Maybe it's time to move on...

[Pdubya64]

This is a tough subject to bring up for me, but I feel it needs to be said.

I have been part of the AACW community here since the beginning, and I must say that it has, for the most part, been a great experience. I love the game and AGEOD's support.

Having said that, based on events that have unfolded in the last year, I feel strongly that it is time to make one last comprehensive patch, if that is deemed necessary by AGEOD, and then freeze internal work and changes on AACW.

Why? Well, it doesn't take a psychologist to understand that what was once a vibrant and cooperative community has disintegrated into bickering and mud-slinging, with little feeling of agreement and harmony. I will admit that I voted not all that long ago to continue work to improve and patch AACW. I was somewhat conflicted about that decision at the time, and now, some months later, I am sure that I can no longer support that decision.

I haven't played a game or campaign since 2007 when I did my AAR. Part because I have a lot of other irons in the fire, part because there is always some new problem unearthed by the latest patch or patches. I am not here to point fingers, lay blame, or otherwise troll for responses. Anyone who has dealt with me here understands that isn't my style.

I just feel that it's time. Time to move on. Time to give the community a non-moving target so that the modders can do their thing without worrying about being compatible. Time to let AGEOD know that we are more interested in a AACW2 than AACW.

I don't expect everyone to agree with my point of view. But I feel strongly that the road we are going down will only hurt the community if it is allowed to continue.

No poll, but I would encourage everyone to comment.

[PhilThib]

I just feel that it's time. Time to move on. Time to give the community a non-moving target so that the modders can do their thing without worrying about being compatible. Time to let AGEOD know that we are more interested in a AACW2 than AACW.

I agree on this point too. I believe we should assemble a special team to build the AACW2 project, precise "in advance" what the game will have (and not have)...once it set, production may start.

Now I don't have time or resources in the AGEOD team right now, because we have 2 other important projects underway right now.

In the meanwhile, I was the first to advocate on the AACW freeze...

Let's wait for more opinion

[richfed]

I agree with your sentiments 100%, Pdubya64. I, too, voted to continue support, but the aftermath was hard to watch and completely counterproductive. But, hasn't the legacy patch already been announced?

[gchristie]

Given we are down a long, and admittedly bumpy road with the 1.14d/e patches, I submit that once work on the legacy patch is final, then support should freeze so that AGEOD and the rest of the team can move on.

That said, I'm impressed that the forum is as active as it is, given the age of AACW. Compare this with some other civil war game forums of similar age, and this one is still jumpin', especially in the AAR department. Though it has gotten a bit raucous.

Don't know if moving on to AACW2 will restore a more civil tone to the forum, but I remain hopeful.

Let us all lead by example, ladies and gentlemen.

[vonRocko]

I agree.I've been thinking this for awhile. I was to frightened to mention it.

[bburns9]

I also agree. I still play AACW regularly, and have enjoyed the support provided by Ageod and the community to enhance the game, but it's time to lock down the .exe. I also voted for continued support, but would now change my vote after gaining a better understanding of what is still moddable after a lock down.

BB

[biggp07]

Lets move on!

[squarian]

Obviously the broken AI needs to be fixed and this is underway with the latest patches. That point aside, there are no glaring errors in the game - the software works pretty well and the game design produces a challenging competition with a reasonable degree of historical plausibility. VGN and ROP will both attract and require attention - time to move them to the front of the shelf. I have no problems declaring AACW done; let it stand as a monument to the AGEOD team and a model for future wargame developers.

[Franciscus]

It is obvious that it is time to move on, and this in my mind is settled when PhilThib also agrees.
I did not vote in the famous "support" poll, and think that the mere existence of that poll is a direct consequence of the problems felt in this forum in the last few months.
I also hope that the eventual future development of an AACW2 does not suffer from the same problems. It is up to Ageod to find the main reasons for it and take the necessary measures to prevent future troubles.

Regards

[Generalisimo]

It is obvious that it is time to move on, and this in my mind is settled when PhilThib also agrees.
I did not vote in the famous "support" poll, and think that the mere existence of that poll is a direct consequence of the problems felt in this forum in the last few months.
I also hope that the eventual future development of an AACW2 does not suffer from the same problems. It is up to Ageod to find the main reasons for it and take the necessary measures to prevent future troubles.

Regards

This is starting to get weird ... I agree AGAIN!!!

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne]

Well, I joined into this grand experiment on the downside, but I enjoyed the ride. I don't think AACW has reached its full potential and it doesn't look like that's gonna change. I hope that the community can stick around and keep the game somewhat fresh. I don't plan on retiring from this game anytime soon. Once the legacy patch comes out, I might even feel confident enough to dip my toe into the PBEM arena.

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Mickey3D]

Agree, it's time to focus on new projects (perhaps an AACW2...).

I'd like to thank once again Ageod for the support they gave to players and all the modders for the tremendous job they accomplished.

[Generalisimo]

I have to agree AACW needs to be finalized in a legacy patch.

However, going forward, AGEod will have to figure out what their response is going to be as the database discrepancies continue to be reported in the various threads AFTER the finalized legacy patch is released.

As I see it, they only have 3 choices:

1.) Ignore the post... i.e. don't fix the reported new discrepancy and don't respond to the post either.
2.) Respond to the reported new discrepancy thanking the poster but informing him the game is finalized and nothing further is to be done unless there is a game crash bug.
3.) Continue to fix the reported discrepancies even though they have supposedly "finalized" it.

The first 2 are probably unacceptable from a public relations standpoint. So what do they do?

Read the posts every day and you will see that these discrepancy reports still continue to come in regardless of the game's supposed finished condition. This is not from any lax support but more from the enormity of the design of the database itself. It is virtually impossible for a small designer group to eliminate these types of discrepancies prior to a game's release thus the need for continual after release support. This doesn't even take into account discrepancies introduced when new features are added after the initial release. AACW2 will have the same issues when/if it is ever released.

Well, how many companies still continue to debug their games that are quite old?
Look at any "big company" out there... you can hardly get more than 1 or 2 patches... and that's all, the game is finished and now you need to wait for the new game/expansion to come in and fix the rest of the things.

Don't get me wrong, I will love to see any company continue to "fix" their games forever... but really, that's imposible.
So, sooner or later, you NEED to say "sorry guys, but this is as good as it gets, we are moving on for the next game".
Anyway, Pocus said that he will continue to fix CTDs as much as he can (when the AGE engine allows it)... and I do not know any other company that continue doing that on a 2 y/o release for free.

[Big Ideas]

Look I'm not sure what to write here. But my thoughts are you can continue to play the game after it is locked down. The game has gone through an incredible evolution since I bought my copy. Not only improvements in areas of historical accuracy but in new features like the replay for the guest player. What more be added anyways that shouldn't have the full treatment of AACW2? I would like to add my appreciation to the AGEod staff and Gray Lensman and the other volunteers that took their time and ideas to make the fantastic improvements this game has gone through. To test them and to release them on a regular basis. On to AACW2!!!

[Omnius]

I have yet to buy AACW because I won't buy a game that isn't finished to the Legacy form. Plus I'm waiting to see what kind of Christmas sale AGEOD will have. I wish I could find it in a store near me like Best Buy or GameStop, then my impulse would be to buy it regardless just because I wouldn't want to pass on it and then go back later and it was gone.

After playing the BoA2 demo I'm rather ambivalent to the AACW game system because it's rather stale in comparison to the newer AGEOD games. I really like the Rules of Engagement feature plus being able to order the landing of troops from transports just by selecting a target land area next to my naval endpoint while making my naval move plot. I really enjoyed BoA and am blown away with the improvement from it to BoA2 and now am just waiting for the Legacy form of that game to get finished up. Same with NCP as it looks great despite not having a Grand Campaign, something NCP2 must have.

The sooner AACW gets updated to the latest features of new AGEOD games the better!

[RELee]

Yes, time to move on.

[MFogal]

I joined in this community late, and have been taken aback by the hostile personal comments that seem to fly. There is one silver lining: people don't get mad about things they don't care about, so one way to interpret many of these postings is that a lot of people really care about improving this game.

In the "for what it's worth" category, I too support wrapping up AACW (after one last shot at debugging, maybe) and then move onto AACW2.

[Chaplain Lovejoy]

Freeze and move on.

Clarification we're talking about freezing the game's execution coding while the database can still be tweaked, right?

[arsan]

Freeze and move on.

Clarification we're talking about freezing the game's execution coding while the database can still be tweaked, right?

As mods of course. By anybody!
But i understand the talk is about no more "official tweaking" of .exe or DB.

[DaemoneIsos]

I love AGEOD. I bet I am not the only one here who daydreams about cutting loose and designing cool games for a living...

And I love AACW. It is without doubt the most impressive and engaging strategic wargame I have ever played.

I am very excited about the idea of AACW2. I will put money on the table right now if it will help. (I know that is just a drop in the production bucket, but maybe I am not the only one?)

/endgush

I urge you to note Gray's prophetic words below:

... This is not from any lax support but more from the enormity of the design of the database itself. It is virtually impossible for a small designer group to eliminate these types of discrepancies prior to a game's release thus the need for continual after release support. This doesn't even take into account discrepancies introduced when new features are added after the initial release. AACW2 will have the same issues when/if it is ever released.

These are points that need to be seriously considered up front, and Gray certainly has the experience to know. I urge the Phils to construct a system up front for the new game that makes such corrections easy to delegate and contribute to.

Let me know how I can help,

-D

PS: There are at least two other major new AGEOD releases ahead of AACW2, right?

[Queeg]

I haven't played a game or campaign since 2007 when I did my AAR. Part because I have a lot of other irons in the fire, part because there is always some new problem unearthed by the latest patch or patches.

AACW remains the greatest game I never play. Why? Because, virtually from the moment of its release, it has been a perpetual work in progress. I come back here from time to time, hoping to find that the game is finally "done," but it always seems that's there's some other grand revision in the works or some new bug to be squashed (almost always a bug introduced by the latest grand revision). This waiting game has been going on now for over two years.

This is an important issue and one I think AGEOD needs consider with all of its games. I love your vision and support. But sometimes you just to say what's done is done and move on.

[Ian Coote]

I also have to agree with Queeg here.This has to be my favourite game of all time, but I don't think I've ever played past Feb 62. Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate all the work thats been done to make this game better, but I think that after the next patch fixing known bugs, except for mods at players choice,maybe call it a day.

[Captain_Orso]

I got a late start into AACW, but because I forgot to install patch 1.14 after installing the game my first experience was without the patch. After installing 1.14 I found the differences to be a great improvement. I have no idea how much of a difference Gray's database changes have had on actually play other than ironing out bugs causing crashes -here's to you Gray - and making the feel of the game a better experience .

That being said, there are things that apparently cannot be changed in the game anymore because they would need to be changed in the engine. It sounds to me that the game has reached that point. If that is so, then it is time to take all the experience made with AACW1 and put it into AACW2 to make it into that what everybody has been wanting from AACW1.

Issues about the documentation aside, this game in itself is one of the is one of the best historical simulations I've ever heard of. It comes close to being able to take the things you've learned about the history of the ACW and put them to use in the game one-to-one. That is fantastic . If AACW2 improves on that and eases the game play a little, then I say on to Richmond! ... eh AACW2

[patryn8]

I've greatly like the support for the game not only from the devolopers and the community. It could go either way for me, but yes a finalized patch would be good then plans for AACW 2 could be in the works maybe, then the modding community could pick up from there modding and tweaking.