Manstein (USA) vs Runyan (CSA) Part 2

[Daxil]

This should be an interesting matchup. By now I think we have a pretty good grasp on what type of generals these two are. Hopefully they don't take offense, but Manstein appears to be a talented offensive general (just like his namesake) while Runyan's a more rounded general who occasionally is inactive and makes mistakes (see New Orleans disaster ). If I were to give them an AACW grade at this point, Runyan is a 3-3-3 general, while Manstein is a 4-4-1 general. Playing as the United States you are usually on the offensive. This should play into Manstein's hands, and he'll need it because he has a lot of ground to make up.

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[Daxil]

Manstein issues 8% war bonds
Manstein raises a one-time tax
Manstein proclaims full mobilization

Runyan prints paper money
Runyan raises exceptional taxes
Runyan calls for volunteers
Runyan proclaims full mobilization

The primary battle this turn is at Winchester Virginia. Both sides send fairly large cav screens into that city. The turn ends with Runyan in possession, Jeb Stuart being the trump card. Manstein does, however, capture Manassis and Manassis Depot on day nine. Inexplicably Runyan failed to destroy it.

Having been checked at Winchester, Manstein assumes a defensive posture stretching from Harpers Ferry down to Stafford Virginia. He is gathering his forces. He is also sending two divisions down to the coastal region. Manstein sends Burnside to Fort Pulaski off Savannah, Georgia. He is bombarded, 32 points of damage.

Runyan is sending Stonewall to reinforce Stuart at Winchester. He assumes a defensive posture in the other regions. He's gathering a reactionary force in North Carolina.


National Morale
CSA 96
USA 94

Combat Losses
CSA 150
USA 90

POW held by
CSA zero
USA zero

Victory Points
CSA -37
USA made 125

Points from Cities
CSA 33
USA 25

It's turn two in early March and 23 turns remain.

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[Daxil]

Manstein print paper money.

Runyan prints paper money.

John Magruder has engaged M Smith on the James River Peninsula and captures Hampton. Smith escapes to Fort Monroe largely unscathed.

In the coastal regions Manstein is advancing in land.

National Morale
CSA 95
USA 92

Combat Losses
CSA 150
USA 690

POW held by
CSA 0
USA 0

Victory Points
CSA -4.0
USA -100

Points from Cities
CSA 33
USA 25

It's turn three in late March and 22 turns remain.

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[Daxil]

Runyan prints paper money.

They are no major movements this turn, but Manstein is penetrating Runyan's lines and sending cav to his rear. Stuart has been dispatched to handle this problem. On the James Peninsula, Smith having escaped into Fort Monroe Magruder heads back towards Richmond.

On the coast at Savannah Manstein has sent a militia element inland to wreak havoc. Jacksonville Florida, a strategic point, falls to Manstein, raising Union morale.

National Morale
CSA 84
USA 102

Combat Losses
CSA 150
USA 690

POW held by
CSA zero
USA zero

Victory Points
CSA 19
USA -65

Points from Cities
CSA 29
USA 29

It's turn four in early April and 21 turns remain.

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[runyan99]

Yes I am looking forward to the next patch so that the cavalry cannot take cities. The current situation that invariably occurs in every game is lone cavalry regiments swarming all over the map across every state, cutting every rail line and occupying any empty city. This independent, unlimited range cavalry is a nuisance and not super realistic.

[Daxil]

Runyan prints paper money.

Virginia remains quiet, however to the south Runyan is futilely trying to Catch Manstein's cavalry elements.

Manstein is also sending cav elements out from Jacksonville Florida to capture cities and villages in that area. Three Union divisions have boarded John Dahlgren's fleet at Jacksonville and are heading North to Fort Pulaski.

National Morale
CSA 85
USA 102

Combat Losses
CSA 150
USA 690

POW held by
CSA zero
USA zero

Victory Points
CSA 48
USA -36

Points from Cities
CSA 29
USA 29

It's turn five in late April and 20 turns remain.

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[Manstein]

Yes I am looking forward to the next patch so that the cavalry cannot take cities. The current situation that invariably occurs in every game is lone cavalry regiments swarming all over the map across every state, cutting every rail line and occupying any empty city. This independent, unlimited range cavalry is a nuisance and not super realistic.

I´m agree with you, but I use all resources that I can and I remember to you that cavalry regiment were sent for you for cut my rail lines south from Richmond

[runyan99]

It's not personal. I understand you are playing the game we have got. It's not new. Jabberwock has done this to me before.

[Daxil]

Manstein calls for volunteers.

Runyan prints paper money.

In Virginia, Manstein has removed McClellan from Command and placed Irvin McDowell in charge. The Army of the Potomac begins moving forward into the hilly Clarke Virginia region. In North Carolina and Georgia Runyan's pursuing cav elements have caught Manstein's Raiders in some cases and destroyed them. Stuart is still somewhat comically chasing a cav element clear across North Carolina.

Off of Savannah, Georgia Hookers command is offloading and advancing on the city. Runyan has nothing but a token Garrison to oppose him. Manstein's cav elements continue to capture cities across the South.

National Morale
CSA 87
USA 102

Combat Losses
CSA 450
USA 1680

POW held by
CSA 400
USA zero

Victory Points
CSA 83
USA -7

Points from Cities
CSA 29
USA 29

It's turn six in early May and 19 turns remain.

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[runyan99]

The little yellow flag at Winchester is one of the big Virginia brigades I am raising. I held off for some time in recruiting this big brigade, because of all the cities in Virginia, I didn't want it to appear in Winchester. I may have to give up that city at any time, and the brigade could be annihilated very easily.

As a rule of thumb, you have to assume that the game will put reinforcements in the places you don't want them. Often I try to raise new units in states far from the front lines to prevent their premature destruction, but the recruiment options in this scenario are quite limited. In the end though, I decided to take the gamble and sure enough, it showed up in Winchester.

[Daxil]

Runyan prints paper money.

The supply depot in Lexington North Carolina has been destroyed by Manstein. This means all of Runyan's supplies will be constricted to Wilmington and Raleigh. Not devastating, but one of his bombers engines has gone out. In Virginia's Shenandoah Valley, a CSA supply train including some 12 pounders has been ambushed by Manstein's roving cav. The supply was able to retreat to Jackson's location, but Manstein captured the 12 pounders. He is sending them back to the union lines. The union arrival in force Southeast of Jackson's location prompts his withdrawal from Winchester to the Shenandoah Valley. Manstein consolidates his lines.

In Georgia, Savannah has fallen! After a brief skirmish the Garrison escaped West. Other cities inland are falling like flies to Manstein's roving cavalry elements.

National Morale
CSA 79
USA 117

Combat Losses
CSA 720
USA 1980

POW held by
CSA 1400
USA zero

Victory Points
CSA 102
USA 32

Points from Cities
CSA 25
USA 33

It's turn seven in late May and 18 turns remain.

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[runyan99]

At this point, Jackon's division and a half, plus the brigade forming at Winchester, are by my count occupying the attention of 10 Union divisions. Not a fancy Valley Campaign to this point, but effective nontheless. However, I'm worried that Keys may move into Shenandoah, or that Jackson may be surrounded, so I decide it is time to step back from Winchester.

In any case supplies are running out in Winchester.

Note to the scenario designer - the Confederacy has no food. You start with none or almost none, and the situation never gets better. Even corps stationed next to a region with a depot are starving in the field. The depot at Fredericksburg only two regions from Richmond never has any storage.

[bigus]

Note to the scenario designer - the Confederacy has no food. You start with none or almost none, and the situation never gets better. Even corps stationed next to a region with a depot are starving in the field. The depot at Fredericksburg only two regions from Richmond never has any storage.

I like to hear feedback but I'd like to wait until both games are complete before I can answer.

[Manstein]

Runyan is totally right about the food.

He doesn´t know, but when I played as CSA, I lost 4 full divisions because food lack, and I had very much train points, the railway lines and depots intact

[Daxil]

A storm has moved in over the Shenandoah Valley introducing an interesting variable into the saga unfolding. Runyan has a brigade at Winchester attempting to flee to the Shenandoah Valley before Manstein's Corps' arrive. Also, the elements that Manstein captured the previous turn-the 12 pounders, and a cav element-are still trying to get out of the valley just as Jackson's Corps is arriving. So, we have a little circular race- big group chasing small-group fleeing to big group chasing small-group fleeing to big group. Who will get where first?

The first answer is: Manstein's 12 pounders successfully evade Jackson, 82% chance. The cav element also successfully evades Jackson, 94% chance. They arrive in Clarke Virginia on day 14.

Now, will Armistead's Brigade survive? It will take them 14 days to get out of the Winchester region even with the hard-driving AP Hill in command; Manstein's main body will arrive on day eight. Evasion shall be put to the test!

In Richmond, Robert E. Lee has been activated.

In the coastal region, Hooker and Dahlgren are on the move again. This time they'll be running the forts of Charleston. To the south, Runyan is attempting to recapture Jacksonville, which is defended by the 1st Florida Brigade.

National Morale
CSA 81
USA 118

Combat Losses
CSA 720
USA 2010

POW held by
CSA 400
USA zero

Victory Points
CSA 127
USA 65

Points from Cities
CSA 25
USA 33

It's turn eight in early June and 17 turns remain.

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[bigus]

Runyan is totally right about the food.

He doesn´t know, but when I played as CSA, I lost 4 full divisions because food lack, and I had very much train points, the railway lines and depots intact

Fair enough.....
I wonder though...... how much the long range cavalry raids effects this? (by cutting supplies...etc)

I'm not sure what to think right now. I'll have to have a look at the AAR's and test a bit more. I might add supplies to the west portion of the map to reflect the supplies coming from the west.

How do you counter the effects of cavalry raids IMHO is the question.

Make it so cavalry suffer huge cohesion loss from moving in enemy territory?
The new cavalry rules coming in the next patch will help but won't stop them from cutting rail lines and thus supplies.

[runyan99]

How do you counter the effects of cavalry raids IMHO is the question.

IMHO you cannot. Later in the game you will see I place cavalry patrols along every rail region, but often times the raiding cavalry just retreats to the next region, is not engaged before the end of the turn, and cuts that region's line instead.

I'm working on increasing patrol values for cavalry in the next patch, but for 1.13b I don't see any solution. It is a big problem.

[Daxil]

Off topic here, but even worse are sharpshooters.. and Indians/Rangers! Too overpowered and way too elusive.

[bigus]

I'm working on increasing patrol values for cavalry in the next patch, but for 1.13b I don't see any solution. It is a big problem.

Interesting.
I like the idea of patrol but I also like the idea of increased cohesion/attrition loss for cavalry if moving in enemy territory. If this is even possible.

This probably brings back bad memories of the cohesion/attrition beta days.

[runyan99]

I'm planning on increasing attrition loss for cavalry, but I don't know how much it will help. Even low cohesion cavalry can keep moving, and a cav unit with zero cohesion can still cut a rail line. All I can do is make raiding cavalry less combat effective.

[bigus]

I'm planning on increasing attrition loss for cavalry, but I don't know how much it will help. Even low cohesion cavalry can keep moving, and a cav unit with zero cohesion can still cut a rail line. All I can do is make raiding cavalry less combat effective.

Edit: Sorry Runyan I did'nt see this.

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=14627

[Manstein]

The cavalry raids is a problem, but isn´t the reason for the few food that the CSA has at this scenario.

The CSA starves at this scenario without enemy cavalry raids. If the enemy does cavalry raids, cuts the railroads and burns strategic depots, then the CSA loses his forces turn to turn, and is only the 1862 year.

I as CSA built 17 divisiones and lost 4 by starve; it is about 25% from my forces and I had that purchase light industry at Virginia and N.Carolina, because I needed some food more.

That was my awful situation and I controlled all the rail lines (with enough train points) and almost all my start depots. As USA, I´m playing with great number of cavalry regiment destroying all the rear of CSA forces, burning his depots, destroying all his railroads and taking small cities (producting food) and burning his reserves; I think that Runyan must not have got not even for a ham sandwich.

[Daxil]

Runyan prints paper money.

On day eight, AP Hill evades the Union forces at Winchester, 51% chance. Runyan is moving Jackson South to the Augusta region, which is north of Charlottesville. Both sides are consolidating their lines in Virginia. Franklin Buchanan's fleet, including the CSS Virginia, has arrived in Richmond via Norfolk.

At Charleston, Dahlgren's fleet arrives in the bay taking 141 hits. The troops are preparing to offload to Fort Johnson, the southernmost Fort. Runyan has two divisions defending the city. At Jacksonville Walker has been repulsed.

National Morale
CSA 81
USA 118

Combat Losses
CSA 1140
USA 2220

POW held by
CSA 400
USA zero

Victory Points
CSA 152
USA 98

Points from Cities
CSA 24
USA 34

It's turn nine in late June and 16 turns remain.

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[bigus]

The cavalry raids is a problem, but isn´t the reason for the few food that the CSA has at this scenario.

The CSA starves at this scenario without enemy cavalry raids. If the enemy does cavalry raids, cuts the railroads and burns strategic depots, then the CSA loses his forces turn to turn, and is only the 1862 year.

I as CSA built 17 divisiones and lost 4 by starve; it is about 25% from my forces and I had that purchase light industry at Virginia and N.Carolina, because I needed some food more.

That was my awful situation and I controlled all the rail lines (with enough train points) and almost all my start depots. As USA, I´m playing with great number of cavalry regiment destroying all the rear of CSA forces, burning his depots, destroying all his railroads and taking small cities (producting food) and burning his reserves; I think that Runyan must not have got not even for a ham sandwich.

Sounds like I'll have to add much more supplies than I first thought.
Thanks for the feedback Runyan and Manstein.

[Daxil]

Manstein has raised exceptional taxes.
Manstein has called for volunteers.

Runyan prints paper money.
Runyan has raised a one-time tax.
Runyan has called for volunteers.

Things are heating up. Manstein is beginning to tighten the vise on Runyan. Columbus Georgia, a level four city with a depot pushing supplies forward south of Atlanta has fallen to Manstein's cav. Fort Johnson off of Charleston has fallen to Hooker. The United States Right Flank in Virginia is beginning to advance South, entering the regions vacated by Jackson.

Manstein's relentless cavalry assault has forced Runyan to permanently station elements all up and down the railroads extending from Wilmington to Richmond. The Union navy has placed a blockade on Richmond as well, forcing Franklin Buchanan's James Squadron to emerge from the city. A battle is set for next turn.

Following his capture of Fort Johnson, Hooker is advancing on Charleston. Runyan has placed Joe Johnston in command of its level V entrenchments. It appears there shall be a real fight for the first time in this scenario.


National Morale
CSA 79
USA 116

Combat Losses
CSA 2250
USA 2790

POW held by
CSA 400
USA 400

Victory Points
CSA 176
USA 142

Points from Cities
CSA 24
USA 34

It's turn 10 in early July and 15 turns remain.

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[runyan99]

Columbus might be a level 4 city, but it is worth 0 VPs. Only strategic cities are worth VPs. They are labeled with a slightly different color name.

[Daxil]

Manstein prints paper money.
Manstein issues 8% war bonds.

Franklin Buchanan was engaged by the US sixth Fleet in the James River off of Richmond on day one. There is a stiff battle, but with 3 to 1 odds Buchanan is forced to retreat to preserve his fleet. The blockade of Richmond continues. Its effects are being felt by Runyan's lines to the north. Both Longstreet and Jackson are extremely low on supplies. Runyan has been forced to continuously shuttle wagon's back and forth in an attempt to keep them supplied. Making matters worse, the Union lines are fully consolidated around the Confederate positions and are preparing to move forward. The target is Robert E. Lee's Center, which is entrenched at level V in the woods of the Culpepper, Virginia region. Leading the charge is William Franklin's Corps, but Keyes and Porter's Corps' are positioned to assist.

On day four Hooker arrives in Charleston and the two forces engage. The Union forces are fighting with a 10% penalty as Hooker is still only a one star general. Hooker's advancing lines are hammered by the Confederate artillery and one of his regiments is wiped out. Once within melee range he exchanges the favor and one of Johnston's militia regiments is destroyed. At the end of this day there is a draw, both sides bivouac for the tense evening.

Two days later Hooker opens up on the Confederate lines with his now well entrenched and positioned guns. Supported by Dahlgren's fleet, he unleashes a vicious fire which the Confederates can only meekly reply to. Two of the Confederate regiments are destroyed and Johnston, perhaps realizing his position as tenuous at best decides to retreat before the assault phase, abandoning some of his 20 pounders. After his forces coalesce somewhat in the Edisto region west of Charleston he begins marching them North, in an attempt to reach the opposite bank of the Santee River.

Charleston has fallen. Hooker was congratulated for his victory, but as yet is not promotable.

National Morale
CSA 70
USA 126

Combat Losses
CSA 6428
USA 7171

POW held by
CSA 400
USA 800

Victory Points
CSA 195
USA 116

Points from Cities
CSA 20
USA 38

It's turn 11 in late July and 14 turns remain.

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[runyan99]

Entrenched as he was, I was hoping for a better defensive showing from Johnston.

As shown, in Virginia, Longstreet's corps is already feeling the pinch from lack of supply, despite his position on a depot, and only two regions from Richmond.

[Daxil]

Runyan prints paper money.

There was a prisoner exchange this turn. Runyan receives 3000 returned prisoners. Manstein received 1000 return prisoners.

Manstein destroys the Columbus Depot.

William Franklin's Corps arrives in Culpepper Virginia on day five. Assisting him is Edwin Sumner's Corps. Marching to the sound of the guns is Thomas Jackson's CSA Corps. The battle lasts for several hours. Franklin rolls luck, 51-49. Both sides open up at a range of five, but the Confederates are well-positioned. Lee's 69 guns, an assortment of 20 and 10 pounders, inflict massive casualties on the advancing Union lines-210 hits! The assault phase is little better for Sumner. Another 170 hits convinces them to finally flee back to Manassis Junction. Although casualties are heavy on the Union side, all seven divisions involved contributed in so no one division was severely mauled. Most elements lose in the range of 10 to 20% strength. Jackson's assisting Taliaferro's Division took the brunt of the casualties for the Confederates, ironically. Still, it's only a 10% hit on total strength.

Further south, in the coastal regions, Hooker is advancing on Fort Sumner while Johnston continues retreating north. At Jacksonville, Runyan once again threw Walker against the brigade there and was repulsed.

Zooming out a bit we can see that Manstein's campaign is in dire straits. He lost match one 1148-566 - nearly 600 points. He probably needed a flawless match to defeat Runyan and seems to be moving at a bit of a slower pace than Runyan did. A defeat like Culpepper could be devastating

National Morale
CSA 72
USA 128

Combat Losses
CSA 12,173
USA 19,201

POW held by
CSA 500
USA 500

Victory Points
CSA 268
USA 179

Points from Cities
CSA 20
USA 38

It's turn 12 in early August and 13 turns remain.

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[runyan99]

That was obviously a good battle for me. The entire Virginia army marched to the guns, and my Rappahannock line held. That is exactly what I want.

In Florida, my plan to turn Walker into a kind of swamp fox to retake Jacksonville is turning out to be a failure, as his force is proving inadequate to the task.

In retrospect, now would have been a good time for Jackson to take another step back, and occupy the trenches along the rail line at Charlottesville. I didn't do that, but I will soon wish I had.