New official 1.14 patch

[Gray_Lensman]

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[MrT]

the magic of ctrl+f

[Colonel Dreux]

regarding Winder... I really don't think he commanded anything above the level of brigade and he was killed at the Seven Day's Battle August 9th, 1862.

Just because he has a picture, doesn't justify leaving him in the game if he does not meet the game historical design criteria. AGEod games and their reputation are built on historical accuracy NOT pretty pictures. Pretty pictures are just eye candy to enhance the underlying game design.

I have it in mind to replace Charles S. Winder with CSA general Martin L. Smith who currently is not in the game database, but was a West Pointer, who laid out and supervised the construction of Vicksburg's hilly defense.

My one quibble with this is that a lot of the western theatre Confederate generals who became division commanders weren't leading much of anything since they had fewer troops, etc...

... and better to have Winder in there with his pretty face than a faceless General Bee (the other Bee).

[Colonel Dreux]

Outstanding that you found these records, but there's a problem here... All these records refer to him here as indeed being a Division leader, but they are also all dated on the day he was killed. Kinda makes it hard to have him in the game, if he is made a division leader the same day he was killed.

Thanks for the feedback efforts... How the heck do you guys find the references so fast? It takes me several minutes just to download a volume's entire text to search thru and I've got a high-speed cable connection

The command of the division goes back to whenever Lee re-organized the AoNV after the Seven Days. Remember he couldn't form Corps, so he had to form "Wings". Jackson led one Wing, Longstreet the other. Winder took over Jackson's own personal division until a cannon ball tore his left arm off and pulverized the left side of torso at the beginning of Cedar Mountain which was only days or weeks after the reorganization.

Taliaferro (in the game too) was his subordinate and took over the division from Winder. Taliaferro was wounded days later and then William E. Starke commanded the division briefly during the Maryland campaign until mortally wounded at Antietam (another one who could be in the game possibly... highly thought of by Jackson and Lee).

Don't everyone laugh, but here's the order of battle at Cedar Mountain via Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedar_Mountain_Confederate_order_of_battle

[ShovelHead]

Outstanding that you found these records, but there's a problem here... All these records refer to him here as indeed being a Division leader, but they are also all dated on the day he was killed. Kinda makes it hard to have him in the game, if he is made a division leader the same day he was killed.

Thanks for the feedback efforts... How the heck do you guys find the references so fast? It takes me several minutes just to download a volume's entire text to search thru and I've got a high-speed cable connection

I use Guild Press CDROM.

O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME 15 [S# 15]
MAY 15--JUNE 17, 1862.--Operations in the Shenandoah Valley.
No. 84.--Report of Col. Samuel V. Fulkerson, Thirty-seventh Virginia Infantry, commanding Third Brigade, of operations May 24-25.

"I was also ordered to report to General Winder, who was already upon the ground.
I placed the Twenty-third and Thirty-seventh Virginia Volunteers in the position indicated, when General Winder ordered me to occupy a wooded hill to my left, in an adjoining field, with one regiment, which position he informed me the enemy were on the move to occupy. I at once ordered Colonel Warren, with the Tenth Virginia Volunteers, to take position on the hill, which he quickly did.
In a short time General Winder ordered me to place another regiment on the hill with the Tenth, when I ordered Major Williams to march the Thirty-seventh there, which he did with dispatch."

[Gray_Lensman]

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[ShovelHead]

Now back to the Guild Press CDROM... Is this online or is it a CDROM that can be ordered? If so, do you have a link? I recently bought what I thought was a CDROM version of the O.R. and it was pure junk. It had been scanned and run thru a graphic/text converter but very poorly converted.

Best resource I have purchased. Fully searchable, available here,

http://www.civilwaramerica.com/

The Civil War CD-ROM
Version 1.6

Quite possibly the most revolutionary — and popular — Civil War research tool currently on the market. It contains * All 127 volumes of the Official Records of the Civil War (sans indices) * Fox’s Regimental Losses * Dyer’s Compendium * Guide Index to the Official Records by National Archives historians *

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Le Ricain]

Outstanding that you found these records, but there's a problem here... All these records refer to him here as indeed being a Division leader, but they are also all dated on the day he was killed. Kinda makes it hard to have him in the game, if he is made a division leader the same day he was killed.

Thanks for the feedback efforts... How the heck do you guys find the references so fast? It takes me several minutes just to download a volume's entire text to search thru and I've got a high-speed cable connection

As General C S Winder was not promoted to the command of Jackson's Division posthumously, it should not matter to AACW that he died shortly after assuming command in RL. We have plenty of generals in the game (Jackson included) who are active long after their historic death dates.

To be fair you asked the forum to find evidence of Winder holding high command - it was found. You next asked for proof of this in the official record - it was also found. Now it appears that you are looking for evidence of how long he held the command before his death. It feels like the goal post just keeps moving on this one.

[GlobalExplorer]

Sorry that I have to ask this, but at the moment I am a bit lacking time.

Will there be a version that includes with the quick fix? Just because I want to start playing AACW with the final patch, so I can continue the savegames.

[rickd79]

For what its worth, Winder was in command of "Jackson's Division" for longer than just the Battle of Cedar mountain.

Here's the order of battle for the entire "Seven Days" battles June 25th 1862 - July 1st 1862:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Days_Confederate_order_of_battle

Granted, it was a more informal command structure at this point in time.

Having helped define the generals that were originally included in the game, I think the inclusion of Winder was to help set up a June 1862 scenario where both sides start off right before the Seven Days battles. This scenario never really materialized, but it would actually work much better now that the regions around Richmond have been adjusted in the new patch. (You would be able to recreate the Federal division of forces on each side of the Chickahominy, and form a strategy like Lee did where you can strike one side or the other)

Having Winder in the game is roughly the same as having Lyon in the game out West. Who knows how he would have performed had he survived longer?

[Franciscus]

(...)
Not to mention allows me to refocus my spare time attention back 100% to the game itself.

Great news .

Would you then possibly reconsider reinstating Winder ? I like very much the guy .

Another related topic - not 1.14, this discussion really should go to the Help to improve AACW subforum- would you consider rethinking in the future "correcting" the place of arrival of the several generals in the game (meaning, the bunch of generals that appear all in Richmond/Washington - it still pains me everytime I see for example poor McCulloch reporting for duty in Virginia ) ?
I know that this is an old topic, I do not want to be annoying, and I confess, again, my absolute lack either of official sources or indeed time to search for accurate data - to me a simple modification like the one runyan did years ago in his mod would work - but maybe some one else could help now ? Or it is forever out of the question ?

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Gray_Lensman]

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[Daxil]

The command of the division goes back to whenever Lee re-organized the AoNV after the Seven Days. Remember he couldn't form Corps, so he had to form "Wings". Jackson led one Wing, Longstreet the other. Winder took over Jackson's own personal division until a cannon ball tore his left arm off and pulverized the left side of torso at the beginning of Cedar Mountain which was only days or weeks after the reorganization.

Taliaferro (in the game too) was his subordinate and took over the division from Winder. Taliaferro was wounded days later and then William E. Starke commanded the division briefly during the Maryland campaign until mortally wounded at Antietam (another one who could be in the game possibly... highly thought of by Jackson and Lee).

Don't everyone laugh, but here's the order of battle at Cedar Mountain via Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedar_Mountain_Confederate_order_of_battle

I guess they didn't quite grasp the concept that the generals shouldn't be in the firing line yet.

Then again, hearing about Patton driving through minefields as an example to his tankers maybe they never did.

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Eugene Carr]

... and better to have Winder in there with his pretty face than a faceless General Bee (the other Bee).

courtesy of Nikel he isn't



See
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=5296

S!

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Gray_Lensman]

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[GlobalExplorer]

Also, Quickfixes do not affect savegames. They can be applied after a scenario is initiated, but you have to exit the game and reenter to see most of the changes, especially text based changes such as tooltips.

Good! That's all I wanted to know ..

[Le Ricain]

Quite true and already realized by me



Only to the extent that I was trying to find the absolute BEST date to use for his (Winder's) new correct appearance. FYI, It is not an uncommon practice for me to "dig" much like an investigative reporter doing an interview in order to find the best facts to use for AACW file rework. Normally, it's done in the AACW beta forums and you don't see it, but ShovelHead was doing such a "Super" not to mention "FAST" job responding with references to Winder in the "official records" link above, that I kept "pushing" for just that extra little bit more info, which he outstandingly provided above.

Notice that he accordingly came up with May 15th 1862 in lieu of August 9th 1862 after this little bit of extra "digging" effort. I rest my case.

Rereading your post no 65, I stand corrected.

[Gray_Lensman]

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[ShovelHead]

The command of the division goes back to whenever Lee re-organized the AoNV after the Seven Days. Remember he couldn't form Corps, so he had to form "Wings". Jackson led one Wing, Longstreet the other. Winder took over Jackson's own personal division until a cannon ball tore his left arm off and pulverized the left side of torso at the beginning of Cedar Mountain which was only days or weeks after the reorganization.

From Winder's own report he is officially commanding 1st Brigade and receiving orders from Jackson. He does issue orders to another of Jackson's brigades, Colonel Fulkerson, commanding Third Brigade, but this seems to be a very ad-hoc command structure at this time. He was leading Jackson's division at Cedar Run when he was killed, but officially he was commanding 1st Brigade.

O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME 15 [S# 15]
MAY 15--JUNE 17, 1862.--Operations in the Shenandoah Valley.
No.68.--Reports of Brig. Gen. Charles S. Winder, C. S. Army, commanding First Brigade, Jackson's Division, of operations May 23-June 9.

"...reports of the part taken in the operations of May 23, 24, and by this brigade...I then went forward to see General Jackson, and met a staff officer, with instructions to place the brigade under cover. I directed the batteries to take position in a field on the right of the road and the three leading regiments to be placed in a woods on the left....General Jackson sent for two companies of infantry as skirmishers. I directed two companies of the advance regiment (Thirty-third) to move forward, which was promptly done...Two companies of the Fifth Regiment (raised in Winchester) were then, by order of General Jackson, deployed as skirmishers, and the march continued toward Winchester...The enemy soon commenced to move by his right flank. Perceiving this, I ordered Colonel Fulkerson, commanding Third Brigade, who reported to me just at that time, to place a regiment on the left flank. Observing the same move on the part of the enemy, I sent two additional regiments there."

[Gray_Lensman]

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[caranorn]

Ad-hoc or not, this demonstrates that he was issuing orders to more than one brigade, which is basically a division command position so for game purposes I think it justifies using the May 15th, 1862 date instead of August 9th, 1862 for his reworked entry into the game... Previously, he was in the CSA 1861 Leaders group.... That was way too early which Runyan had correctly pointed out in the beta forums.

Actually I pointed that out two years ago, with the explanation why...

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=3785

;-)

[rattler01]

11.) Reworked 1861 USA Army in Virginia events. (Threaten Richmond)
a.) Must "threaten" Richmond with at least 10 or more units within 2 regions for at least 2 turns (not necessarily consecutive) or lose 10 National Morale.

A little new here, but to make sure units = elements? And do the 2 regions include Richmond area? Like would it have to be in a area like New Kent or will Williamsburg count?

[arsan]

No, i think units are units, not elements

[Gray_Lensman]

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[rattler01]

Not a code buff but I'm guessing all the regions you qouted count?

ListParams = $Albermale, VA|$Spotsylvania, VA|$Caroline, VA|$King and Queen, VA|$Louisa, VA|$Buckingham, VA|$Amherst, VA|$Appomatox, VA|$Henrico, VA|$Charles City, VA|$New Kent, VA|$Williamsburg, VA|$Prince George, VA|$Richmond, VA|$Surry, VA|$Waverly, VA|$Dinwiddie, VA|

And to be %100 clear a unit is what appears when I mouse over a Div? Weather it be a a battery, cav, Marines, or sharpshooters it all counts as 1? Or does making a Div make all those units count as 1 unit? And do wagons, Generals, or other support i.e. ballons count?

[enf91]

I'd say they have to be combat units. I doubt a military balloon would look too threatening to the Confederates. 1200 armed Yankees, yes. A supply train, no.