Great Game

[Krec]

I read about this game for awhile but i bought FOF first because of the tactical combat. I played FOF for alittle bit and while the tactical combat is pretty good the strategic map is just so big something just seems off. I then took another look at this game and decided to buy it. Although i have not yet played a whole lot i have been reading the forums and find myself thinking about this darn game all the time. There is something really good going on here with this design. This game has been well thought out. I am trying to get my mind around the whole enchilada. There are so many facets that must be thought out that i have not had this much fun with a game since.......ever. What a gem this has turned out to be. When i first started playing i thought the map had too much goin on, but now that i have had time to digest it , i understand the map and really like it. I am still learning stuff and trying to come up with a game plan for my first email game. I will wait for the next patch before giving that a go , in the mean time back to the forums for some more tips.

[Rondor]

All I can say is relax and take your time learning the wonderful depth of this game. The learning curve is steeper than many games but I feel along with so many others that the result is worth the effort and then some.

The journey is a big part of the fun in this game.

[ohms_law]

Very true

[Colonel Dreux]

I read about this game for awhile but i bought FOF first because of the tactical combat. I played FOF for alittle bit and while the tactical combat is pretty good the strategic map is just so big something just seems off. I then took another look at this game and decided to buy it. Although i have not yet played a whole lot i have been reading the forums and find myself thinking about this darn game all the time. There is something really good going on here with this design. This game has been well thought out. I am trying to get my mind around the whole enchilada. There are so many facets that must be thought out that i have not had this much fun with a game since.......ever. What a gem this has turned out to be. When i first started playing i thought the map had too much goin on, but now that i have had time to digest it , i understand the map and really like it. I am still learning stuff and trying to come up with a game plan for my first email game. I will wait for the next patch before giving that a go , in the mean time back to the forums for some more tips.

I played FoF as well... and preferred it at first because it was easier to play. Although I never figured out the battle tactics part and never played that aspect of the game. I was looking for something like Civil War Generals, which was an excellent game (wish I still had it).

The first time I played this game, right after purchasing it, I didn't get it. So ended up giving up on it for a while. Eventually I took a second look at it, found this forum, learned how to play and really got in to it. I think it is definitely better than FoF, although FoF has some nice things about it.

[GraniteStater]

Hope you've read Runyon's AACW 101 in the Strategy sub-forum. If you haven't, read it, even if you read nothing else.

The most important thing that he says is that what you need to do is put your generals and armies in a position so that they can win. A big, big part of that is the logistical aspect of the game - easily the most serious logistical game I've played in the military strategy category.

We have several threads on Supply, there's a recent one I started on Industrialization (c'mon guys, more feedback, I'm still scratching my head here!), and other important aspects of the game. There's a Search function available here on the forums.

Welcome to AACW!

[Rafiki]

As a general question to people who have recently started playing the game and who have found the learning curve to be steep: what made the learning curve steep? Are there any particular parts of the game that are less accessible than others? Any suggestions about what can be done to help new players in a better way?

[ohms_law]

what made the learning curve steep?

It's not so much that the learning curve is steep, as the game itself is understandable. The "issue" is that the game is simply dense. There's a lot to it. Individually, there's no aspects to the game that are difficult to understand, it's simply learning how to put everything together that makes things somewhat difficult at first.

The thing is, (and I seem to be fairly typical in this respect) the whole experience is enjoyable. That being the case, I don't see any reason to worry about it.

[GraniteStater]

It took me about ten starts/games to get a handle on Supply. Maybe I'm dense.

And I still don't completely understand Industrialization.

[MrT]

It's just that there is so many details to the game.. so much fineprint as it were. However without that this game wouldnt be what it is. Its just not a pickup and play game such as the total war series for example. The amount of time needed to learn the game far exceeds any other type of game that i have ever played on a computer.:-

• Industrialism
• Army strength indicators
• terrain effects on troops
• seasons of the year
• troop transport (so simple yet so damn important)
• supply
• how to effectivly use your NM & VP totals/bonuses
• recruitment/reinforcement
• in-depth stratagy choices

Normally in my experience at least a game only has 2 or 3 of those factors, yet this game has managed to incorporate nearly triple the amount of factors normally found yet still remain playable, given time and desire, which i find that this game encourages because you always feel you are just one step away from the masterstroke needed to be successful.
Its a great game for those that have the time, but your in a narrow market i think maybe - not sure about your sales figures or anything - more a historical realist market than a generic playing game (ie single sales will be strong but returning customers weak?). But the value for money is unbeatable with this series in my view, i've had this game a year and i still feel as thou i am learning new things everytime i play.

Regards

Mr T.

[GraniteStater]

My personal goal right now (and has been for a while) is to see, as the Union, if I can attain the same goals that were achieved historically by the Union by mid-June '62: Ft. Donelson, Nashville, Memphis, and New Orleans.

Haven't done it yet - damn AI keeps messin' wid me.

Although it seems like grabbing Richmond is just a tad too easy - seems like most people can do it by late '62.

[Krec]

good replys and i agree with all. what has a grip on me now is how i am going to organize my force structure. I am consantly thinking about it. i also would like to use the generals in the same div. that they commanded when i can and also in the same theater. This has me researching a bit , but thats half the fun. I know about 1/4 of the generals, so learning about the others is good stuff. thats it for now.

Krec

[cptcav]

As a general question to people who have recently started playing the game and who have found the learning curve to be steep: what made the learning curve steep? Are there any particular parts of the game that are less accessible than others? Any suggestions about what can be done to help new players in a better way?

The lack of a detailed manual was/is a hinderance for me; even the Wiki is lacking. However, this forum helps make up for this a whole lot. There are still many things that I do not understand about the game system; although, I have learned enough to do a pretty decent job at playing it.

The first thing that was daunting about the game is the amount of information available on the screen(s). But, with play, it becomes clear and is abundance of information appreciated.

Regards,
CptCav

[ohms_law]

...I can't say that I agree with that. The manual seems to be very detailed and comprehensive. What's missing from the manual?

[Jim-NC]

For me, it wasn't what was/wasn't in the manual, but how it was organized. I personally got lost in the manual (even after reading 3-4 times). And I got lost on the tutorial the first 2 times I played (I did not understand the game interface). I love the game, and greatly enjoy it. But it took a lot of trial and error to understand the game. I am not sure I even now understand all the mechanics. It is very detailed (which I love), but is very involved (maybe more involved than a lot of people can handle). Unlike a lot of games, you need to be a master of many trades: logistics, supply, movement, information gathering, spy, and of course combat. Any facet of which can take weeks of testing/learning to get correct.

As an example, in the 2nd PBEM tournament, I got a corps wasted because I did not understand the end game requirements. I took Memphis, but did not capture Corinth the same turn. My NM went to 140 (I needed 145 to win). My worthy opponent railed in his Army, and after 3 days of fighting, Thomas' entire command died.

Also, I still starve units to death (not like I did in the beginning), but at least 1 stack dies every game (starting in the 1861 campaign). I do not have a perfect understanding of supply yet. Maybe after another year of playing.

[count taaffe]

Hi Rafiki!

As a general question to people who have recently started playing the game and who have found the learning curve to be steep: what made the learning curve steep? Are there any particular parts of the game that are less accessible than others? Any suggestions about what can be done to help new players in a better way?

Good question . For me it always was and still is how to organize my army - this is IMHO the hardest part of the game. Sometimes it works and sometimes not - maybe I've missed something, but I still try to find out - of course with the manual at hand .

The other thing which I do not exactly understand is how supply is working.

However these things make the game so challenging and I really love it.

Compared to WW1 which I played before I must admit, that the game mechanics in WW1 were easier to understand - at least for me

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Rafiki]

What Gray_Lensman means to say ( ), is that he is wondering which details you miss from the manual, cptcav?

[GraniteStater]

Well, as someone who writes manuals for a living, take it as usability testing, GL. It's not a bad manual and there is a live tutorial, which is good, but, as an example, why am I scratching my head about Industrialization? I understand that in game dox, you don't want to spill all the beans, unlike regular doc't'n, but in my case, for example, it's not that I don't understand the mechanics of Indy, although I'm sure there's a detail or two I could use: it's that I don't grasp my incentive/reward/punishment matrix for the actions in this sphere. I know more now from playing, but...well, I think you see the point - why do I want to do this? What are my opportunity costs, etc.

Now, the game is a model. Anyone buying an ACW game should be aware of basic stuff, like North won, North mucho resources, etc. To some degree, the player's decision matrix should come from his awareness of the model, and a good model rewards players who are knowledgable about the territory (as in 'the map is not the territory') of the model's target universe.

But it would still be nice to see a statement in the manual about (a) the numbers in the flyover are per turn; (b) the player can go for Heavy Industry, but maybe later [I see no real incentive to go for more than Light, in my gaming, so far]; (c) some other examples, like the player needs to ensure that any formation not tied with apron strings to a supply source/point has a Supply Wagon [maybe such language is in the dox, I'm just illustrating].

All, in all, I'd give the dox/Help a solid B+, but there are some holes. Oh, AGE earned that grade from me; most game doc't'n is poor, at best.

Incidentally, I'm looking for a job -anyone looking for a senior writer or tech pubs manager?

[Gray_Lensman]

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[ohms_law]

By the way, what is "FOF"?

[soloswolf]

Forge of Freedom, another CW game.

[Chaplain Lovejoy]

My point is that there is more than enough information within the manual to get players up to speed with gameplay itself.

Indeed there is. So much so that I have to use a magnifying glass to read that tiny font!

[ohms_law]

Forge of Freedom, another CW game.

ah, thank you

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Big Muddy]

I have never read the manual, although I have skimmed through it. I just jumped in and learned by trial and error. Learned mostly from the forum and it's very knowledgeable and well informed players. I have never tried of AACW in over a year and a half.

[Chaplain Lovejoy]

If you read it as a PDF, you can enlarge the text to compensate for the aging eyeballs.

Irony is, I create/edit/copyfit a product in Real Life in both print and pdf formats so people can do just that. But old curmudgeon that I am, I prefer to hold a dead-tree product in my hand and read it in that format rather than reading lots of text on a computer screen. And I'm too cheap to print out 50+ pages of enlarged pdf on my printer!

[Krec]

the manual is fine, and the info povided with the patches is also fine. the game has so much depth that undrstanding it all from the start is most daunting. Trial and error is really the best way and to be truthful is that not how the war really was? So i look at it as a learning experience and as long as your playing the AI or someone with/about the same exp level i dont mind. Really a good game and the patching has been solid . ill take quality over flashy any day.

[Krec]

The more i play the more i realize that the game does a decent job of recreating the myriad of issues of organizing/supplying/training the armies of what was a fairly new country during a time when warfare was changing. I like the way the game starts with small division and over time expands to just a mess of units everywhere, or at least thats what my game looks like, lol. I have a heck of a time keeping track of what i got going on. I can only imagine what it was really like. The logistics in this game are very good. Still tryin to get a brown water blockade to form, i have enough elemets 10 . But still now luck. Other then that i am having a blast.

[Gray_Lensman]

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[kglorberau]

I agree with Krec. The updates and patching have been great. I just wish I knew what the hell to do to get better at this game!!! Just so much going on, and so much to remember........but it is addictive.

KgLorberau