to Johan secret logbook ) that Victoria II will be done before VGN... Is the game not planned for Q2?

If I remember correctly, Johan said it was going to be postponed.

[RELee]

Aw, heck! Y'all know ol' Johan. He won't commit to nothing.

"A patch is never late! Nor is it ever early. It arrives precisely when I mean it to do!"

Indeed.